Author Topic: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST  (Read 6395 times)

Phil W

Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« on: August 22, 2018, 01:33:20 pm »
The only one I'm aware of at present for a standard 24mm HTII type spindle is the Sugino OX series which in the UK are rare than rocking horse droppings.  Praxis have squeezed a 32 onto a 110BCD with a 30mm spindle (hence less choice/more cost of BB)   but still not low enough for me to duplicate the range of my triple.  FSA have dropped to a lower BCD to accommodate smaller rings but apparently only for the various pushfit standards, not for threaded frames.

If you start with a triple like a 4603 or 5703 you can just swap he middle ring for a 46t and ditch the larger one?

4603 is becoming hard to find. The replacement is a 4703, which in stock comes as a 53/39/30, it's 2am so I can't find enough info on 46t options that would replace the middle ring. But simply taking the big ring off wouldn't be ideal, as you'd have a 39/30. Better to get the M615 MTB 40/28 cranksets, and matching mech, which does work with a tiagra shifter, even tho Shimano claim otherwise. Dunno what would happen if you tried at a higher level tho. Also wouldn't work with di2, as you can't mix MTB and road mechs.

There's a reason my new bike is going to have the FSA SL-K modular cranksets in 46/30.

J

J


I run https://spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p2830/SPA-CYCLES-XD-2-Touring-Triple-Chainset-With-Stronglight-Zicral-Rings triple in 46/36/26; you can go down to 24 for the inner ring.  It works fine with a Shimano 5703 STI front mech.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2018, 03:10:08 pm »
I've no idea about wattage. It sounds like you've simply calculated that it should be too hard, rather than actually experienced that it is.

Really? In the last 12 months I have cycled my bike in The Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Switzerland, and within the next month will add Denmark, Sweden and Norway to that list. I've done plenty of hills on these rides, and walked up a lot of them.

Quote
Yeah but how much are you spending on flights to get to these hills which as we know you live quite far away from...?
Where are these uber steep hills near amsterdam because I've never seen them!

So, lets start with this hill in Belgium:



The ascent up to the highest point of Belgium, it's a long drawn out climb, the first time I did it I took well over 2 hours almost 3.

Then we can move on to two climbs I did on a 300km BRM back in April,




This short, punchy climb was in the first 30km or so of the ride, I walked my bike up it, over taken by the whole field.

A few km further on I hit this climb:




I walked up it, grateful that the shade of the trees meant I had some protection from the 30°C heat.

A bit further on, after lunch, this utter bitch of a climb resulted in me walking:



At the top there was a secret control, and one of the other riders asked me if I wanted to scratch with him. I said no, and continued on. I eventually completed the 305km in 21:06. 66 minutes over time. After a collision with a fly resulted in me losing my lunch, and not being able to eat. I did 150km on an empty stomach. I walked up hills, I rode on the aerobars on the flat, I had to raid a water tap on the side of a house for water at 2 in the morning. But I bloody well finished the distance.

So yes, there are climbs, and no I don't need to fly to get to them. A simple 2 hour train ride to Maastricht, and then a ride into Belgium is enough, tho there are plenty of climbs to be had in Limburg too, such as the Cauberg, which the first time I climbed it I had to walk a bit of it.

I haven't taken an airplane flight in over a decade.

Quote

Are there hills you have actually tried to get up and found it a struggle, or do you just like the idea of theoretically being able to get up anything that you hypothetically might encounter without exceeding your target wattage? Sounds like the latter.

Yes, I can give more examples if you want. Or are these enough for you to actually believe me when I say that I find it hard to pedal up hills even with my low 28/34 gear ?

If you want low gears go to SPA cycles

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s109p2002/SPA-CYCLES-XD-2-Touring-Triple-Chainset-with-TA-chainrings

I fitted one of these with a bar end for the front changer so I did not have index problems. Long cage cassette and a 12/30 cassette. But no matter how low the gears I still had to lift my fat arse up all the elevations.


Nice idea, I have one of those on my Brompton, except for the fact that now you're talking about moving away from the HTII bottom bracket that is likely to come with a stock bike, moving to JIS/Square taper, having to move away from STI, and having no chance if you want Di2. Sure some people will be ok doing that, but it ignores the basic premise that for a woman to be able to walk into a bike shop, buy a bike, and have it be low enough geared, the right size, on day 1. That isn't possible. Most men can walk into a bike shop, and find a bike that fits them and ride away with the bike. Most women can't.

So why is this an issue for an org like AUK? And why is it an issue for cycling in general.

Through twitter I discovered Emily Chappell's TCR attempt, she inspired me to go get a bike. So I toured a number of bike shops. In some I went in and they thought I'd walked into the wrong shop. Some I just got ignored, some they apologised they didn't have any bikes small enough, on the whole, I walked out with no bike, and felt particularly jaded. So I emailed Emily for advice, and she gave me lots of useful tips. The result is I built my own bike. It's a franken bike, mixing mtb parts, road parts, tri parts. If you ask Shimano the parts I am using will not work together. I've got 7000km on them so far, they work just fine, if you know what you're doing. As a result I can talk all day about compatibility, thread sizes, cable pull ratios, etc... It took me 3 months to get the parts together to assemble this bike. The only part I didn't do myself was build the wheels (these were built by Stephen Vis of red hook crit fame). The fact that I was able to roll out of Maastricht Youth Hostel on 26th of December, point my bike south and head off into the grey, and eventual rain and snow is because I ignored those saying I couldn't do it. I ignored those who seemed to not understand. I pushed my bike up the first climb listed above. I warmed myself up in a pub at the top, and then rode down the other side. I did 90km in horrible conditions on a bike I built myself. Because if I don't do it myself, no other fucker is. I am not your typical female cyclist.

When I tell people about my bike adventures the question I get is "who are you going with?" "noone" "but?" "noone else is crazy enough". Thing is I'd love to have some company on some of these trips. But the number of people willing to put up with the shit to get here is minimal, and finding them is even harder.

Until women can watch Marianna Vos win the TDF, all 21 stages of it, think "ooh, I wanna try that", walk into a bike shop on Monday morning, throw down 1000 of cycle to work money, and ride out with a bike that fits her, and she can get up the hills, even if it's grinding away at just fast enough to not fall over, until that is possible, the only women we're going to have in cycling are those who are so stubborn they will take no shit and ride despite others, not because of them, or those who have a partner who helps kick start them.

And this is why my rants about what women can buy is relevant to AUK. You can offer free entry to women, free massages at the end, and all you can eat chocolate cake at all the controls, but the result is that you won't get a noticeable increase in the number of women riding. Because it's so damn hard to buy a bike that fits, that can get up the hills, and is fun to ride.

I could rant about other aspects of cycling and audax that piss me off such as being asked by riders at Audax events if I'm there with my boyfriend... but I think they are just nit picks compared to the massive structural issues mentioned above.

And in all of this, the crazy thing is that once women find a way past all this shit that we have to put up with, we can meet the men on equal ground. Women like Sarah Hammond, and Lael Wilcox are absolutely brilliant. Sarah has twice now won the race so hard no man has ever won it, and Lael Wilcox's ride on TABR is the sort legends are made of. How many other Sarahs, and Laels are out there, but never get a chance to even try due to all the bloody gatekeeping?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2018, 03:42:24 pm »
in response to quixoticgeek it's not only women who struggle with finding low enough gears. i had to come up with a 45/30 chainset (combined with 11-36 cassette) myself to get me up the mountains and off-road tracks. i consider myself stronger than average rider and used the bottom gear a lot and even wished for lower sometimes. fwiw, even professional racers use 32x50 gear for climbing steep mountain tracks, there's no gear too low! equally, i've seen a group of four women finishing their first audax (the 300!) together in ~16h, all in good spirits and riding standard road bikes. there are just too many variables to generalise. things need to change for everyone, but until there is a critical mass of consumers nothing is going to happen. a bit of a chicken and egg.

Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2018, 03:52:33 pm »
I reckon the poor provisions for women in bikes and other cycling kit are – at least partly – down to the leadership of the companies supplying them.

If the companies are run by men*, and the products designed by men, then, surprise surprise, they're not going to be very good at catering to people who aren't men.  As more women get into cycling, they might well realise that they can profit from offering women's lines, but they won't really hit the mark because the people making the decisions ultimately have no experience in what's needed.

So this is all entangled with the institutional biases that exist in wider society.  What we can hope for, though, is that greater representation in the sport will force the industry to take women more seriously.  Like zigzag says, a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation.

* There are exceptions, of course :)

in response to quixoticgeek it's not only women who struggle with finding low enough gears. i had to come up with a 45/30 chainset (combined with 11-36 cassette) myself to get me up the mountains and off-road tracks. i consider myself stronger than average rider and used the bottom gear a lot and even wished for lower sometimes. fwiw, even professional racers use 32x50 gear for climbing steep mountain tracks, there's no gear too low! equally, i've seen a group of four women finishing their first audax (the 300!) together in ~16h, all in good spirits and riding standard road bikes. there are just too many variables to generalise. things need to change for everyone, but until there is a critical mass of consumers nothing is going to happen. a bit of a chicken and egg.

Likewise, I use a 50/34 chainset and 11-32 cassette, and often wish for lower gears.  I note that James Hayden had the same problem on the TCR, so I wonder when the bike industry will get its act together!

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2018, 04:16:36 pm »
I stay away for a few weeks while sorting out some Real Life stuff and this happens!  That was a read and a half, blimey!!

I reckon the poor provisions for women in bikes and other cycling kit are – at least partly – down to the leadership of the companies supplying them.

If the companies are run by men*, and the products designed by men, then, surprise surprise, they're not going to be very good at catering to people who aren't men.  As more women get into cycling, they might well realise that they can profit from offering women's lines, but they won't really hit the mark because the people making the decisions ultimately have no experience in what's needed.

So this is all entangled with the institutional biases that exist in wider society.  What we can hope for, though, is that greater representation in the sport will force the industry to take women more seriously.  Like zigzag says, a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation.

Bollocks*.

It's like this: Company A's product managers look at a range of products to launch each year, along with all the variants/sizes/etc.  They put a cost/revenue/=profit equation against each product line and sub-section of that product line.  The Sales/Marketing Director, in their limited** wisdom stacks all the profits in a spreadsheet and cherry picks the top ones down the list until they run out of the available development funds, as given by the Chief Finance Officer (or equivalent).  Therefore they decide to proceed with whatever makes most money now, as that will continue to make money in the future, and so the status quo is maintained.

A forward-thinking S/MD would also consider shaping new markets and providing — at a relative "loss" (i.e. smaller profit) — those items in order to seed the market.  That would include odd shapes, sizes and colours of things.  The industry*** is lacking those forward-thinkers.  I'm not going to say "it's because they're white" or "it's because they're men", because I think it's more to do with "that's how people are taught to make business decisions", as oft as not by their shareholders.  I've experienced the same attitude from both genders.

Seeding markets is a long-term strategy that may not pay dividends directly to those doing it, as the whole industry eventually takes the benefit.  And so it's quite a hard sell "upstairs".  Me, I have argued against pure-profit strategies with board members in the past (in non-cycling industries, but the principle's the same) and been given lines like "well, it's going to cost us money — shall I take it out of YOUR salary, then?!", and that can make it hard for people "downstairs" to take up the fight.

What I can say is that the Cambridge events that I run with my partner, we spend a lot of time before each one debating elements of equality and representation.  There's only so much we can do as mere organisers, but we do try to cater to a broad church.  And we do try.


* IMHO, sorry ;)
** I've found, in my not that extensive experience, that Sales and Marketing Directors are pure-numbers people and are relatively inured to the Bigger Picture and the Greater Good.
*** Most industries?
RRTY #6 done; #7 aborted and restarted.

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2018, 04:28:42 pm »
That would include odd shapes, sizes and colours of things.

For example, both my wife and her sister wanted an entry-level bike (each).  Both stipulated "NOT white" and "NOT pink".  Both are XXS or XS, depending on the brand.  That's a pretty tricky requirement, sub-£1000 — the fancier bikes come in carbon-like colours and look amazing ... and have a price tag to match.  Most of the entry-end of the market is a mix of white/pink/lilac/etc, with not much else besides.

Liv — Giant-for-women? — occasionally has something on sale that suits the requirement, but usually out of stock in the required size, and over the budget when not on sale.  Otherwise it's pretty tricky trying to find something appropriate from an on-spec walk-in, exactly as QG reported. 

And the only reason I'm involved is because I'm the family's seasoned-cyclist and know when being sold something that's out-of-spec.  I have on numerous occasions had to remind the sales-assistant that they're selling to the person I walked in with and not to me — almost exactly the mirror-image of what QG said, and just as uncomfortable ...

ps. FWIW, my current audax bike cost me under £500 in matte black and in my size in-store — I had no problem finding something for a six-foot male.  It's the five-foot-two females in my life who are finding it unnecessarily frustrating.
RRTY #6 done; #7 aborted and restarted.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2018, 04:32:12 pm »
And the only reason I'm involved is because I'm the family's seasoned-cyclist and know when being sold something that's out-of-spec.  I have on numerous occasions had to remind the sales-assistant that they're selling to the person I walked in with and not to me — almost exactly the mirror-image of what QG said, and just as uncomfortable ...

I've stopped going into bike shops with men. I ask a question, they reply to the man. Every single time. Even if the man says "I'm not a cyclist, talk to her".

J

PS I've also had similar experiences in tool shops, outdoor equipment stores, model train shops, etc...
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2018, 04:56:22 pm »
And the only reason I'm involved is because I'm the family's seasoned-cyclist and know when being sold something that's out-of-spec.  I have on numerous occasions had to remind the sales-assistant that they're selling to the person I walked in with and not to me — almost exactly the mirror-image of what QG said, and just as uncomfortable ...

I've stopped going into bike shops with men. I ask a question, they reply to the man. Every single time. Even if the man says "I'm not a cyclist, talk to her".

J

PS I've also had similar experiences in tool shops, outdoor equipment stores, model train shops, etc...

Me too!

Ordering online is SO nice cos you don't have to tolerate this crap!

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2018, 05:05:21 pm »
Just reposting this here, as it ended up on the "other side" of a thread-split:

I've stopped going into bike shops with men. I ask a question, they reply to the man. Every single time. Even if the man says "I'm not a cyclist, talk to her".

PS I've also had similar experiences in tool shops, outdoor equipment stores, model train shops, etc...

That's so bad that you've experienced that, but it seems common.  I've taken to walking away to look at shoes/hats/gloves/anything while the spiel takes place to avoid that, "there, but not there" ...
RRTY #6 done; #7 aborted and restarted.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2018, 05:09:15 pm »
Me too!

Ordering online is SO nice cos you don't have to tolerate this crap!

I wrote about this on my blog, back when GCN did a thing about is the local bike shop something to protect.

http://b.42q.eu/2018/02/23/local-bike-shops/

Why I do a 30km round trip to visit a bike shop, when I'm in the European capital of cycling...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2018, 05:26:54 pm »
That's something I cannot understand. It goes beyond sexism or other isms IMO. Why would you reply to a person other than the one who addressed you? Though that might not be the person the item is for. I've only very briefly worked in retail but a few decades ago I did a short stint in a menswear shop. Often couples would come in together and frequently it was the woman doing the shopping, taking their man round with them, getting him a new jacket or whatever. Which can lead to some odd conversations. "Do you think that's the right size? It looks a bit small but the arms are long." "He'll be better with a larger size. We can take the arms in a bit."
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Phil W

Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2018, 05:47:41 pm »
700C wheels being a defacto standard when you want a smaller road bike frame does not help.  That leads to all sorts of issues including lack of space for water bottles and saddle bags etc.  Something with 26" or 24" wheels would make for better options for smaller frames that did not have clearance issues due to oversize wheels.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2018, 05:58:08 pm »
700C wheels being a defacto standard when you want a smaller road bike frame does not help.  That leads to all sorts of issues including lack of space for water bottles and saddle bags etc.  Something with 26" or 24" wheels would make for better options for smaller frames that did not have clearance issues due to oversize wheels.

Yep, but the moment you move away from 700c the tyre choices diminish greatly. Continental GP4000s ii are the default goto road tyre, the benchmark everything else is compared to. It comes in 622 only, road offerings in 584 are hard to find. This is also an issue at pro level, if you have one rider on the team who's bike is so small she's riding 584 rims, then you need to make sure you have these on the team car, you need to make sure neutral service can cover that, etc... This is also an issue if you are doing Audax's or ultra races. You can get 622 road tyres pretty much everywhere, hell Ian Walker used a 6 quid cheapy road tyre after his side wall split on the North Cape 4000. But if you're on 584's you're gonna have issues finding spares along the way, so now you're adding a few hundred grams and some bulk to carry a spare outer... and so on and so forth. This is also one of the reasons that I don't want to drift too far away from standard shimano spec stuff. I'm aiming to do TCR no 7 next year, and my bike is built with the availability of parts in mind (Not to mention next months Road to Hell has 400km between bike shops...)

One of the female riders on this years TCR had a tripple crankset, the inner ring buckled and she had to visit a number of bike shops to find one that could help her.

And the small frame bottles thing is something I know only too well. I've given up with frame mounted bottles now. I have 2 alpkit stem cells on the handle bars, one for a 1l bottle, one for food. My frame is too small to fit bottles in sensibly. I'm experimenting with the waho no wobble rack thingy on my saddle, that will take 2 bottles. Tho I learned the hardway you need to loctite the screws else the thing shakes apart...

J
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Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Phil W

Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2018, 06:02:12 pm »
I know all about the tyre issue from my recumbent.  Can I have fast, easily available, tubeless tyres for my recumbent? Not a chance unless I swap it for a high racer (aka 700c recumbent).

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2018, 06:04:58 pm »
I know all about the tyre issue from my recumbent.  Can I easily have fast, easily available, tubeless tyres for my recumbent? Not a chance unless I swap it for a high racer (aka 700c recumbent).

Yeah, that makes it even harder. Ouch.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - a Pacific bike ride
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2018, 07:14:40 pm »
And the small frame bottles thing is something I know only too well. I've given up with frame mounted bottles now. I have 2 alpkit stem cells on the handle bars, one for a 1l bottle, one for food. My frame is too small to fit bottles in sensibly. I'm experimenting with the waho no wobble rack thingy on my saddle, that will take 2 bottles. Tho I learned the hardway you need to loctite the screws else the thing shakes apart...

Have you tried behind the saddle bottles?  Or BTA since you're using tribars? 

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2018, 08:31:27 pm »
Recumbents are clearly the solution[1].  Not because they magically fit better, but because frankengearing, unconventional crank lenghts, DIY seat mods and unobtanium tyres are par for the course so everyone in the recumbent world - including manufacturers - knows all about dealing with those issues, regardless of your gender.  It also means you don't have to deal with bike shops, because none of the ones within cycling distance will have what you need anyway.  You just need a shed full of tools and google, or a huge wad of cash.

Incidentally, the only time I've ever been asked if I was with a boyfriend during a cycling event was at the HPV World Championships, by another female rider.  She (who'd cycle-toured over as part of a mixed group of German recumbenteers, including her boyfriend) was really impressed, and explained that she had no other women near her ability level in her own country, so it was great to have some proper competition[2].

People do occasionally ask if my partner does my bike maintenance for me, thobut.  With hilarious consequences.


[1] Ha ha only serious.  Eliminating saddles would seem to do wonders for female cyclists, if they weren't so afraid of being *weird*.
[2] And that, kids, is how I ended up taking things too seriously out of general solidarity and ended up coming second in my category by a narrow margin.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2018, 08:32:11 pm »
I know all about the tyre issue from my recumbent.  Can I have fast, easily available, tubeless tyres for my recumbent? Not a chance unless I swap it for a high racer (aka 700c recumbent).

Schwalbe Pro One is available in 28-406 and 28-559, as well as the usual 622.  Rims left as an exercise for the reader.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2018, 08:50:30 pm »
The only one I'm aware of at present for a standard 24mm HTII type spindle is the Sugino OX series which in the UK are rare than rocking horse droppings.  Praxis have squeezed a 32 onto a 110BCD with a 30mm spindle (hence less choice/more cost of BB)   but still not low enough for me to duplicate the range of my triple.  FSA have dropped to a lower BCD to accommodate smaller rings but apparently only for the various pushfit standards, not for threaded frames.

If you start with a triple like a 4603 or 5703 you can just swap he middle ring for a 46t and ditch the larger one?

Ahead of you there.  See my December 2017 post here
The point is, why should I have, and others (of any gender) who prefer not to take it out of their legs every time the road goes up, have to go all bodgetastic to get gears they find comfortable?  To get both the spread of gears and the gaps to adequately replace my triple on the 'best bike', which I'm vain enough not to fugli, I need an 11 speed 11-34 cassette (and hence the new R7000 / R8000 RDs) as well as a 46/30 chainset.   That's my comfort zone, and I don't give a hoot that someone of same or different gender thinks it is un-necessary.

The bodge referenced above was done with 5700 series stuff and so on it's theoretical limit at 11-32 cassette so I went 44/28 at the front.   It could possibly be pushed to use an 11-34 cassette but it is 10 speed so then the gaps start going out...

Will have to look closer at the FSA...
 

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2018, 08:59:48 pm »
Incidentally, the only time I've ever been asked if I was with a boyfriend during a cycling event was at the HPV World Championships, by another female rider.  She (who'd cycle-toured over as part of a mixed group of German recumbenteers, including her boyfriend) was really impressed, and explained that she had no other women near her ability level in her own country, so it was great to have some proper competition[2].


[2] And that, kids, is how I ended up taking things too seriously out of general solidarity and ended up coming second in my category by a narrow margin.[/sub]
So was she the one who beat you? Or did you beat her? Or were you in different categories? Or a combination of all of these and some other possibilities?
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2018, 09:27:38 pm »
So was she the one who beat you? Or did you beat her? Or were you in different categories? Or a combination of all of these and some other possibilities?

I was much faster in the sprints, she had better tactics in the crits, and she was half a lap ahead of me for almost the entire endurance race.  She beat me on points in Ladies Unfaired[1], with her coming first and me second.  In Open[1] I came 65th and she came 66th, which AIUI means I was faster than slightly more other-category riders than she was.

Veering back onto the wrong topic, you can infer from those results tables that HPV racing is about as demographically diverse as audax is.


[1] Categories are beyond the scope of this thread, but this page will give you some idea of how it works, with the disclaimer that the world championship doesn't use exactly same ones.  Unlike all that UCI rubbish, HPV racing is as much about engineering as athleticism, and IMHO Open is the only one that really counts.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Phil W

Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2018, 11:26:33 pm »
I know all about the tyre issue from my recumbent.  Can I have fast, easily available, tubeless tyres for my recumbent? Not a chance unless I swap it for a high racer (aka 700c recumbent).

Schwalbe Pro One is available in 28-406 and 28-559, as well as the usual 622.  Rims left as an exercise for the reader.

Yes it has more recently become available but you try getting hold of them and besides the pro one is not that robust a tyre. Again rims choices limited.

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2018, 11:45:31 pm »
I know all about the tyre issue from my recumbent.  Can I have fast, easily available, tubeless tyres for my recumbent? Not a chance unless I swap it for a high racer (aka 700c recumbent).

Schwalbe Pro One is available in 28-406 and 28-559, as well as the usual 622.  Rims left as an exercise for the reader.

Yes it has more recently become available but you try getting hold of them and besides the pro one is not that robust a tyre. Again rims choices limited.

I have one of each.  The 406 was easy enough.  The 559 took some effort as it was so new and many of the suppliers claiming to have stock didn't, but it seems to have become more widely available[1] now.

You didn't mention robust.  If you want robust tyres, there seems little point in running tubeless on a recumbent.  (IMHO there seems little point in running tubeless on anything other than a mountain bike, but it's a relatively straightforward marginal gain for a racing 'bent.)


[1] For recumbent/tourer parts values of 'widely available'.  Ie. Your LBS won't have them and I wouldn't rate your chances with the likes of Wiggle, but you can always suck it up and get them from SJS.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2018, 04:53:18 pm »
And the only reason I'm involved is because I'm the family's seasoned-cyclist and know when being sold something that's out-of-spec.  I have on numerous occasions had to remind the sales-assistant that they're selling to the person I walked in with and not to me — almost exactly the mirror-image of what QG said, and just as uncomfortable ...

I've stopped going into bike shops with men. I ask a question, they reply to the man. Every single time. Even if the man says "I'm not a cyclist, talk to her".

J

PS I've also had similar experiences in tool shops, outdoor equipment stores, model train shops, etc...

I used to work for a company that was based at an office in a cardboard box factory; one of the requirements of the rental was that we would cover reception.

The MD of the box company  was male; but their Finance manager was a woman.
In our office there was 4 guys; 2 engineers, a CAD jockey and me on the computers all with responsibility to answer the reception phone.

The majority of callers on hearing my voice when the wanted to speak to the MD would just launch into the details after saying Hi; sometimes I had been told the whole ordering plans before manging to convince the caller that I wasn't the MD.

Likewise when someone wanted put through to Finance they assumed the woman was the finance directors secretary...

 ::-)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Suitable Kit was Diversity was : AUK CHAIRMAN ST
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2018, 05:04:19 pm »

I needed a new spoke key[1], so went into one of the few bike shops in Amsterdam that targets non-utility cycling. I was there at 1630 on a Sunday afternoon (they close at 1700). While in the shop including myself, and the female friend I dragged in with me (tho she's a cyclist that used to compete in crits etc... but we have fundamental disagreement these days on what constitutes a short ride...[2]), there was also 1 non-white male customer, and one female customer. I couldn't hear what he was buying, but she was dropping off her bike to have new tubeless tyres fitted.

Admittedly it's a very small sample of a very short period of time, but 4 people in the bike shop that are all minorities in the cycling community.

On a related note, and why I put this in the kit fork of the thread. I also had a nose at the complete selection of women's specific bikes they had. Which was: 3. Out of maybe 30ish bikes. These were: Specilized Dolce (in pink), Specilized Dolce (in not pink, size 54 frame), and a Specilized Diverge. I had a chat with the member of staff who was working, as it wasn't the really creepy guy that's in there most days. He said the company had had a conversation this week about their womens bike range, and were going to increase it, but they were waiting for the 2019 models to come out, which is promising.

J

[1] They seem to derive some of their properties from biros, as no matter how many I buy, they just disappear...
[2] 20km fine, 25km is long, 30km only acceptable if we stop for at a cafe half way...
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