Author Topic: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?  (Read 7895 times)

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2018, 08:37:58 pm »
Great I will probably pick up again after the weekend and start merging control data into the mapping.  Just two events have their controls data in what is live at the moment. I do like the outline routes popping up when you having over them.  I can now see The Huddersfield Humber perm turns near me , so I might use that for one of my RRTY rides.
Erm, Phil, looking at the Huddersfield Star Wheelers 230km Humber Bridge permanent, I think you may have got the wrong Hatfield. I think they're using Hatfield in South Yorkshire (NE of Doncaster) not Hatfield, Herts! I think (from memory) you live somewhere near Stevenage (I may be wrong, forgive me if so!) which would make it more of a 700 to 800km perm!!  :jurek:
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional Track Commissaire
British Cycling Regional Circuit Commissaire
British Cycling Ride Leader

Phil W

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2018, 08:43:51 pm »
Great I will probably pick up again after the weekend and start merging control data into the mapping.  Just two events have their controls data in what is live at the moment. I do like the outline routes popping up when you having over them.  I can now see The Huddersfield Humber perm turns near me , so I might use that for one of my RRTY rides.
Erm, Phil, looking at the Huddersfield Star Wheelers 230km Humber Bridge permanent, I think you may have got the wrong Hatfield. I think they're using Hatfield in South Yorkshire (NE of Doncaster) not Hatfield, Herts! I think (from memory) you live somewhere near Stevenage (I may be wrong, forgive me if so!) which would make it more of a 700 to 800km perm!!  :jurek:

Yeah I noticed that when I looked at distance it was. If you can update the soreadsheet with the correct Hatfield that would be great. Place and county is usually good enough unless you have lots of Hatfields. We intend to run a sanity checker over the control data when I get time to check computed distance against actual.

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2018, 09:02:18 pm »
Great I will probably pick up again after the weekend and start merging control data into the mapping.  Just two events have their controls data in what is live at the moment. I do like the outline routes popping up when you having over them.  I can now see The Huddersfield Humber perm turns near me , so I might use that for one of my RRTY rides.
Erm, Phil, looking at the Huddersfield Star Wheelers 230km Humber Bridge permanent, I think you may have got the wrong Hatfield. I think they're using Hatfield in South Yorkshire (NE of Doncaster) not Hatfield, Herts! I think (from memory) you live somewhere near Stevenage (I may be wrong, forgive me if so!) which would make it more of a 700 to 800km perm!!  :jurek:

Yeah I noticed that when I looked at distance it was. If you can update the soreadsheet with the correct Hatfield that would be great. Place and county is usually good enough unless you have lots of Hatfields. We intend to run a sanity checker over the control data when I get time to check computed distance against actual.
No problem, I've updated the Control Mapping page with the Lat;Long of the Tesco Express in the centre of Hatfield (Yorks) which has carried through to the first page, also marked NA05 as "Updated" on that page.

Hope that's correct?
Darryl
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional Track Commissaire
British Cycling Regional Circuit Commissaire
British Cycling Ride Leader

FifeingEejit

  • Small, Far Away
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2018, 09:02:53 pm »
Also careful not to relocate any routes that go through other Hatfields; see Crossgates for how I've distinguished them when I spot it.

Edit: That's the only route going through a Hatfield

Phil W

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2018, 09:20:17 pm »
There's a few things I am thinking about / working on whilst the data is gathered and refined.

Filtering
Searching
Single Event presentation
Handling multiple events starting  at same location
Clustering events
Data organisation and build  on web page for fast dynamic map updates (does not affect spreadsheet master data).
Workflow


A prime example to consider is the cafe network map.  At its default zoom the UK disappears under a mass weight of icons.  There are better ways to handle what you show on a map at different zoom levels and make navigating the content easier.

I pushed the initial draft code and data onto the web and gave it a web address on Friday to validate it in standard browsers.  I hope to  announce version one by the end of this week once I have completed prototyping, some proof of concepts, and refinement of some of the above elements. Refinement can then be incremental in line with improvement in the data we hold.

A filling came out tonight so maybe not so much work on it tomorrow as a dentist visit takes priority.




telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2018, 10:02:44 am »
For the Down to Downs perm, I've changed "Green Street Green" to "Green Street Green BR6" (and updated the lat-long) as it was previously pointing to the other Green Street Green (in DA2).
2017 - R500 ✅ | 2018 - R1000 ✅ | 2019 - ?

Phil W

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #56 on: September 17, 2018, 10:08:39 am »
Good stuff.

Turns out my dentist shut down without telling me and the building is now being redeveloped.  Oh joy.  So just off to register as a NHS patient at another dentists then I need to apply for an appointment tomorrow.  Might get some more done later today on the protyping later on and I will also pull the latest updates down to see how they translate to the mapping.  Depends on how the tooth is doing.  Just a dull throb at the moment.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2018, 10:14:18 am »
There are a couple I can fill in the details for (DW103 and DW104), but can someone give me an idiot's guide to how to format the information? I'm probably being dense but it's not obvious to me...

FifeingEejit

  • Small, Far Away
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2018, 10:51:49 am »
There are a couple I can fill in the details for (DW103 and DW104), but can someone give me an idiot's guide to how to format the information? I'm probably being dense but it's not obvious to me...

All that's really needed for events is the start control and the control list.
In the Controls column split the names with commas so: Control1, Control2, Control3

The control-co-ords will be worked out when the controls are added to the geocoded list, so you don't have to do that at the same time.
The geo-coding is a bit more technical but is "easier" as it can be done in batch and then checked when the maps are looked at later.

There's also the Extra Info column for any other info that may help us or to indicate where the info was obtained from.

hulver

  • I am a mole and I live in a hole.
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2018, 11:27:07 am »
I've filled in a few I've got the route sheets for (TF01, TF02, TF04, TF08), but not really sure where to get the GPS co-ordinates to fill in the controls list.

I've also got a route sheet for TF06, but it looks to be incorrect.


FifeingEejit

  • Small, Far Away
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2018, 11:29:35 am »
I've filled in a few I've got the route sheets for (TF01, TF02, TF04, TF08), but not really sure where to get the GPS co-ordinates to fill in the controls list.

I've also got a route sheet for TF06, but it looks to be incorrect.

If you've got a handful of controls to add you can use google maps
Right click on the spot you want and select "What's Here" a tiny box will appear at the bottom of the page with the gps co-ords, click that and if you're lucky google will put the co-ords into the search box in the top right. Copy that and drop it in.

Or just leave it and it'll be swept up by a geo-coding run at some point.

Phil W

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2018, 11:54:48 am »
There are a couple I can fill in the details for (DW103 and DW104), but can someone give me an idiot's guide to how to format the information? I'm probably being dense but it's not obvious to me...

Control place and also the County if you know it.  Just put a space between town and county and before comma. That will help the gecoding along later.  Though a sanity check later on will most likely catch ones where we've picked up the right place (in terms of name) but have it in the wrong County.

telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2018, 11:57:28 am »
Would it help to have a column for "nominal distance" of each perm? Then you can check the straightline distance between the geolocated controls and apply a check filter if this differs from the nominal distance by more than x%.
2017 - R500 ✅ | 2018 - R1000 ✅ | 2019 - ?

hulver

  • I am a mole and I live in a hole.
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2018, 12:20:51 pm »

If you've got a handful of controls to add you can use google maps
Right click on the spot you want and select "What's Here" a tiny box will appear at the bottom of the page with the gps co-ords, click that and if you're lucky google will put the co-ords into the search box in the top right. Copy that and drop it in.

Or just leave it and it'll be swept up by a geo-coding run at some point.

I've done that, as the control names from the route sheet weren't obvious where they are, unless you're following the route.

Phil W

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2018, 12:57:00 pm »
Would it help to have a column for "nominal distance" of each perm? Then you can check the straightline distance between the geolocated controls and apply a check filter if this differs from the nominal distance by more than x%.

I have all the nominal distances for every event on the PC at home and in the data I load for the mapping.  So it can all be joined together.  The common attribute is the event number, which is the most accurate bit for such a join.

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2018, 12:12:56 am »
I have finished off Steve P's massive number (46?), and found a few others.
Provided the locations listed generate a fair representation of the route, the detail can be found from the organiser, once a rider has found a ride which suits. We do not seek to provide an alternate source of the controls for each event, for riding purposes (iyswim).
I think this examination of the 400+ listed perms (I must have looked at a third) could conclude that some organisers would be reasonably advised to include more detail on each of their events. And the Permanent Head Honcho (JW) could offer a mentoring service for those who offer 'sparse detail'.

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2018, 09:31:55 am »
. And the Permanent Head Honcho (JW) could offer a mentoring service for those who offer 'sparse detail'.

very ambitious...

Phil W

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #67 on: September 18, 2018, 12:15:19 pm »
I have added the perm descriptions to the working Google Sheet.  Will be pulling down the data collected to parse it for map processing.  So I can see what it looks like and refine the visualization.

I have now added clustering of markers so you do not end up with a mass of marker icons at higher zoom levels. The clusters show how many perms sit beneath them. Click on a cluster and it expands out to the perms below. Note image below is old perm data, not the latest updates we now have in the working spreadsheet including controls.



Phil W

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2018, 12:57:51 pm »
Added in distance (to nearest 50 / 100km) and AAA to spreadsheet

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2018, 01:55:53 pm »
. And the Permanent Head Honcho (JW) could offer a mentoring service for those who offer 'sparse detail'.

very ambitious...

I offered that service to all organisers (calendar and perm) a few years ago via the organisers newsletter. I offered to do GPX routes, outline maps, elevation profiles, descriptions, etc - as much or as little as they wanted - all from whatever information that would give me (even just a routesheet) - emailed or posted.

I had a few other offers of help from people on here who wanted to share the workload. Those offers turned out to be unnecessary as, from what I can remember, only a single calendar organiser took me up on the offer.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2018, 03:50:52 pm »
. And the Permanent Head Honcho (JW) could offer a mentoring service for those who offer 'sparse detail'.

very ambitious...
http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/JW06/

Phil W


FifeingEejit

  • Small, Far Away
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2018, 10:13:39 pm »
Hm, just spotted that the Control formula has gone out of synch with the rows when stuff was reordered; will fix.

Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2018, 10:16:14 am »
I offered that service to all organisers (calendar and perm) . . . I offered to do GPX routes, outline maps, elevation profiles, descriptions, etc
After the joint work on this (which seems almost complete - only a few barebones no details events still without controls) I think it would be good to invite perm holders/organisers to include a basic set of information on the event page. Is there a structural reason (ie access to add/amend) why they cannot do this?

I realise there might be historic reasons why some rides are being left on the list with no detail AT ALL and without, even, the organiser's e-mail address (so the prospective rider can enquire (without resorting to snail mail) where the ride goes).
Should AUK specify a minimum set of data required for rides which merit retention/inclusion?

@Greenbank - add my name to those who would help in case you get a flurry of requests.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Virtual Alps
Re: Where do permanent Events start from and go - can you help?
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2018, 12:11:31 pm »
Permanent organisers have access to edit (most of) the details of their own perms, including start place, additional start info (labelled 'County'), keywords (searchable) and a verbose description of unlimited length that could include a list of controls.

Until about a month ago there was a bug that had gone unreported for a long time, that was writing the County line from the organisers home address into the additional start info field.  This incorrect info may in turn have contributed to some geocoding errors.

I notice there is currently a bug in both the Perms and Calendar events planner (again unreported) that interferes with the map widget that allows the org to set a Gpoint (lat-long) for the Start.  Google Maps playing silly again - I can guess what the problem might be and hopfully it'll be fixed soon.  EDIT: oh I see it's affecting all Gmaps on aukweb, not just the widget.

Geocoding the controls is certainly an interesting project and especially valuable for Permanents because of the convention that they can be started from any point.  Currently aukweb doesn't have any data provision for this though it's certainly been thought about a few times.
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