Author Topic: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June  (Read 2990 times)

vistaed

  • Real name: James
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TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« on: October 21, 2018, 09:58:35 pm »
'This is not a tour' 2019 - 15th & 16th June

First, on behalf of the team that organised TINAT 2018, I'd like to thank everyone that helped to make it a truly memorable weekend. We saw a wonderfully diverse mix of cyclists, drawn from many cycling scenes, descend on Llandrindod Wells in memory of Mike Hall.

As requested, we have been working quietly to agree on what TINAT rides to organise over the weekend of the 15th-16th June 2019. We reviewed a lot of feedback following the 2018 rides. Whilst overwhelmingly positive we have also listened to our critics. We had to consider the volume of work the weekend generated not only before and during the rides but particularly after the weekend. We also had to be mindful that 2019 is a Paris-Brest-Paris year and the requirements that Audax UK asked us to consider. So in 2019, we are organising 10 rides that will again run out of Llandrindod Wells in Mid Wales.

Saturday

1x 400km (multi-surface)
2x200km (multi-surface ride that runs over Saturday and Sunday)
1x300km (multi-surface)
1x300km (100% road)
1x200km (multi-surface)
1x100km (multi-surface)
1x100 mile (160km - off road)
1x100km (off road)

Sunday

1x100 (multi-surface)
1x200 (100% road)

OK, so let’s just run through this list. Firstly, the keen-eyed will notice the absence of a TINAT 600km ride this year. Basically, due to this being a Paris-Brest-Paris (PBP) year, Audax UK has requested that 600km rides be suitable as qualifying rides for PBP. A TINAT 600 is not a suitable ride!

This means that in 2019 riders would have had 40 hrs to complete a ride that in 2018 they had 42hrs and 22 minutes hours to complete. This year there were 23 finishers from 45 starters (49% DNF rate) of which only 7 would have made a 40 hour cut off time. This would have resulted in an 84.4% DNF rate. To place that in context, it was our opinion that the 45 that did start contained some of the strongest audax riders in the UK at the time. Interestingly an additional 45 people that signed up didn’t even start the ride. Don’t worry, we drank their beer for them.

Given this year's stats, and that the planned 2019 600km route was to more audacious than the 2018 route, there was a high risk that people would fail to fully appreciate the challenging nature of a TINAT 600 (as they did in 2018) and opt to use it as their PBP 600 qualifying ride. If they fail to finish TINAT in time then they would fail to qualify for PBP which was not a desirable outcome. So no TINAT 600km in 2019. However, 2020 is a different matter and we shall have time to make up for :demon:

With that out of the way, let's move on. There was a lot of unfinished business with the 400km route this year, so that will remain for 2019 in the same format as 2018. Maybe we shall tweak it for 2020.

The ‘slow’ or Brevet Popular events will not run in 2019. They didn’t really work out for a number of reasons but we won’t bore you with the detail. The slow 400km concept was to facilitate an overnight bivi. In 2019 in order to facilitate the same concept, we shall run a 2 x 200km event. Essentially you will ride a 200km Brevet Randoneeur on Saturday starting from Llandrindod, finishing up around Dolgellau. This will earn you 2 AUK points and a stack of AAA points. On Sunday morning, you will commence another 200km from up near Dolgellau and ride back to Llandrindod earning you another 2 AUK points and a stack of AAA points. The 2 x 200km rides will start early on both days to get you back to Llandrindod at (say) 7pm on Sunday rather than the 10pm as with the 2018 slow 400. The time between the end of the Saturday 200 and the start of the Sunday 200 is your own. We shall not be arranging accommodation! Why not embrace the spirit, pack a bivi kit, a hipflask and sleep out under the stars.

On Saturday there will also be a 300km multi-surface ride and a 300km run entirely on roads. They will be joined by a 200km and 100km multi-surface rides. All the rides mentioned so far on Saturday will be standard EDIT Brevet Popular EDIT Brevet Randonueurs events and eligible for AUK distance points.

This year we also had requests for rides with a much higher off-road content and we like the idea. Indeed, in our initial planning for 2018 we had explored rights-of-way that would have suited mountain bikes but we opted to play-it-safe and restrict routes to gravel tracks. However, for 2019 we propose offering both 100km and 100 mile (160km) high off-road content routes. To be honest, we still have some more work to do to ensure AUK validation of the off-road routes. So that’s Saturday explained.

On Sunday we are keeping things nice and simple. There will be two rides, a road-based 200km at Brevet Randonueurs pace and 100km multi-surface Brevet Populaire pace. Of course, there will be plenty of Saturday riders still out on the road during Sunday.

We are still working in the background to bring the events to life on the Audax UK website, and we are yet to provide full details of each individual ride on our website. However, expect more of the same as in 2018, hills, gravel, tarmac and weather with the added bonus of some proper off-road for some.

Whilst you are unable to enter the events right now, all the rides outlined above will run over the weekend of the 15th-16th June 2019. So please put them in your diary and look out for news of the entrance opening via http://tinat.cymru, this YACF forum thread, https://www.facebook.com/groups/1454317321326043/ and the AUK website itself. We expect the two off-road routes to be the last to go live.

We look forward to sharing more details over the coming months and welcoming you back to Llandrindod Wells on the 15th & 16th June 2019.
after hardship comes ease -
 www.strava.com/athletes/188220

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 06:26:30 am »
Damn, I was looking forward to the 300 on roads being a BR... I need a 300 BR with AAA points for my AAASR attempt

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 06:35:43 am »
I have a feeling that there's a typo in the OP and that all bar the last two rides mentioned (100 mile & 100 km off road rides) on the Saturday are BR, not BP.  Hopefully James can confirm.

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 07:07:41 am »
Indeed... it looks like he mistyped and meant Brevet Randonneur

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 09:34:09 am »
All rides 200km and above are BR standard, and anything below is BP standard.

As mentioned, its a typo.

Just to pre-empt a query that has been raised on the FB group. If you wish to make a week end of it, no events are duplicated, Sat and Sun 100k, 200k routes are diffetent.
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 09:37:19 am »
Only 7 made it back in under 40 hours on the 600?!

That's a surprise. As is the DNF rate. Wow!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 10:59:02 am »
Firstly, the keen-eyed will notice the absence of a TINAT 600km ride this year. Basically, due to this being a Paris-Brest-Paris (PBP) year, Audax UK has requested that 600km rides be suitable as qualifying rides for PBP. A TINAT 600 is not a suitable ride!
I read through the issues around this carefully, and spent a lot of time thinking through the appropriate, balanced response:

If you specifically asked AUK about this, and they asked you not to run the 600, then they should fuck right off.



BUT if this is your final decision, c'est la vie, let's move on, and just get on with the planning :)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2018, 11:25:29 am »
TINAT is in the middle of the 600 qualifying window, so it’s somewhat understandable.

How big will the gap be between the two 200s? Bivvyng for 10 hours doesn’t appeal!

vistaed

  • Real name: James
    • Everyday stories
Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2018, 11:26:17 am »
Sorry folks, it's a typo in the text above. I've amended the post. I'll also need to amend the post on our website and Facebook. Dam typos.
after hardship comes ease -
 www.strava.com/athletes/188220

SoreTween

  • Most of me survived the Pennine Bridleway.
Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2018, 11:37:13 am »
This year we also had requests for rides with a much higher off-road content and we like the idea. Indeed, in our initial planning for 2018 we had explored rights-of-way that would have suited mountain bikes but we opted to play-it-safe and restrict routes to gravel tracks. However, for 2019 we propose offering both 100km and 100 mile (160km) high off-road content routes.
Plans for 2019, which did not incude being in Wales mid June, ripped up to start again  :thumbsup: :D
2018 targets: Survive
There is only one infinite resource in this universe; human stupidity.

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2018, 04:06:57 pm »
'This is not a tour' 2019 - 15th & 16th JuneSo no TINAT 600km in 2019.

 :'( was looking forward to an even more gnarly 600 as I'm not doing PBP

Only 7 made it back in under 40 hours on the 600?!

Holy crap I thought I was one of the last back not one of the first 1/3.....

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2018, 04:13:28 pm »
TINAT is in the middle of the 600 qualifying window, so it’s somewhat understandable.

Can you explain that? It seems like it's just taking an event away from possible riders, without anybody getting any positives.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2018, 05:39:03 pm »
Saturday

1x 400km (multi-surface)
2x200km (multi-surface ride that runs over Saturday and Sunday)

Will these be on the same route?

(or broadly so - with a tweek at Dolgellau to make your start/finish points work?)

And broadly the same route as the 2018 400s?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2018, 06:36:03 pm »
TINAT is in the middle of the 600 qualifying window, so it’s somewhat understandable.

Can you explain that? It seems like it's just taking an event away from possible riders, without anybody getting any positives.

I think I'm with Matt on this.  While there is every encouragement to make any event within the PBP qualification period confirm to BRM regulations, it isn't necessary to enforce this.  The Organiser would have to make it clear beforehand that it wouldn't count towards PBP qualification, to prevent hard feelings and misunderstandings, and accept that the numbers of riders is likely to be diminished.  Not everyone wants to do PBP, but I suppose there is a good chance that anyone riding a 600 might at least have some aspirations to do so.

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2018, 06:45:45 pm »
TINAT is in the middle of the 600 qualifying window, so it’s somewhat understandable.

Can you explain that? It seems like it's just taking an event away from possible riders, without anybody getting any positives.

I have to agree.  As long as it's clear that it's not a PBP qualifier, I don't see a reason not to run it.

If the decision's made, though, then best move on!

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2018, 07:40:52 pm »
Only 7 made it back in under 40 hours on the 600?!

That's a surprise. As is the DNF rate. Wow!

although i managed to finish in 36h35m (with only 1.5h sleep) i wouldn't take risk riding it as a qualifier for the pbp - i was a total wreck by the time i reached the arrivee..
what an amazing ride though!

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2018, 10:23:25 pm »
How big will the gap be between the two 200s? Bivvyng for 10 hours doesn’t appeal!

How about an additional 200km loop in between instead of bivvying for the insomniac nutters? :demon:

Hang on, that's a bit like last year's 600 :facepalm:


Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2018, 10:59:26 am »
Quote from: Delph Cyclist sg2335332 date=1540203929
I think I'm with Matt on this.  While there is every encouragement to make any event within the PBP qualification period confirm to BRM regulations, it isn't necessary to enforce this.  The Organiser would have to make it clear beforehand that it wouldn't count towards PBP qualification, to prevent hard feelings and misunderstandings, and accept that the numbers of riders is likely to be diminished.  Not everyone wants to do PBP, but I suppose there is a good chance that anyone riding a 600 might at least have some aspirations to do so.

Rules is rules I'm afraid, advice was received that all rides within their qualifying period *must* be available as qualifiers.

The qualifying period for 600s is Saturday 4th May - Sunday 23rd June, that's 8 week ends.

The entire TINAT week end was moved-back two week ends specifically to avoid PBP qualification as much as possible. But even though it  now occupies the 7th w/e of the 8, as stated at begining, rules is rules.
where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2018, 11:09:52 am »
I am still unsure about the point of such rules. Someone up there still sees AUK as a subsidiary of ACP , along the lines of "we are proud to provide the most comprehensive range of qualifying rides in the developed world"... which is bizarre by looking at their website, compared to our pharaonic development  ;D

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2018, 04:29:23 pm »
Of course, you could have waited until after the 1st October BRM cutoff and then submitted them as calendar events, which means they would have to be BR only but that does feel sneaky to say the least.
“That slope may look insignificant, but it's going to be my destiny" - Fitzcarraldo

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2018, 12:10:45 am »
Rules is rules I'm afraid, advice was received that all rides within their qualifying period *must* be available as qualifiers.

The principle has always been that the organiser gets to decide such matters. AUK can nudge things by setting system defaults to BRM but thats about it;

As it stands this is an arbitrary change of policy which as far as I'm aware has not been officially announced.

Its also rather a shot-in-the-foot if its intended to maximise qualification opportunities, as it blocks the running of events which if run would free up places on qualifying BRMs for those chasing PBP places (and it seems safe to believe that riders signing up for TINIT interested in PBP would already have their qualifiers done and dusted).


Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2018, 06:34:54 am »
Wanting to see the glass half full, if a qualifier is not required, there are opportunities to do a 400 + 200 over the weekend and get a very similar experience to a 600...  :thumbsup:

Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2018, 09:13:56 am »
Wanting to see the glass half full, if a qualifier is not required, there are opportunities to do a 400 + 200 over the weekend and get a very similar experience to a 600...  :thumbsup:

I think people should just try riding the 400 ,hope the weathers as good as last year 👍before thinking they can do a 200 the day after🤔 (and I have done a Andy corless 600☠️)

vistaed

  • Real name: James
    • Everyday stories
Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2018, 04:40:02 pm »
Rules is rules I'm afraid, advice was received that all rides within their qualifying period *must* be available as qualifiers.
Its also rather a shot-in-the-foot if its intended to maximise qualification opportunities, as it blocks the running of events which if run would free up places on qualifying BRMs for those chasing PBP places (and it seems safe to believe that riders signing up for TINIT interested in PBP would already have their qualifiers done and dusted).

I think this is an interesting point. But as Blacksheep says, a message was given and we have adhered to it.
after hardship comes ease -
 www.strava.com/athletes/188220

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: TINAT 2019 - 15th & 16th June
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2018, 06:19:19 pm »
The reality is the nature of your event and it being a PBP year is that take-up of a 600 would likely not be high, but that really is not the point...