Author Topic: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)  (Read 13035 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #200 on: October 07, 2019, 08:26:12 pm »
Yeah but CCP is just the latest term you've dropped in without explanation! Anyway, he has a say because that's his job, just as presumably Roger van Boxtel does (yeah, I looked him up  :D : https://www.ns.nl/en/about-ns/who-are-we/raad-van-bestuur.html ). Or like Peter Parker did back way back (no, not Spider Man [or should that be Spiderman?]. Peter Parker was MD of British Rail back in the 1980s, his name has stuck in my memory because I remember having to write something about him in an English lesson. No, I can't remember what it was about.)

Es tut mir lied.

Roger van Boxtel doesn't have a say on ticket pricing in .NL, it's government regulated. NS has exactly 1 customer. The Dutch Government. Same as GWR has exactly 1 customer, the UK government. But the contracting model vs the franchising model in the respective countries are very different.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #201 on: October 07, 2019, 08:41:44 pm »
Both the operating companies and the government have a say in setting ticket prices in the UK. And then there are complicated formulae for sharing revenue between different TOCs operating the same routes and of course the whole thing is subsidised anyway. And then you get 'direct grant' franchises and goodness knows what else which all makes a farce of the facade of competition, while still being run for profit. But it is where we are and whatever changes we they make to it have to start from here. Though we probably don't know quite exactly where here is, let alone our destination, and as for how to get there...
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #202 on: October 07, 2019, 08:52:12 pm »
Canterbury to Brighton via London is a lot more expensive than Canterbury to Brighton via Rye...

The Any Permitted (i.e. via London) fares appear to be slightly more than the equivalent Canterbury-London, as you'd expect a triangular ticket to be!

The via Rye tickets are actually labelled "Not London", which lets you go to all sorts of exciting triangular places that Aren't London. Like New Cross. Maybe.

But it is where we are and whatever changes we they make to it have to start from here.

One of the joys of where we are is that any changes to ticketing have to be "revenue neutral" to avoid having to renegotiate *everything* with everyone. Therefore you can only cut the price of singles if you put up the price of returns to compensate.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #203 on: October 07, 2019, 08:55:38 pm »
And engage in lots of calculations/guesstimations about the numbers. Same with anytime/off-peak/super off-peak of course. Aaargh!*

*= It's a recipe for not changing things that everyone agrees need changing.

Edit: Is that actually how revenue neutrality works? Isn't it to do with balance of revenue between operators rather than between ticket types?
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #204 on: October 07, 2019, 08:58:59 pm »
Roger van Boxtel doesn't have a say on ticket pricing in .NL, it's government regulated. NS has exactly 1 customer. The Dutch Government. Same as GWR has exactly 1 customer, the UK government. But the contracting model vs the franchising model in the respective countries are very different.
NS own Abellio. So they are profiting from their UK franchises, and using that to improve services in the Netherlands.

While in England and Wales, public sector organisations are banned from running franchises (it is now allowed in Scotland).

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #205 on: October 07, 2019, 09:45:13 pm »
NS own Abellio. So they are profiting from their UK franchises, and using that to improve services in the Netherlands.

Except they're not profiting and Dutch tax and farepayers are paying to improve our services. Thanks QG!

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #206 on: October 13, 2019, 05:20:01 pm »
From what I can see, the new trains on the GWML are basically glorified commuter trains, ideal for giving the commuters from Reading/Didcot a seat and expanding the commuter belt into Swindon- but a fat lot of use for anyone else along the line west of Swindon.

There used to be a lot of regular cyclists using the HSTs Cardiff-Bristol Parkway and Bristol Parkway-Swindon. I wonder where those people have gone? Got in cars maybe? 

GWR fares are eyewatering too- unless of course you have a season ticket, typically a season ticket from Cardiff/Bristol to Reading/London costs 1.5 times the full open return fare.

I suppose the fact that someone in the Rail Delivery Group once described a season ticket in the South East as "the ultimate distress purchase" says it all; after all, why bother about customer service and things like bike racks when the majority of rail passengers only get the train because (in their view) there's no alternative...??!!  :(

The most positive changes I have seen recently are where the TOC is subject to a govt performance check by mystery shoppers- e.g. on "train presentation"- the fines can be enough to cut into the bottom line, which gets notice. Otherwise, if people will travel anyway- why bother?

Nor do I think the Dutch govt can moan too much about plugging holes in Abellio- after all, they have benefitted in the good years- so they have to tough it out in the bad years. Why on earth should it be a UK govt issue, Abellio competed in the franchise process and won, if they got the sums wrong that's for the Dutch taxpayers to deal with (and hold their state-owned operator accountable for).

I'm not a fan of franchising, but if the govt insist on using that model then there should be NO bail outs.

GC


Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #207 on: October 13, 2019, 07:22:20 pm »
GWR fares are eyewatering too- unless of course you have a season ticket, typically a season ticket from Cardiff/Bristol to Reading/London costs 1.5 times the full open return fare.
Walk up peak return Bristol to Paddington is £218. But shop ahead and you get it for less than £50. Most likely you'll pay around £90 if travelling at peak times. The walk up open fare is a distress purchase or for those rich enough not to be bothered (and there's not so much difference between std and first, proportionally).
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #208 on: October 14, 2019, 09:26:15 am »
Apparently the Queen's speech might suggest replacing the current franchise model with a 'concession' system, where fares and timetables are set by LAs but run privately. Hard to say what might actually happen if anything but there is an awareness that the franchise system as it currently is needs to be changed.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #209 on: October 14, 2019, 09:53:06 am »
But be aware that the tories established the franchise system and they will have been 'consulting' the usual industry suspects and lobbyists so that any change will inevitably reduce accountability and either cost more or deliver less.

They will inevitably say that it is what he people asked for.  See the brexit shambles ...

Tories are only ever concerned about their own prosperity in my experience and don't give a xxxx for the plebs once they have extracted our money.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #210 on: October 14, 2019, 10:07:40 am »
Absolutely. Although as the Brexit shambles show, the Tories under John Major who introduced the franchise system were 'the party of business' but now, they're the party of 'fuck business'. The only thing these early statements show is an awareness there is a problem.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #211 on: October 14, 2019, 11:05:35 am »
On the contrary, I see the current tory party as even more greedy than ever.  Look at JRM taking his business outside of the UK and into the EU and Redwood openly advising his friends to take their money out of the UK.  They see post brexit UK as a place to exploit but not necessarily a 'rich pickings' place.  JRM himself estimated that it will take 50 years to recover the financial impact of brexit.

That is an awful lot of austerity for the plebs to swallow.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #212 on: October 14, 2019, 11:30:05 am »
That's the difference between 'business' and personal interest. The two are no longer aligned.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #213 on: January 01, 2020, 10:33:45 am »


The latest generation of German ICE trains, the ICE 4, has room for 8 bikes, and operates all the way down as far as Chur in Switzerland.



J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #214 on: January 01, 2020, 09:44:32 pm »
if i had to travel frequently on such trains, either a folding bike or two hack bikes for each end of the journey would make sense. their current implementation is a joke (and not a funny one).
Ah but then there is no demand for bikes on trains so provision is dropped entirely.

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk


Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #215 on: January 03, 2020, 04:28:03 pm »
Rather off topic, but I've just found out that the requirement for British trains to have yellow ends (introduced in the late 1950s, I believe) was dropped in 2016*, provided the train has Euro-standard high intensity headlamps.  Many of the newer Class 800 operators now have rather natty liveries without the yellow ends.  So why does GWR persist in painting them on its dark green trains?  It's not a great colour combination.

*shunting engines and snowploughs** still need the diagonal "wasp stripes".

**Network Rail's snowploughs are built on redundant steam locomotive tender chassis; they don't see all that much use!
Never tell me the odds.

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #216 on: January 03, 2020, 05:04:05 pm »
Rather off topic, but I've just found out that the requirement for British trains to have yellow ends (introduced in the late 1950s, I believe) was dropped in 2016*, provided the train has Euro-standard high intensity headlamps.  Many of the newer Class 800 operators now have rather natty liveries without the yellow ends.  So why does GWR persist in painting them on its dark green trains?  It's not a great colour combination.


Whilst the requirement for a yellow end was dropped for trains meeting the new lighting regulations, there are some exceptions where there are user-worked level crossings. In a lot of instances, the sight lines do not allow for adequate sighting of approaching trains, even with the high-powered headlamps. A dark green train against dark green vegetation isn't going to end well...


See also Greater Anglia's new Stadler class 745 and 755 "FLIRT" trains, which have to have a yellow end due to all the farm level crossings in East Anglia.
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional Track Commissaire
British Cycling Regional Circuit Commissaire

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #217 on: January 03, 2020, 06:13:59 pm »
The cynical engineering voice in the back of my head says that paint doesn't stop working due to electrical failure.

My experience in the real world says that if it's far enough away that it's not clear that there's a Fucking Great Train there, it doesn't matter what colour it is.  (I'm also aware that those driving trains and wearing orange hi-vis are likely to be from a population that finds colour somewhat more useful.)
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #218 on: January 03, 2020, 06:42:25 pm »
AIUI the yellow ends were introduced as much for low-speed situations, such as sheds or trundling past the orange army, as for level crossings and the like.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #219 on: January 06, 2020, 11:46:56 pm »
Yellow ends not required for new trains which comply with "Technical Specifications for Interoperability" regarding headlights.
Quote
Specifically by making an FOI Request to the DfT. And today I’ve had a reply:

Your enquiry in relation to yellow ends on trains has been passed to me for action. Your email identifies that trains operating on HS1 are not required to have yellow ends. You will no doubt be aware that the yellow ends were an early attempt to make trains more visible to track workers who might be on or about the line whilst trains are running. The rules of HS1 do not allow for working on the line whilst trains are operating and so yellow ends are not required.

Should a train be able to operate on both HS1 and the rest of the heavy rail network then a different arrangement would apply. The default position is that yellow ends would normally be required however new trains that comply with the Technical Specifications for Interoperability (TSIs) and have the new headlight arrangement are considered to be clearly visible. On the basis that the new headlight arrangement gives good visibility to track workers, any application for a derogation against the requirement for yellow ends is usually granted by the standards committee.
https://pipsrailway.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/they-call-me-mellow-yellow/
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #220 on: January 06, 2020, 11:52:18 pm »
Just remembered, I've seen fluorescent orange train noses in both Germany and Poland and possibly elsewhere too. I think they were fairly old trains, no idea what standards their headlights might have met.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #221 on: January 09, 2020, 02:47:14 pm »
Fluo paint is generally avoided, as it fades quite quickly with constant UV exposure and goes non-fluorescent and washed-out looking after a year or two.  If you have a hi-viz jacket and regularly hang it near a window, the same thing happens.

I don't know how often Dyno-Rod refinish their eye-popping vans.
Never tell me the odds.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #222 on: January 09, 2020, 04:51:40 pm »
Fluo paint is generally avoided, as it fades quite quickly with constant UV exposure and goes non-fluorescent and washed-out looking after a year or two.  If you have a hi-viz jacket and regularly hang it near a window, the same thing happens.

I don't know how often Dyno-Rod refinish their eye-popping vans.

can be solved by using uv-resistant clearcoat/lacquer? unlike hi-viz clothing.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #223 on: January 09, 2020, 07:33:20 pm »
can be solved by using uv-resistant clearcoat/lacquer? unlike hi-viz clothing.

Doesn't that stop it being fluorescent tho? 

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Bikes on Class 800 trains (GWR)
« Reply #224 on: January 22, 2020, 11:37:44 pm »
I went on LNER and Hull Trains IETs last weekend, which have exactly the same bike cupboards and hooks.

On both of them the guard met me, unlocked the bike storage area and closed it afterwards. That did mean I had to rush through getting the bike hung up and removing luggage, but it's much less of a worry during the journey and no luggage to evict.

On Hull Trains they actually locked the cupboard, on LNER I thought they had but when I got off I found it was closed but not locked. It did mean I could get straight off - on Hull Trains I had to wait while the guard dealt with some other passengers.

The LNER guard opened both sides of the cupboard - the short side nearest the exterior carriage door also retracts, making access to the hooks much easier. I've never seen this unlocked or open on GWR.