Author Topic: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)  (Read 3329 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2018, 11:58:23 am »
It's quite difficult to hang a bike by it's rear wheel. You have to balance the whole bike on the squirmy steering end. By the front wheel is much easier, as the CoG is below the squirmy bit (maybe from a physics PoV that's not the actual reason, but whatever the reason is, it's much harder from the rear wheel).
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2018, 11:59:59 am »
Hang it upside down (i.e. front down) and all of the speed will drain out of the bike and down that plughole.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2018, 12:00:07 pm »
@Roger – are you thinking of the Trucker? Just remembered a friend (different friend from the earlier one) found his LHT wouldn't fit the danglespace due to excessive wheelbase. I think his is a 56cm frame.
Probably the Moulton.  Should be ok, only 28mm tyres and a fairly standard wheelbase.  Brompton is an option but it's tedious to ride on rough country lanes.

Are you booking a train back, or spending the rest of your days in Swindon?*

*you won't have a choice if the chuds get you
I'm intending to meander back to Chippencong and get a local, no need to book, train from there. I think there should be one. It's possible I'll end up like a two-wheeled Flying Dutchman, eternally circumnavigating the Magic Roundabout.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2018, 12:08:26 pm »
It's quite difficult to hang a bike by it's rear wheel. You have to balance the whole bike on the squirmy steering end. By the front wheel is much easier, as the CoG is below the squirmy bit (maybe from a physics PoV that's not the actual reason, but whatever the reason is, it's much harder from the rear wheel).

Not if you lift the bike entirely off the ground (as you would have to to prevent damage to longer rear mudguards).  That's what you have to do anyway if the front end of your bike has a slicey bit rather than a squirmy bit.  Which is why this design is marginally superior to CrossCountry's - it's difficult enough to support a bike vertically off the ground without having to cantilever it outwards on extended arms to reach into the cupboard from the front.

If you were doing it in a workplace, this sort of thing would likely fall foul of the Manual Handling Operations Regulations.  But it's absolutely fine to expect random members of the public - without training, and irrespective of their height, strength and disability - to have to do it on a moving vehicle...
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2018, 01:04:16 pm »
Not sure I get what you mean about cantilevering. The XC cupboards you can only get at from the front, they have solid sides as far as I remember. The 800s, judging from the photo, have a solid "front" and open sides – the opening is at right angles to the hooks. It doesn't look as if there's room to hold a bike horizontally in that space, but maybe there is. But if you've got a back mudguard you're going to have to twist the bike to a vertical position to get the hook over rim, even if you lift the bike horizontally. Of course this all assumes the bike is light enough to lift entirely off the ground...
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2018, 01:25:10 pm »
Exactly.  On CrossCountry, you have to stand in front of the cupboard with the bike held out in front of you and offer it up to the hook, because the side of the cupboard prevents you from standing close to the bike.  With these ones (or, say, the hooks on Virgin Voyagers, which have no cupboarding at all) you can hold the bike by its side closer to your body and reach the hook without having to extend your arms.  This makes a big difference for shorter users or with particularly heavy bikes.

If I have to put the Streetmachine in the right-hand two[1] bike space on a CrossCountry Voyager, the only way I can do it is by accompanying the vertical bike all the way into the cupboard in order to reach the hook, at which point I'm trapped by the handlebars at hip height and have to climb to get out.  Bruising is expected.


[1] As long as the second one has the wheel-to-wheel length of a child's mountain bike.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2018, 01:33:04 pm »
Can you get close to the hook on these? It doesn't look like it from the photo, but I haven't used one (and won't be rushing to do so).

Anyway, you missed out the first step, which is of course to move the suitcases/catering trolley/bag of used coffee cups and crisp packets from the cycle space.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2018, 01:54:39 pm »
Nahh, the first step is to negotiate with the other cyclist(s) on the platform to work out which order to put the bikes in.  *Then* you have to move the luggages and bin bags...
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2018, 02:36:52 pm »
Nahh, the first step is to negotiate with the other cyclist(s) on the platform to work out which order to put the bikes in.  *Then* you have to move the luggages and bin bags...

All issues covered in my email to GWR  ;)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2018, 08:25:37 pm »
At the end of the Bristol-Swindon ride, as we finished by the station anyway, I decided to take a train back as far as Chippenham (only £7.30!) then meander back from there. "It's one of the new IETs. You know there's a new way of putting your bike on? You have to hang it up," said the helpful woman in the ticket office. "Yes, but how will I know which carriage the bike compartment is in?" It turns out they don't print it on the ticket, but it was on the receipt, which seems back to front. It was Coach F, which sounded like it would be the middle of the train, so I correspondingly waited in the middle of the platform. And when the train came in... it was a good old HST! :thumbsup: Curiously, it was in reverse formation; normally they have First at the up (London) end and the bike spaces at the down end, so the posh and important people don't have to walk so far at Paddington, but this one had the bike spaces at the up end, which meant the back of the train as I was heading west.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2018, 09:00:51 pm »
Meanwhile, according to AtoB magazine, ScotRail are repurposing 153 single carriage DMUs into self-powered cycle-vans* to be attached when necessary....
*it is unclear whether they also carry the cyclists or if cyclists use the standard train carriages.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/cycle-coaches-to-be-hitched-to-trains-to-ease-bike-crush-1-4755533

Perhaps hitachi could make some 800 carriages with cabs at each end for similar use.....

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2018, 09:05:58 pm »
I can't see the situation changing while bikes are carried free. A bike takes up at least one seat's worth of room and they don't really want us at all. Maybe car hire is the way to go for one-way rides between town centres? One-way hire is easy and you can throw a few bikes in the back of an MPV.  Not safe for the morning after a night ride, though.   Zzzzzz.
Never tell me the odds.

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2018, 09:14:37 pm »
Surely paying for a bike on a Train is a better idea (what about half fare but with a minimum and maximum).


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2018, 09:17:57 pm »
Surely paying for a bike on a Train is a better idea (what about half fare but with a minimum and maximum).

This is what NSB does in Norway.

Germany it's €12 to put a bike on a train (at least on the long distance ones I've used).

To put a bike on the train between Brussels and Amsterdam (and intermediate stops), is €12,

The Dutch charge €6 per day. For this you get unlimited travel outside of rush hour (or all day in July + August), and a free argument with who ever is sat in the bike space on the train you got on, and doesn't want to move, followed by having to call for the conductor to come and tell them to shift their arse...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2018, 09:19:18 pm »
That design looks crap. Pendolinos on the WCML may smell of shit far too often, but at least you can roll a fully loaded touring bike on and just park it. If they did something to cover the sharp aluminium ribs from the train shell they would be even better ::-)
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2018, 09:19:49 pm »

Oh, and the Swedes just don't allow bikes on trains, not sure why...

The Danes it was a few krona, but I couldn't work out if there was a min/max.

Charging for bikes on trains seems entirely fair, but if done, they need to make it so you don't have to book, or faff, or pretty much anything most UK operators do...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Phil W

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2018, 09:30:07 pm »
If you are going to pay I would want a guaranteed space to put the bike, so I can sit down and relax. Buggered if I am paying to stand up holding bike to prevent it falling over and constantly move my bike around as carriage doors open at stations.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2018, 09:30:29 pm »
I was fairly impressed that arriving at the station, I could book a space on a train that had departed about an hour ago and was due to arrive at that station in about 15 mins. The reservation does seem to get communicated to the train crew as they are speeding along the rails. And they no longer require a seat reservation when booking a bike space, so you can take a bike on an open ticket. Bike space reservations, however, are fairly pointless unless there's a way of actually keeping the space clear (of unreserved bikes, luggage, surfboards, catering trolleys, other passengers, etc).
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2018, 09:31:48 pm »

Oh, and the Swedes just don't allow bikes on trains, not sure why...
Because they take up paying passenger space?
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2018, 09:45:39 pm »
I think I used one of those spaces on the way to Exeter. It was a bit faffy, but luckily I was well before departure at Paddington so there was no other stuff already there. My bike had 25c tyres on normal profile rims, which went on the hooks OK. I had a bike reservation, which told me where to get on. The cupboard did give me a place to put my luggage so I wasn't massively in the way while I did the lifting and hooking. There was several hours train ride between getting on and off again, but I wouldn't want to muck about like that for a 20 minute trip. Having to lug my bags at least a carriage down to my seat also wasn't ideal, but I was probably doing something outrageous like wanting a quiet coach.

The trip back, using Taunton / Bristol (though the ticket said Bath) / Faversham, was worse in that the ticket said the wrong place so the change was confusing and the Faversham train was standing room only the whole way, bike space just in the corridor and little chance to getting near my reservation. I'd have begrudged paying extra for that.

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2018, 10:51:43 pm »
Meanwhile, according to AtoB magazine, ScotRail are repurposing 153 single carriage DMUs into self-powered cycle-vans* to be attached when necessary....
*it is unclear whether they also carry the cyclists or if cyclists use the standard train carriages.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/cycle-coaches-to-be-hitched-to-trains-to-ease-bike-crush-1-4755533

Perhaps hitachi could make some 800 carriages with cabs at each end for similar use.....
The class 153s are intended to be used on the West Highland line (Glasgow to Oban, Fort William and Mallaig). The initial plan is to get 2 vehicles when they come off lease from Anglia and insert them in the middle** of 2 class 156 2-car units. From what I have seen so far, I believe that around half of the seats will be removed to make space for bike and large luggage storage, although Scotrail have yet to release the design tender document. They will then run them for a while to see if the concept works, or needs modification, and then tender for the conversion of another 3 153s (and bringing the original 2 up to spec if necessary).

** They have to go in the middle, as the class 153 doesn't have space in the cab for the radio signalling system gubbins to operate on the West Highland. Class 153 can't operate on their own after the end of 2019 as they cannot be made PRM-TSI compliant - if the toilet is made compliant, it will take up 2 thirds of the vehicle! - but they can run coupled to (or in) another unit, as they have corridor connections.
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional Track Commissaire
British Cycling Regional Circuit Commissaire
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mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2018, 11:39:14 pm »
Are you sure they are going in the middle? One end of the 153s has the same cab as a 155 so shouldn't have any problems with fitting kit that end I wouldn't have thought. the 156s currently on the line have similar cabs. The tiny cab is only at the converted end.

When I was in Lairg last week the hotel owner (who was also on the local tourist group) thought they were getting some class 153s to add to their trains on the Far North line. I would be surprised if they put a 153 in the middle of a 158, it would screw the air-con in the other two carriages up more than normal, if nothing else.
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2018, 10:27:59 am »

Oh, and the Swedes just don't allow bikes on trains, not sure why...
Because they take up paying passenger space?

Cos heaven forfend passengers would travel with luggage...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2018, 10:29:25 am »
A bicycle is hardly luggage. Unwieldy, big, difficult to stack/store.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2018, 10:41:57 am »
There isn't enough space for conventional luggage, as in suitcases and similar, which is why it ends up in the bike cupboard.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)