Author Topic: Really strong front skewer.  (Read 1172 times)

Really strong front skewer.
« on: January 11, 2019, 11:31:35 am »
I need a reaaly strong front skewer. Why? Because I use one to keep the fron forks attached to the bike rack I have inside the car. However with the leverage exerted by the bike when I drive round corners unless I have tigtened it precisely the skewer bends. I would therefore like to get something that is not made of the standard mild sreel that would have a bit more longevity.
Any ideas anyone please?
Reine de la Fauche


Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2019, 12:15:33 pm »
I use a couple of these when the bikes are in the car.  No chance of bending!

Delta Unisex's Hitch Pro Travel Mount for Bike

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2019, 12:15:44 pm »

Any ideas anyone please?

- Use a normal threaded axle; keep a ring-spanner (+ spare!) in the boot; accept your loss of QR feature?

- Drive slower round corners??
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2019, 12:26:28 pm »
Buy a Royce skewer - they are made of stainless steel which should be a bit stronger and are beautifully made.  Might be cheaper to buy a better designed bike rack though.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2019, 12:27:11 pm »
Shimano QR skewers are tougher than most.

Or strap the bike to the sides of the car, so the skewer isn't taking all of the force?

Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2019, 12:28:08 pm »
Just wondering if it's bending skewers it it exerting an unusual and excessive force on the forks?

Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2019, 12:29:41 pm »
What are you clamping them to? If it's a homemade jobby, perhaps adding some cheapo front hubs to clamp to might be the answer.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2019, 12:49:36 pm »
Or a block of wood, with a hole drilled through it?

Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2019, 02:09:38 pm »

Any ideas anyone please?

- Use a normal threaded axle; keep a ring-spanner (+ spare!) in the boot; accept your loss of QR feature?

- Drive slower round corners??

Hmm, I think I might try this https://www.seasucker.com/collections/replacement-parts/products/replacement-skewer-assembly.
The rack is a standard Citroen part and I do like to keep my bike inside the car. The problem is that I cant always do the QR up tight enough as I have small hands and in winter in particular suffer from arthritis. That means that that to much of the skewer is subject to a force it wasn't designed for and it bends - always at the QR end. I don't drive especially quickly  O:-), mini roundabouts seem to be the worst :demon:.
Reine de la Fauche


Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2019, 02:59:55 pm »
The problem is that I cant always do the QR up tight enough as I have small hands and in winter in particular suffer from arthritis. That means that that to much of the skewer is subject to a force it wasn't designed for and it bends - always at the QR end.

In which case, a non-QR skewer would seem like an improvement?  Much more clamping force available from an allen key type...
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Tim Hall

  • I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2019, 03:10:52 pm »
The problem is that I cant always do the QR up tight enough as I have small hands and in winter in particular suffer from arthritis. That means that that to much of the skewer is subject to a force it wasn't designed for and it bends - always at the QR end.

In which case, a non-QR skewer would seem like an improvement?  Much more clamping force available from an allen key type...
Or deploy a tactical bit of suitably sized tube to extend the QR lever.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2019, 04:06:30 pm »
The problem is that I cant always do the QR up tight enough as I have small hands and in winter in particular suffer from arthritis. That means that that to much of the skewer is subject to a force it wasn't designed for and it bends - always at the QR end.

In which case, a non-QR skewer would seem like an improvement?  Much more clamping force available from an allen key type...
Or deploy a tactical bit of suitably sized tube to extend the QR lever.

IME that sort of thing can damage the cheese in an open-cam type.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2019, 06:26:42 pm »
Shimano QR skewers are tougher than most.

Or strap the bike to the sides of the car, so the skewer isn't taking all of the force?

I was going to mention the same things. In any event an internal cam skewer, well lubricated, failing that a 'long bolt' type.

  BTW if you are not capable of fully tightening the skewer, is its strength relevant? in any event neither the skewer or the fork ends are intended to see any local bending loads; either (or both) could break.    Putting a strap across (essentially so that the bikes can't fall over even if the skewer is loose) is a good idea; it avoids any weird loads on the forks too.

I'd also note that the position and orientation of the lever makes a big difference to how easy it is to tighten it; if the fixing is at the front of the boot,  is it easier to kneel on the seats and lean over to get at the QR lever? 


Also is the mounting well designed?  A well tightened QR skewer exerts about half a tonne of clamping force, and this is reacted by the wheel fittings in the car. If they are not well designed and/or are made of low strength materials, you might be squashing them with the skewer before they are tight enough to hold the bike.

cheers

Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2019, 10:58:51 am »
The rack itself is a Citroen part. It bolts to the floor when you have removed one of the back seats (this is an old style Citroen Picasso); known in our household as "The Blob". It is like this https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.desiraparts.com%2Fpub%2Ffiles%2FCitroen%2F.thumbnails%2F1425310949_941677_w366_x_h278_3e9c97fe-baab-41b6-b452-9848a5a86fdd_w450_h400.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.desiraparts.com%2Fproduct%2FInterior_Bicycle_Carrier_-_C8%252C_Xsara_Picasso_941677&docid=u9vYwhN4H-RuhM&tbnid=o8Nh5gARt2t0XM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjUjuCniujfAhUJTxUIHWnxC3IQMwg9KAAwAA..i&w=366&h=278&bih=657&biw=1366&q=citroen%20xsara%20picasso%20%20bike%20rack%20inside&ved=0ahUKEwjUjuCniujfAhUJTxUIHWnxC3IQMwg9KAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8
So as well as holding the bike it has a place for the wheel and everything straps down. I don't really want to change it as the car is 15 yars old and quite high mileage so who knows when it will finally become unecomomic to repair? I think a Hope skewer might be made of something other than cheese so will try that. Thamks everyone for the input.
Reine de la Fauche


Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2019, 12:17:03 pm »
hope skewer = external cam = low clamping force = not much good for this job

cheers

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2019, 02:13:52 pm »
Maybe something like the DT Swiss RWS skewer could be better? Easier to get tight enough, without as much force from your hands?

handcyclist

  • watch for my signal
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2019, 02:36:48 pm »
There is something wrong with the fork clamping mechanism here (or the way the skewer is closed - but they don't need to be done up gorilla tight. Enough for the lever to make a mark on your palm is plenty.).

The skewer is not designed to take much force perpendicular to the skewer body. Its purpose is to put an axial load on the forks, which is then reacted by the axle locknuts (in use) or the clamping block (in the carrier).

Forces at right angles to the skewer should be carried by the axle/clamp, as the forks should engage directly with these.

As a consequence, if the skewer is closed, it should bear very little perpendicular force. If it's bending, the axle/clamp is not engaged properly. The skewer is probably bending as a result of movement under (car) braking. 

A stronger skewer may fix the problem, but I'd investigate the fork/clamp interface. Eg is the 'axle' part of the clamp too small (diameter or width) for the fork dropout?
Doubt is is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2019, 03:31:08 pm »
A couple of long bungee cords, over the bike frame, and secured to retaining rings on the boot floor? That would help keep the bike steady.

Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2019, 04:15:31 pm »
A couple of long bungee cords, over the bike frame, and secured to retaining rings on the boot floor? That would help keep the bike steady.
Hmm, could try that as well. The problem is leverage exerted on a part not designed for it. When in place on a bike there is hardly any leverage on the skewer but here, if I'm a bit slip shod in tightening it that is not the case and it doesn't cope withe forces it's not designed for.
Reine de la Fauche


Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2019, 05:33:32 pm »
If you want something more user-friendly than an allen key / security skewer (which ought to give you a lot more clamping force), how about a suitable threaded rod with some wingnuts?
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

handcyclist

  • watch for my signal
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2019, 07:17:18 pm »
A couple of long bungee cords, over the bike frame, and secured to retaining rings on the boot floor? That would help keep the bike steady.
Hmm, could try that as well. The problem is leverage exerted on a part not designed for it. When in place on a bike there is hardly any leverage on the skewer but here, if I'm a bit slip shod in tightening it that is not the case and it doesn't cope withe forces it's not designed for.

The engineer in me is asking why you can't fix the fundamental problem rather than try a workaround? If you think about the way the skewer works with a wheel and apply that to the car mount ..... ???
Doubt is is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2019, 10:01:56 pm »
A couple of long bungee cords, over the bike frame, and secured to retaining rings on the boot floor? That would help keep the bike steady.
Hmm, could try that as well. The problem is leverage exerted on a part not designed for it. When in place on a bike there is hardly any leverage on the skewer but here, if I'm a bit slip shod in tightening it that is not the case and it doesn't cope withe forces it's not designed for.

Do try the bungee cords / ratchet strap. Then the qr skewer wont be recieving any excessive force as the bike will be secure from falling over.. Depending on car boot layout or bike geometry, do feed a bungee / ratchet strap over each seat stay, around the seat post then anchor it to a convenient tie down strap on the boot floor.

I do a similar arrangement with my bike inside my Honda Jazz, I'll try and dig out some photos of the setup if that helps

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2019, 10:13:35 am »
Here is my patented  bike holder upperer, basically a length of wood, with a wooden block with a whole drilled it in, and an old q/r axle fitted.  I then secure using an old q/r skewer.

Ratchet luggage straps secured around each seat stay, these then get lashed to the tie downs in the boot floor.  Car is a 2013 reg Honda Jazz, bike is a large size 29er mtb, hence needing to take the seat post off to get in the car other wise the saddle almost scrapes the head lining. 

Mark two of my bike holder upperer will be to have a similar block of wood to hold the rear of the bike, with the rear wheel taken off... Bike should then fit in without needing to remove the seat post :-)

Hope this helps.


Re: Really strong front skewer.
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2019, 09:59:17 pm »
Here is my patented  bike holder upperer, basically a length of wood, with a wooden block with a whole drilled it in, and an old q/r axle fitted.  I then secure using an old q/r skewer.

Ratchet luggage straps secured around each seat stay, these then get lashed to the tie downs in the boot floor.  Car is a 2013 reg Honda Jazz, bike is a large size 29er mtb, hence needing to take the seat post off to get in the car other wise the saddle almost scrapes the head lining. 

Mark two of my bike holder upperer will be to have a similar block of wood to hold the rear of the bike, with the rear wheel taken off... Bike should then fit in without needing to remove the seat post :-)

Hope this helps.



Hmm - food for thought.
Reine de la Fauche