Author Topic: Which battery pack?  (Read 2799 times)

Oscar's dad

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Which battery pack?
« on: September 14, 2018, 03:43:18 pm »
I like running my Garmin Extrex E30 off an external battery pack via a USB lead.  I purchased a nice looking Zendure battery pack which allows through charging.  But, it powers the Garmin about 30 second then stops so the E30 bleeps asking if I want to switch off, if I click NO it swaps to its onboard AA cells.

None of my other battery packs behave lke this and they all claim to having an output of 2.4 amps just like the Zendure.  I don't think the Zendure is at fault as it will charge my iPhone perfectly.

Any ideas?  Does a Garmin need some sort of weird power input?

Thanks in advance.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2018, 06:07:50 pm »
I expect the Garmin is drawing so low a current that the battery pack has decided its time to switch off.

Different battery packs will have different minimum thresholds and will behave differently.

Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 07:10:01 pm »
You could try having the Etrex backlight on while charging, and then find the minimum necessary BL level required to keep power bank on.
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2018, 06:29:55 pm »
Out of curiosity, why?

My Etrex 30 lasts 24 hours on rechargeable batteries, with the backlight on, and it’s very simple to swap to a second pair of batteries. Why use the external battery with all the associated issues when using it in the rain?

Just curious.

Oscar's dad

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Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2018, 03:30:30 pm »
You could try having the Etrex backlight on while charging, and then find the minimum necessary BL level required to keep power bank on.

I always have the BL on and it doesn't make any difference.

Out of curiosity, why?

My Etrex 30 lasts 24 hours on rechargeable batteries, with the backlight on, and it’s very simple to swap to a second pair of batteries. Why use the external battery with all the associated issues when using it in the rain?

Just curious.

OK, that's interesting.  I'm sure my E30 doesn't last that long but perhaps I will give it a try again.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2018, 03:31:59 pm »
I've done 24h - usually leave backlight on a timeout (15s) rather than on all the time.

If it's raining, opening the back of the garmin to change batteries is not ideal, though. I had issues one LEL doing this.

Oscar's dad

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Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2018, 03:35:02 pm »
I like having the BL on all the time, particularly at night when following a track as it won't light up automatically at turns as it would when following a route.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2018, 03:47:03 pm »
i wouldn't recommend using usb changing all the time as vibration will damage the contacts in the socket and the unit will become unusable. i've had this on my gps, and now only use the cable to charge on the go when really necessary.

Oscar's dad

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Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2018, 03:51:36 pm »
i wouldn't recommend using usb changing all the time as vibration will damage the contacts in the socket and the unit will become unusable. i've had this on my gps, and now only use the cable to charge on the go when really necessary.

On the Etrex it doesn’t charge, just powers the unit via the USB.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2018, 03:54:36 pm »
i wouldn't recommend using usb changing all the time as vibration will damage the contacts in the socket and the unit will become unusable. i've had this on my gps, and now only use the cable to charge on the go when really necessary.

On the Etrex it doesn’t charge, just powers the unit via the USB.

It doesn't make any difference to ZigZag's point - the issue is the socket being in use during riding.

I've been using rechargeable batteries in Etrex GPS devices since about 2006. They're a good option despite my earlier caveat. Use good quality batteries and a good charger if going this way.

Oscar's dad

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Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2018, 04:02:44 pm »
i wouldn't recommend using usb changing all the time as vibration will damage the contacts in the socket and the unit will become unusable. i've had this on my gps, and now only use the cable to charge on the go when really necessary.

On the Etrex it doesn’t charge, just powers the unit via the USB.

It doesn't make any difference to ZigZag's point - the issue is the socket being in use during riding.


Sure, to be honest I haven't had an issue [famous last words!  ;D  ]

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2018, 04:44:56 pm »
I expect the Garmin is drawing so low a current that the battery pack has decided its time to switch off.

Different battery packs will have different minimum thresholds and will behave differently.

This.  An eTrex uses very little power, compared to the charging phone the battery packs are designed for.  I measure a draw of about 70mA from my eTrex 30 with the backlight off and 110mA with the backlight at full brightness.  (I did some proper measurements with a µCurrent and an oscilloscope a while ago, which I detailed in a post somewhere that I can't now find.)

Second the point that one of the main advantages of an eTrex is that you don't have to do this USB-power-on-the-move nonsense.  Mini-USB sockets are neither waterproof nor durable, and AA batteries are cheap, readily available, easy to swap and give somewhere over 20 hours runtime (decent NiMH recharagable or primary Lithium cells, alkalines are disappointing).

FWIW my Anker PowerCore Speed 20000 has been powering my eTrex 30 (sitting on the menu screen with with the backlight and GPS receiver switched off) since I started writing this post, and shows no signs of switching off.  It will also stay on and power my phone after it is fully charged (which I consider an advantage, YMMV) where my Aukey PB-T9 and EasyAcc PB12000A did not.  Might be a bit overkill for using on the bike, audaxer-who-bought-an-Edge-style, but on the other hand it's an excellent choice for touring, as it appears to do the Right Thing in response to fluctuating input (as from a dynamo charger or solar panel) and in combination with a QC3 compatible wall-wart, it can charge at 15W.


ETA: After >10 minutes, the Anker was still powering the eTrex.  I tried the Aukey and it switched off after about 30 seconds.  The EasyAcc switched itself off even more quickly.  That's all the power banks I have to hand.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

frankly frankie

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Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2018, 06:39:36 pm »
If it's raining, opening the back of the garmin to change batteries is not ideal, though. I had issues one LEL doing this.

Once you know what sort of runtime to expect, you can always do your battery change at a control, without wasting any time - never in the wet and dark by the roadside.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2018, 07:34:39 pm »
IME it's not so much the rain, as the risk of the MicroSD card falling out on account of the crappy holder.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2018, 07:53:18 pm »
If it's raining, opening the back of the garmin to change batteries is not ideal, though. I had issues one LEL doing this.

Once you know what sort of runtime to expect, you can always do your battery change at a control, without wasting any time - never in the wet and dark by the roadside.

Indeed. Though some batteries are now reporting 1300mAh having started at 2500 so this can make it harder to avoid unexpected flat battery.

Oscar's dad

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Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2018, 01:00:38 pm »
...FWIW my Anker PowerCore Speed 20000 has been powering my eTrex 30 (sitting on the menu screen with with the backlight and GPS receiver switched off) since I started writing this post, and shows no signs of switching off...

Thanks for the info Kim.  Does your Anker allow pass through charging?

I take folk's points about an eTrex not actually needing powering off an external battery pack and AAs being easy to swap and readily available etc.  Audaxing isn't really my thing but touring is.  I like being able to charge a battery pack off my dynohub and then powering all my devices off said battery pack without having to reply on AA cells.

Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2018, 01:54:19 pm »
Quote
3. Can Anker PowerCore portable chargers recharge themselves and charge my devices at the same time?

No, our portable chargers do not support what’s known as “pass-through” charging. (PowerCore Fusion56 will charge your device first, and then begin recharging itself, when plugged into a wall outlet.)

This was an intentional decision. When pass-through charging, if there is a difference between the output of the wall charger and the input requirement of the device being recharged, it causes the portable charger to power on and off rapidly. This increases total charging times, and can damage battery cells, decreasing the lifespan of both your device and the portable charger.
  http://community.anker.com/t/anker-faq-10-things-you-need-to-know-about-anker/57477

I have three Ankers of varying sizes, but don't require p-t charging.
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2018, 02:05:16 pm »
...FWIW my Anker PowerCore Speed 20000 has been powering my eTrex 30 (sitting on the menu screen with with the backlight and GPS receiver switched off) since I started writing this post, and shows no signs of switching off...

Thanks for the info Kim.  Does your Anker allow pass through charging?

Can confirm that it doesn't.


Quote
I take folk's points about an eTrex not actually needing powering off an external battery pack and AAs being easy to swap and readily available etc.  Audaxing isn't really my thing but touring is.  I like being able to charge a battery pack off my dynohub and then powering all my devices off said battery pack without having to reply on AA cells.

That sounds like what I do (my audax rides will comfortably fit in a single charge).  I find a set of batteries lasts 2-3 days of touring.  I carry a spare pair of high-capacity NiMHs, a pair of emergency backup primary lithiums, and a small USB-powered 2xAA/AAA charger.  I'll generally charge AAs (and if I've used them, the AAAs from my auxiliary rear light) when I have access to mains or an abundance of solar power, but I can charge them with power from the USB power bank if necessary.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2018, 07:00:39 am »
You could try having the Etrex backlight on while charging, and then find the minimum necessary BL level required to keep power bank on.

I always have the BL on and it doesn't make any difference.

Out of curiosity, why?

My Etrex 30 lasts 24 hours on rechargeable batteries, with the backlight on, and it’s very simple to swap to a second pair of batteries. Why use the external battery with all the associated issues when using it in the rain?

Just curious.

OK, that's interesting.  I'm sure my E30 doesn't last that long but perhaps I will give it a try again.

I only have the backlight on a couple of notches from the bottom. Most people I’ve seen complaining about battery life have the backlight way to high (often on full) which I find dazzling at night and eats batteries.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2018, 01:30:45 pm »
I only have the backlight on a couple of notches from the bottom. Most people I’ve seen complaining about battery life have the backlight way to high (often on full) which I find dazzling at night and eats batteries.

Agreed.  Full backlight is occasionally necessary for readability in the wrong kind of daylight, but in darkness a lower setting is more eye-friendly.

Of course, if the backlight's only coming on for a minute or so at junctions, it's not using that much energy anyway.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2018, 01:55:53 pm »
A friend of mine has started doing reviews of power banks, USB cables and the like.  He's not Big Clive, but he's thorough and independent (and has the sense to make good old-fashioned web pages for those of us who don't want to sit through a 20 minute video to find out if a given product is any good):  https://powerben.ch/
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2018, 05:06:49 pm »
That sounds like what I do (my audax rides will comfortably fit in a single charge).  I find a set of batteries lasts 2-3 days of touring.  I carry a spare pair of high-capacity NiMHs, a pair of emergency backup primary lithiums, and a small USB-powered 2xAA/AAA charger.  I'll generally charge AAs (and if I've used them, the AAAs from my auxiliary rear light) when I have access to mains or an abundance of solar power, but I can charge them with power from the USB power bank if necessary.

Which "small USB-powered 2xAA/AAA charger" do you use? I do have one, though think the one I have only works with AAs and it's very slow at charging, so am looking for something better. Thanks!
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2018, 06:03:52 pm »
That sounds like what I do (my audax rides will comfortably fit in a single charge).  I find a set of batteries lasts 2-3 days of touring.  I carry a spare pair of high-capacity NiMHs, a pair of emergency backup primary lithiums, and a small USB-powered 2xAA/AAA charger.  I'll generally charge AAs (and if I've used them, the AAAs from my auxiliary rear light) when I have access to mains or an abundance of solar power, but I can charge them with power from the USB power bank if necessary.

Which "small USB-powered 2xAA/AAA charger" do you use? I do have one, though think the one I have only works with AAs and it's very slow at charging, so am looking for something better. Thanks!

It's a no-name piece of shit that came with some batteries.  It's fairly light, extremely slow, not at all durable, and has worked for the half a dozen times I've needed to recharge GPS batteries on tour.

I hear that there's an Ikea one that has proper independent charging channels, which is certainly an improvement.  No idea how fast it is.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2018, 06:21:24 pm »
That sounds like what I do (my audax rides will comfortably fit in a single charge).  I find a set of batteries lasts 2-3 days of touring.  I carry a spare pair of high-capacity NiMHs, a pair of emergency backup primary lithiums, and a small USB-powered 2xAA/AAA charger.  I'll generally charge AAs (and if I've used them, the AAAs from my auxiliary rear light) when I have access to mains or an abundance of solar power, but I can charge them with power from the USB power bank if necessary.

Which "small USB-powered 2xAA/AAA charger" do you use? I do have one, though think the one I have only works with AAs and it's very slow at charging, so am looking for something better. Thanks!

It's a no-name piece of shit that came with some batteries.  It's fairly light, extremely slow, not at all durable, and has worked for the half a dozen times I've needed to recharge GPS batteries on tour.

Sounds not dissimilar to mine, though I've not used it much - have mostly been using my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt, but can see how an Etrex would be handy be longer Audax rides.

Quote
I hear that there's an Ikea one that has proper independent charging channels, which is certainly an improvement.  No idea how fast it is.

This one? It's cheap as chips, so could be worth as punt:

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/smart-home-appliances/cables-chargers/vinninge-battery-charger-art-40303632/

It looks larger and probably heavier than the device I have, though

There's a reasonably detailed technical review here: https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20Ikea%20Vinninge%20403.036.32%20UK.html
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Oscar's dad

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Re: Which battery pack?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2018, 06:30:45 pm »
I’ve had a Technoline BL700 for many years, does a great job, not sure if they are still available.