Author Topic: New audax.uk site  (Read 14047 times)

Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #75 on: November 20, 2018, 07:54:02 pm »
Is the Aukweb redirect the state Phase 1 will end at?

Yes.

Phase 2 is membership backend admin and may or may not also be an AUK merch store.

Phase 3 is mapping and DIYs or possibly something involving rationalising events. But also apparently (according to an email I got from Richard) everything else that's missing. And somehow has a cost estimate less than phase 2.

Phase 4 has a date and perhaps a budget according to the chairman's Awoowoo letter but absolutely no scope and is not mentioned in any other documents that I've spotted.

As you can see, it's a tightly run ship.

Quote
MySQL... other than  :sick:  yeah that's not obscure at all which makes it off that writing a new events database was necessary, unless the original database design was horrific...

It's not clear if there is a new database or if it's just pulling everything live from AUKWeb...

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #76 on: November 20, 2018, 08:24:14 pm »
Hm... that's a bit pish if the website isn't going to have the forms to submit to the entries system at an early stage.
It should be easy enough to interface them as it seems to just be a PHP page that takes in a form POST with the RideID and your details.

A Membership backend can be pretty significant or it could be a simple spreadsheet;
I've seen both the former for a >5000 member car club the later for an 80 member hiking club.

A merch store shouldn't be much work though, you can roll them out for little more than the cost of the licences and a few hours for the IT provider to install it, all the work to load the merch up into it is the job of the shopkeeper (set that one up for the >5000 member car club years ago)

So I can see how Phase 3 could be cheaper than Phase 2,

The August statement mentions that Francis has "rebuilt" a database which I take to mean either move it from one tech to another, or sit and cry at a terrible schema* and then redesign from scratch along with data migration.
Quote
"He also noted that another volunteer stalwart, Systems Delegate Francis Cooke, had offered to rebuild an important events database so that it would interface better with the new site. The Board was very happy to accept the offer"

The Audax.Uk framework appears to be Bootstrap based though the js files look quite different to those on the CTTA site.


* Although today I triedto convince my boss that there was nothing particularly wrong with the schema of one of our databases that performs badly,
the fact it's a got a single table 9Gb in size at its core isn't the problem

That it has no partitioning on a table nearly 5 times the size that Oracle give as a rule of thumb for needing partitioned and the indexes applied by blind monkeys don't line up with the queries that we execute on it being the primary problems.

He bought those but suggesting that since the data has a single relationship and is otherwise just a document didn't seem to be enough to convince him to go to the polical nightmare of suggesting we use a document database... :grump:

So crap schema isn't the only reason to greet over a poor DB.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #77 on: November 20, 2018, 08:28:40 pm »
Tried to use the site in Firefox using a keyboard. Couldn't see where the focus was. It needs a proper accessibility audit.

This was mentioned during the Reunion Demo. It's on the List of ToDos, apparently.

Accessibility  is a fundamental and legislative requirement. It should have been in the minimal viable product. Bolting it on afterwards is so wrong in so many ways.

On public sector websites that might be the case, but on private websites thats simply not true hence why many websites are not very accessible - it'll be on the to-do list somewhere I would imagine.

Presumably they will add ARIA markup at a later point, if they've used Bootstrap, Bulma or UIKit or a similar framework it will be straightforward to add that stuff in.

Actually the law does apply to private websites. AUK is providing a service under section 29 of the Equality Act which makes them liable to an anticipatory duty to make reasonable adjustments (including making their website accessible).

The only difference between public and private is section 149 the Public Sector Equality Duty which is hard for individuals to enforce as it needs judicial review.

I wonder if I should email AUK and say "Hi, why is your website not accessible, it's harder to add on than just build in from the start". TODO is TOOLATE...

Bianchi Boy

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Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #78 on: November 20, 2018, 10:36:28 pm »
If the main problem is the old database structure then the first step should have beeen to design the new data base. I stated before that I cannot see anything hard in the data used by AUK. Now the GPS track and comparison software is a different matter.

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frankly frankie

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Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #79 on: November 21, 2018, 10:03:07 am »
So, basically, to find any of my Cambridge events requires AT LEAST 22 clicks — yes, twenty-two clicks!! — and many scrolls, simply because I was born a W  ???

FFS — I have spent an enormous amount of time and effort building a presence in Cambridge for audax, and it has been trivialised into something stuffed down the back of the sofa in one fell swoop by people not thinking about real users and use cases.  Cheers for that — that helps  >:(

I'm the last person to want to be an apologist for the new site, but actually it can be done IN 2 clicks (and 1 scroll).  Yes two.  One to click (after a hover) on 'Permanent events'.  Two to click on 'Organiser'.  Scroll down.

Of course that doesn't much help organisers named 'Lewis' or 'Neville'.

Typing Cambridge in there doesn't save any keystrokes but gives the same result

You can get by (on either site) with just typing "Cam".
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #80 on: November 21, 2018, 10:18:58 am »
Very little helps new(ish) riders looking for their first permanent and who don't know the organisers by name. Or one in a different region whilst on holiday perhaps and the local organisers are not known to them.

Yes you can go to the other website which is linked in the top of the page and find local perms but that is created by an individual and not by the club so relies on one person to maintain it and presumably pay for the website they own.

The old website could be searched by region, it seems short sighted to not be able to do this anymore especially as the information clearly exists as demonstrated by the other website.

Oh and the search function doesn't find the event number I found on the other website. I had to type the name of the event to get a result.
Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

j_a_m_e_s_

  • Prisoner 17091
    • AUK results
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #81 on: November 21, 2018, 10:19:49 am »
So, basically, to find any of my Cambridge events requires AT LEAST 22 clicks — yes, twenty-two clicks!! — and many scrolls, simply because I was born a W  ???

FFS — I have spent an enormous amount of time and effort building a presence in Cambridge for audax, and it has been trivialised into something stuffed down the back of the sofa in one fell swoop by people not thinking about real users and use cases.  Cheers for that — that helps  >:(

I'm the last person to want to be an apologist for the new site, but actually it can be done IN 2 clicks (and 1 scroll).  Yes two.  One to click (after a hover) on 'Permanent events'.  Two to click on 'Organiser'.  Scroll down.

Of course that doesn't much help organisers named 'Lewis' or 'Neville'.

That is far from obvious. I just spent 10minutes pondering what I missed, until I picked the iPad up in portrait and another option bar appeared. It is not there in landscape.

I don't know about on a phone,
Rule 77

wilkyboy

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Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #82 on: November 21, 2018, 11:48:46 am »
So, basically, to find any of my Cambridge events requires AT LEAST 22 clicks — yes, twenty-two clicks!! — and many scrolls, simply because I was born a W  ???

FFS — I have spent an enormous amount of time and effort building a presence in Cambridge for audax, and it has been trivialised into something stuffed down the back of the sofa in one fell swoop by people not thinking about real users and use cases.  Cheers for that — that helps  >:(

I'm the last person to want to be an apologist for the new site, but actually it can be done IN 2 clicks (and 1 scroll).  Yes two.  One to click (after a hover) on 'Permanent events'.  Two to click on 'Organiser'.  Scroll down.

Of course that doesn't much help organisers named 'Lewis' or 'Neville'.

Typing Cambridge in there doesn't save any keystrokes but gives the same result

You can get by (on either site) with just typing "Cam".

Fair points, both, but that's only IF riders know what they're looking for.

For people just browsing — and I get a number of entries that way — then us late-alphabet organisers are nowhere, because users habitually don't click beyond the first page or two.

TBH, if you know you're looking for Cambridge Audax rides then you'll probably start on the website; I'm interested in reaching out to newcomers to riding in this area, and that's currently a major step backwards in the new system.

And another thing — on the old site, you could search by region, which I never realised, but someone pointed out, and that's a nice feature.  On the new site — nada, that feature is missing.  Thanks, again ???
RRTY #7 done.  Need something else to do ... ah, welcome #8 8)

Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #83 on: November 21, 2018, 12:13:30 pm »
A Membership backend can be pretty significant or it could be a simple spreadsheet;
I've seen both the former for a >5000 member car club the later for an 80 member hiking club.

It's certainly not going to be the latter. I've just found this amazing document in which AUK pays £10,625 + VAT not to build anything but for a couple of people to have a brainstorm about what the membership system might look like*. Bearing in mind there's already a 20 page document detailing everything required and dividing it into user stories.

There's also another bill for £4,600 half of which is bug fixes for things that weren't built properly in the first place, and the rest is tiny changes.

This is a fucking racket.

(* In my universe this part of the work would be done over a cup of tea before we actually got on with building it...)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Dormant but requires tea
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #84 on: November 21, 2018, 12:36:12 pm »
And another thing — on the old site, you could search by region, which I never realised, but someone pointed out, and that's a nice feature.  On the new site — nada, that feature is missing.  Thanks, again ???
A map showing locations of event starts is more useful, since it allows you to see for yourself whatever region you fancy. Or at least it would be if it were sortable by distance, date, perm v calendar, etc.
The unwilling rider and the one who leaves each control in turn without reluctance, with no desire to come back, obviously cannot be making the same journey, even though their brevets are identical.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #85 on: November 21, 2018, 12:54:56 pm »
So to be clear, how long do you think this has taken? Do you really think it is value for money?

£150K seems like an exorbitant amount to me.
You've had since August to add your comments about the VFM of the work done: http://forum.audax.uk/index.php?topic=1564.225 (or on a thread near this one)

Just posting that "It's a bit crap and expensive" was never very helpful, even less so 3 months down the line.

Of course if you contributed to the work in getting this project off the ground, you have a little more right to make unhelpful complaints (but not much more ... )
Has never ridden RAAM
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Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #86 on: November 21, 2018, 01:13:52 pm »
So many IT experts who could have done this so much better.  If only AUK had known. 


frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #87 on: November 21, 2018, 02:55:16 pm »
And another thing — on the old site, you could search by region, which I never realised, but someone pointed out, and that's a nice feature.  On the new site — nada, that feature is missing.  Thanks, again ???
A map showing locations of event starts is more useful, since it allows you to see for yourself whatever region you fancy. Or at least it would be if it were sortable by distance, date, perm v calendar, etc.

Once again, that map exists and has done for several years (although it is currently a bit dysfunctional due to Google Maps clamping down and the impending New Web making that not worth fixing) complete with filters and (if you are logged in) "near me".  'OK' the warning notice and it still works - just a bit dark!
http://www.aukweb.net/events/map/
There's an equivalent one for Permanents but Phil's map is better here, due to having better data (for now) to chew on.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #88 on: November 21, 2018, 02:56:59 pm »
A Membership backend can be pretty significant or it could be a simple spreadsheet;
I've seen both the former for a >5000 member car club the later for an 80 member hiking club.

It's certainly not going to be the latter. I've just found this amazing document in which AUK pays £10,625 + VAT not to build anything but for a couple of people to have a brainstorm about what the membership system might look like*. Bearing in mind there's already a 20 page document detailing everything required and dividing it into user stories.

There's also another bill for £4,600 half of which is bug fixes for things that weren't built properly in the first place, and the rest is tiny changes.

This is a fucking racket.

(* In my universe this part of the work would be done over a cup of tea before we actually got on with building it...)

10 grand for a design session and 5 for bug fixes is still minuscule compared to the numbers bandied about here for much less.
The bosses keep discovering that seemingly small changes have tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds on their price tag, and phone calls cost a bit of dosh too...

I'm suspecting you should be a multi-millionaire or at least have been rushed off your feet by a massive glut of work due to your working practices making things relatively cheap!


So many IT experts who could have done this so much better.  If only AUK had known. 

I'm yet to find IT experts that agree on anything... which occasionally gets interesting at work.
Like the colleague who appears to be terrified of me since I rather forcefully put a point across... and lost the argument for political reasons.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #89 on: November 21, 2018, 03:07:01 pm »
The bosses keep discovering that seemingly small changes have tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds on their price tag, and phone calls cost a bit of dosh too...

This is a point I keep making whenever proposals to tweak some AUK Regulation turn up.  Many of the ride regulations and the back-end IT processes are intimately tied together.  For example current proposals to re-classify various types of events according to a new and better heirarchy (though which 'better' of several choices is unclear so far) would send shockwaves through the existing aukweb system, never mind the new developers.
From now on any new "bright idea" such as a new award - duly democratically agreed on and voted in - will have a cost implication.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #90 on: November 21, 2018, 03:45:21 pm »
The bosses keep discovering that seemingly small changes have tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds on their price tag, and phone calls cost a bit of dosh too...

This is a point I keep making whenever proposals to tweak some AUK Regulation turn up.  Many of the ride regulations and the back-end IT processes are intimately tied together.  For example current proposals to re-classify various types of events according to a new and better heirarchy (though which 'better' of several choices is unclear so far) would send shockwaves through the existing aukweb system, never mind the new developers.
From now on any new "bright idea" such as a new award - duly democratically agreed on and voted in - will have a cost implication.

And so they should be, the job of IT is to carry out business processes in the case of AUK that is defined by the regulations and administration required to facilitate them.

One of the reasons for the shock here is because the in-house development team are not time chargeable, no matter how much work we are doing, or what we are doing, we cost the same.

Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #91 on: November 21, 2018, 07:21:29 pm »
Bit annoying that there's no accreditation on any of the photos mind. I assume I'll be getting a cheque instead?

Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #92 on: November 21, 2018, 07:58:56 pm »
Bit annoying that there's no accreditation on any of the photos mind. I assume I'll be getting a cheque instead?

What will you spend your 340k on?

Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #93 on: November 21, 2018, 08:03:00 pm »
Tried everything and can’t log on. Help!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Dormant but requires tea
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #94 on: November 21, 2018, 08:04:41 pm »
Bit annoying that there's no accreditation on any of the photos mind. I assume I'll be getting a cheque instead?

What will you spend your 340k on?
Event entries of course!
The unwilling rider and the one who leaves each control in turn without reluctance, with no desire to come back, obviously cannot be making the same journey, even though their brevets are identical.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Dormant but requires tea
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #95 on: November 21, 2018, 08:06:31 pm »
Tried everything and can’t log on. Help!
This was raised somewhere in the thread, IIRC the answer is you have to go back to the old site, alter your password and used your new password to access the new site. That's assuming you're still using your original AUK-issued password.
The unwilling rider and the one who leaves each control in turn without reluctance, with no desire to come back, obviously cannot be making the same journey, even though their brevets are identical.

Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #96 on: November 21, 2018, 08:08:14 pm »
Tried everything and can’t log on. Help!
This was raised somewhere in the thread, IIRC the answer is you have to go back to the old site, alter your password and used your new password to access the new site. That's assuming you're still using your original AUK-issued password.

Thanks. Tried that and it didn’t work. I assume it’s still your membership number only. No letters.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Dormant but requires tea
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #97 on: November 21, 2018, 08:24:15 pm »
Tried everything and can’t log on. Help!
This was raised somewhere in the thread, IIRC the answer is you have to go back to the old site, alter your password and used your new password to access the new site. That's assuming you're still using your original AUK-issued password.

Thanks. Tried that and it didn’t work. I assume it’s still your membership number only. No letters.
Yes, I think so. Well number only worked for me.
The unwilling rider and the one who leaves each control in turn without reluctance, with no desire to come back, obviously cannot be making the same journey, even though their brevets are identical.

Jaded

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Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #98 on: November 21, 2018, 08:40:57 pm »
A Membership backend can be pretty significant or it could be a simple spreadsheet;
I've seen both the former for a >5000 member car club the later for an 80 member hiking club.

It's certainly not going to be the latter. I've just found this amazing document in which AUK pays £10,625 + VAT not to build anything but for a couple of people to have a brainstorm about what the membership system might look like*. Bearing in mind there's already a 20 page document detailing everything required and dividing it into user stories.

There's also another bill for £4,600 half of which is bug fixes for things that weren't built properly in the first place, and the rest is tiny changes.

This is a fucking racket.

(* In my universe this part of the work would be done over a cup of tea before we actually got on with building it...)

10 grand for a design session and 5 for bug fixes is still minuscule compared to the numbers bandied about here for much less.
The bosses keep discovering that seemingly small changes have tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds on their price tag, and phone calls cost a bit of dosh too...

I'm suspecting you should be a multi-millionaire or at least have been rushed off your feet by a massive glut of work due to your working practices making things relatively cheap!


So many IT experts who could have done this so much better.  If only AUK had known. 

I'm yet to find IT experts that agree on anything... which occasionally gets interesting at work.
Like the colleague who appears to be terrified of me since I rather forcefully put a point across... and lost the argument for political reasons.

10k may seem minuscule, but it has to be seen in its proper context.

That is not the context of comparing with other IT projects but the context of the reserves and income of the organisation procuring the work for 10k.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

bhoot

  • MemSec (ex-Mrs RRtY)
Re: New audax.uk site
« Reply #99 on: November 21, 2018, 09:13:27 pm »
Tried everything and can’t log on. Help!
This was raised somewhere in the thread, IIRC the answer is you have to go back to the old site, alter your password and used your new password to access the new site. That's assuming you're still using your original AUK-issued password.

Thanks. Tried that and it didn’t work. I assume it’s still your membership number only. No letters.

The problem comes if you did change your password, but then continued to use your original system generated password. The new site only accepts the one you changed it to. And yes - no letters, just numbers please.

If you still have a problem pm me or better still write to membership@audax.uk with your real name and number and I am sure we can sort it out.