Author Topic: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?  (Read 3512 times)

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2018, 10:16:19 am »
BC didn't alienate their core membership with a rigged charity vote* and a childish rebranding that aped Macmillan.

*votes that expressed a preference were against conversion; the "don't knows" carried it because the Chairman decided they would be votes for conversion. I never renewed after that.
Never tell me the odds.

fd3

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2018, 03:56:59 pm »
Practically in the same boat as Kim except that
- my local group became Heart of England and left the CTC
- I got life membership
- I have small children so no time to go for a ride on weekends, so I'm basically exactly the right customer for the CUK rebrand (though I voted against).

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2018, 04:56:44 pm »
BC didn't alienate their core membership with a rigged charity vote* and a childish rebranding that aped Macmillan.

*votes that expressed a preference were against conversion; the "don't knows" carried it because the Chairman decided they would be votes for conversion. I never renewed after that.
I'm not attempting to defend that absurd epsiode, but really Rog you're comparing apples with martian oranges there! Answer me these:

- what has BC polled its members on in an exemplary way?
- what does CTC no longer do for you - presumably a "core member" - that BC has done, or now does?
- who are the BC "core members"? Riders sign-up for insurance, or cos they want to ride a race (run by a club) for which the agreed rules require BC membership.  This is almost totally incomparable with the CTC "core membership".


Are you going to continue to sulk in the corner with  Si?? :P
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Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2018, 07:50:05 pm »
I wasn't a member at the time of the charity conversion (I was for the re-branding), but I can appreciate why folks were so hacked off about it. The current leadership do also rather give the impression of stacking the deck in their favour (appointment of trustees etc.). That being said, for ordinary non-racing cyclists I think they're still the best option, and their campaigning does seem to have some effect. (On that note, tomorrow's the deadline to respond to the government consultation on cycling offences - we have all responded to this, haven't we? https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaign/road-justice )

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2018, 11:49:57 am »
My objection was that I already got very little for my £40 a year and charity conversion meant, legally, even fewer direct benefits for members.

Since then they've done the childish and derivative rebranding, and got rid of Chris Juden, one of their best people.  I'm glad I'm no longer a member.
Never tell me the odds.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - a Pacific bike ride
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2018, 12:59:51 pm »
What are BC doing right and CTC doing wrong?  The former aren't trying to split their mission by being both a national organisation and a provider of easy club runs for oldsters  :demon:

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2018, 01:04:25 pm »
The baffling thing with BC insurance is if you collide with another BC member during a Sportive, neither of you are insured! CUK/CTC membership does cover you regardless of who you hit.

Seems a bit odd that BC will not cover you for the most likely incident.

I doesn’t seem odd to me. It follows the principle ( reinforced by a case in a Scottish court) that by joining in a potentially hazardous sporting- type activity you accept the inherent risks.

hm, that doesn't' make sense as then any hazardous activity insurance would be impossible to obtain and therefore no one could organize such activity.

The ruling I can think of that could cause such a situation is the one that (on appeal) essentially saved scottish motorsport.
IIRC On a test day, having been refused access to the track (the driver just drove round the track access marshal) a driver drove flat out into the scruitineering bay door having apparently blacked out.
The ruling on appeal was nothing to do with hazardous activity or that the driver should have been on the track (somehow the club should have stopped him from accessing, feck knows how) but that because he was a WSKC member, he couldn't sue the club because he was effectively suing himself. (All scottish motorsport clubs promptly went to the effort and expense of becoming a limited company)

But that would surely need British Cycling's Insurance provider to be themselves?

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2018, 01:44:11 pm »
I don't understand the benefit of Race Bronze - you get a provisional race licence (and no opportunity to buy a full one) and a bunch of discounts (and no insurance at all!).

It’s the same as the difference between doing AUK events as a member vs non-member - if you do X events in a year, it works out cheaper to be a member.

My involvement in racing is never going to develop to the stage where a full licence is required.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2018, 09:02:00 am »
What are BC doing right and CTC doing wrong?  The former aren't trying to split their mission by being both a national organisation and a provider of easy club runs for oldsters  :demon:
Karla seems to have a point regarding CTC/CUK. It is both a national organisation with campaigns etc and a network of local clubs with varying but overall similar character. It's been a bit like that since 1878 of course, but perhaps there used to be more of a link between local club or "section" and HQ. BC doesn't have that local presence in the same way, it sticks to being a national organisation and at the local level a BC member's identity is with Rocket Wheelers Road Club. However, now CTC has become CUK they seem to be trying to move in the same direction, becoming a national body with local affiliations rather than members. It's a long term project though and may never happen.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2018, 10:50:41 am »
What are BC doing right and CTC doing wrong?  The former aren't trying to split their mission by being both a national organisation and a provider of easy club runs for oldsters  :demon:
Karla seems to have a point regarding CTC/CUK. It is both a national organisation with campaigns etc and a network of local clubs with varying but overall similar character. It's been a bit like that since 1878 of course, but perhaps there used to be more of a link between local club or "section" and HQ. BC doesn't have that local presence in the same way, it sticks to being a national organisation and at the local level a BC member's identity is with Rocket Wheelers Road Club. However, now CTC has become CUK they seem to be trying to move in the same direction, becoming a national body with local affiliations rather than members. It's a long term project though and may never happen.
I don't think that's right, I'm sure a higher proportion of BC members ride with their 2,500 clubs that CUK members with their few hundred groups.  I understand that even in the golden years it was never more than 20% of CTC members that rode with the groups and from my experience those that currently do identify more with that group than with the national body.  Take away the club riders from both organisations and it'd be Cycling UK that suffered less.  I think that's BC's motivation for broadening it's appeal, it's doing well on the back of recent sporting success, but not so long ago it was struggling for survival.  Without a broader membership it'll be back there when fashions change, as they will.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2018, 11:09:41 am »
I'm sure you're right about the numbers, but do people ride with "British Cycling"? They ride with a local club, such as Bristol South or whatever, which is in turn part of BC – whereas the CTC has local groups identified as "CTC Bristol" etc. So I don't think people identify with BC so much, it's primarily an organisational body which you join for certain benefits (race licence, whatever) and you ride with/for a local club which also has an existence outside of the BC framework.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2018, 12:03:53 pm »
I agree with cudzo.
You join the club (eg Cowley Road Condors). They are affiliated with BC, but you still have to join BC separately (and are entirely at liberty not to). You don't join BC - CRC.
In the same way, I can ride a club time trial without being aware of the existence of CTT (though the club will pay a levy).

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2018, 12:08:13 pm »
I know someone who used to ride with Cowley Road Condors and is now a member of Bristol South.  ;D
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

tonycollinet

  • No Longer a western province of Númenor
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2018, 07:10:15 am »
Putting all that to one side :-)

If I mainly want third party insurance there is little to choose between the two in terms of cost - what alternatives are there?

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2018, 08:07:58 am »
You don’t need to be a member of a club to join BC. You can even race as a private member if you wish.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

whosatthewheel

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2018, 08:25:25 am »
I think BC for a number of reasons is associated with professional cycling, the olympics, medals, trophies and racing at all levels. This all appeals to the demographic that has recently embraced cycling and has boomed over the past 10 years or so.

Conversely, Cycling UK (or CTC if you like) appeals to a demographic that has maintain their interest for cycling fairly stable.


Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2018, 10:05:06 am »
You don’t need to be a member of a club to join BC. You can even race as a private member if you wish.
I didn't know that, though it doesn't alter the point I was making that BC are far more reliant on their club members than CUK are.

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2018, 10:11:42 am »
If I mainly want third party insurance there is little to choose between the two in terms of cost - what alternatives are there?
First thing to do would be check any other insurances and memberships you have to see if you're already covered.  It's bundled in with my home contents policy, it specifically excludes motorised vehicles but as it doesn't mention non motorised I'm assuming they're covered. 

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2018, 01:36:43 pm »
You don’t need to be a member of a club to join BC. You can even race as a private member if you wish.
I didn't know that, though it doesn't alter the point I was making that BC are far more reliant on their club members than CUK are.
The original point is that BC don't organise clubs, so "their club members" is as relevant as "their car drivers". It feels like loads of sportivey type people don't seem to join clubs.
As far as I can tell, CUK have actual local clubs on the ground.

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2018, 01:48:00 pm »
My local club does its membership through BC so everyone who joins the club has at least a BC online account and you get a free year of actual BC membership as well (although you have to sign up for this afterwards). I imagine many other local BC-affiliated clubs are the same.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2018, 02:32:26 pm »
My local club does its membership through BC so everyone who joins the club has at least a BC online account and you get a free year of actual BC membership as well (although you have to sign up for this afterwards). I imagine many other local BC-affiliated clubs are the same.
You have to congratulate BC on this cunning marketing ruse!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2018, 11:26:32 am »
My local club does its membership through BC so everyone who joins the club has at least a BC online account and you get a free year of actual BC membership as well (although you have to sign up for this afterwards). I imagine many other local BC-affiliated clubs are the same.
That's cunning. My road club has their own membership, completely separate from BC. A local MTB club has membership through the BC portal but that doesn't obligate you to do anything further, and they didn't have any membership discount (club membership fee was only £10). I don't know about any of the other local clubs as I've not tried to join them!

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2018, 03:31:33 pm »
As far as I can tell, CUK have actual local clubs on the ground.

Do they though? There are local CTC groups that are affiliated to the national organisation but the central government of CUK seems to be quite a distinct body, mainly focused on national-level campaigning, while the local groups get on with the business of organising rides.

In this respect, the relationship seems very similar to that between clubs and BC.

Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2018, 07:39:21 am »
Currently BC has more members who are not members of clubs than those that are (personal communication from a regional board member). It’s quite likely that they join for the insurance rather than any interest in the sporting or club side of cycling.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: What Is BC doing right and CUK doing wrong?
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2018, 08:10:17 am »
And how many CUK members are active members of local groups?