Author Topic: Stud time?  (Read 1577 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Stud time?
« on: January 17, 2019, 10:06:31 pm »

So Who's fitting studded tyres this evening ready for the impending cold snap?

Had lots of hail and some snow here this evening. Forecast is now for 4 cold, but clear days. I've got the spare wheels with the studs ready. Haven't fitted them yet, as I'm not sure if I will be venturing out on the ice just yet.

Anyone else?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2019, 10:08:50 pm »
Mine have been fitted to the pub bike for a few weeks*, and were actually used today for a slightly icy commute :)


*The luxury of having a spare bike
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2019, 10:11:14 pm »
Mine have been fitted to the pub bike for a few weeks*, and were actually used today for a slightly icy commute :)


*The luxury of having a spare bike

In theory I could fit the studs to the Brompton, as the 'spare' bike, but it's such a faff with the rear hub. I'm pondering for next winter building up a real simple single speed hack bike as a winter commuter, fit the studs to it from about early December until March.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 10:47:14 pm »
What do you do about the studs scoring the frame when a Brompton is folded?

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 10:48:44 pm »
What do you do about the studs scoring the frame when a Brompton is folded?

Leather padding.

http://b.42q.eu/2016/12/07/a-bromptons-winter-boots/

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 10:59:03 pm »
My MTB has been standing by for stud duty since December.  I should have used it this afternoon, or at least used the road rather than the shared-use bollocks.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

tonycollinet

  • No Longer a western province of Númenor
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2019, 09:24:08 pm »
On the trike today - one day late





Re: Stud time?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2019, 04:20:50 pm »
Going back to the original question, I've ordered studded tyres for my Brompton on the basis of the discussion above, and I already have them for the fixed that I often ride for Audaxes etc. in winter. However, it seems a bit mild, here in the balmy south east, for studs yet, so my order was more on a Be Prepared basis.

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2019, 07:22:30 pm »
Nope.
If it's icy or snowy, no cycling for me. Can't risk knackering the knee up again which had surgery a few years back.

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2019, 09:48:29 pm »
When I was living just outside Luton, on my commuter bike I'd simply switch the wheels, as I had a spare set all ready with the Marathon Winter Plus tyres on.

Now I've moved to the south coast, it doesn't seem to get anything like as cold so haven't had to worry about any ice on the roads.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2019, 09:31:07 am »
Really wish I had the bike with the studded tyres.
Loads of sodding ice on the fen roads.

I doubt I could fit marathon winters on the CDF. It is shod with 37mm hypers atm and those only just fit under the mudguards. MWs are 35mm but I seem to recall that they measure tall.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2019, 10:09:53 am »
I doubt I could fit marathon winters on the CDF. It is shod with 37mm hypers atm and those only just fit under the mudguards. MWs are 35mm but I seem to recall that they measure tall.

Schwalbe Marathon Winter come in 30mm too:-

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/schwalbe-winter-active-spike-tyre-709890?product_shape=black&article_size=700x30C
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2019, 10:21:13 am »
I doubt I could fit marathon winters on the CDF. It is shod with 37mm hypers atm and those only just fit under the mudguards. MWs are 35mm but I seem to recall that they measure tall.

Schwalbe Marathon Winter come in 30mm too:-

https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/schwalbe-winter-active-spike-tyre-709890?product_shape=black&article_size=700x30C

Ther'es the cheap Winter and the more expensive Marathon Winter
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/schwalbe-marathon-winter-plus-performance-line-spike-tyre-2671420

I noticed that SPA Cycles have deals on studded tyres just now.
Though if I order now, I'll probably get them after the ice has gone...

That said, the alternative might be riding 200s on a 29er MTB with 2.25" Ice Spiker Pros; great on ice, reasonably good on snow, passable on tar, terrible on tram lines...

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2019, 10:34:03 am »
Ah, yes, not a Marathon (have edited my post) but still good enough if the other option is nothing.

I'll look to get a pair of them at some point (under £20 a tyre is nice but £8.99 P&P from Rose isn't so much). Can't find them anywhere in the UK that sells them with only 10 minutes of googling. Anyone? (Note that I specifically mean the 30mm Schwalbe Winter tyres.)

[EDIT] Bike-Discount have them: https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/schwalbe-winter-118-spikes-28x1.20-wire-631607?currency=3&delivery_country=190 and £5.35 P&P

I've got my old 35mm Marathon Winters to get rid off as they won't fit on the new commuting/hack bike. Hopefully I can use the same wheels (if I give the rear a new cassette).

[EDIT] Actually, just checked and new bike can take tyres to 40mm so I may be able to keep my existing 35mm Marathon Winters, so no urgency in ordering the 30mm Winters. I'll wait for better deals in the next year and also create an adapter so I can switch the front dynohub wheels easily (current one is a SON, old wheel has a Shimano dynohub).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2019, 10:46:22 am »
Any idea what the difference is between the Schalbe Winter and the Marathon winter?

The pic of those in the rose advert look identical to the marathons but with some studs missing. I have a packet of studs.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2019, 10:51:05 am »
The lack of 'Marathon' in the name probably means it hasn't got the extra 'SmartGuard' puncture protection layer (not surprising that has to go to get the tyre down to under 35mm).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2019, 12:12:48 pm »
AIUI the Marathon Winter has twice as many studs.  The Winter probably rolls somewhat better on tarmac as a result, and would seem like a good choice for falling-off-your-bike-on-black-ice prevention rather than deliberately riding in serious ice and snow.

Schwalbe appear to have further complicated matters by launching a Marathon Winter Plus.  This appears to have the full Marathon Plus level of puncture protection.  I expect it's second only to Ice Spikers as Good Training™.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2019, 12:23:17 pm »
what are the best conditions for studs? is it fresh powder and or ice that is crushed down? i'm guessing that for sheet ice ie water that has frozen clear they don't work, or am i wrong? m I right the studs need 'bedding-in' with some km?

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2019, 12:28:37 pm »
what are the best conditions for studs? is it fresh powder and or ice that is crushed down? i'm guessing that for sheet ice ie water that has frozen clear they don't work, or am i wrong?

Other way round IME, I find that Marathon Winters work well on solid ice, patches of black ice, frozen rutted compacted snow/ice, fresh snow up to a few cm.

What they don't really work well on is snow that's more than an inch deep. For that standard MTB knobblies are best.

I had no problem doing 25kph+ along here: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/IMG_9500.JPG

m I right the studs need 'bedding-in' with some km?

I never bothered and mine have survived 200km+ of riding without losing a single stud. Sometimes I only need the studs for the first 1km of my commute until I hit more popular roads that have been gritted and cleared by the traffic and that remaining 10km could have been done on normal tyres.

Sometimes I'll need them for 10km+ of riding as nothing has been out to clear the roads, or I've purposely picked a route like that (i.e. Richmond Park when they close it to cars as the hills get too slippery for most cars).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2019, 12:34:40 pm »
what are the best conditions for studs? is it fresh powder and or ice that is crushed down? i'm guessing that for sheet ice ie water that has frozen clear they don't work, or am i wrong? m I right the studs need 'bedding-in' with some km?

They work spectacularly well on sheet ice.  You can ride (carefully, no hard braking or cornering) almost as if it isn't there (and then put a foot down and fall on your arse because your shoes have no grip).

The studs themselves do little on virgin snow - ideally you need a big low-pressure knobbly tyre (think fatbike) for that.  And of course you still want the studs for any ice that's underneath the virgin snow.  The Ice Spiker is a normal MTB-size compromise that mostly works on any kind of white stuff, but its rolling resistance is incredibly high and it feels pretty vague on clear tarmac compared to the Marathon Winter (and if you're going off-road, its grip on dry rock is disappointing).

Compacted snow is mostly ridable on any studded tyre, but if it's relatively fresh you can get to the point where the tyre grips well enough, but the layers of snow shear and take your wheel with it.  This is more like sliding on mud than on sheet ice, so if you're used to off-road riding you're relatively unlikely to end up on your arse.

The BRITISH speciality of slush that's been rutted by motor vehicle tyres and then re-frozen solid overnight is the nasty one:  The studs will grip well enough on the ice, and if it's only a little bit frozen you can generally plough through the ruts.  But if it's really solid it comes down to wheel diameter vs depth of rut, and you can tramline on deeper ruts just as well as you would on a rutted muddy track that's dried solid.  Some educated guesswork required not to embarass yourself.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2019, 01:09:53 pm »
I put Nokian Hakkapeliittas (106 studs) on yesterday.  I will need them tonight.
Never tell me the odds.

Re: Stud time?
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2019, 01:14:25 pm »
Really wish I had the bike with the studded tyres.
Loads of sodding ice on the fen roads.

I doubt I could fit marathon winters on the CDF. It is shod with 37mm hypers atm and those only just fit under the mudguards. MWs are 35mm but I seem to recall that they measure tall.

I've got 35mm Marathon winters on my CDF. It's fitted with Flinger Deluxe Mudguards from Spa Cycles and there's plenty of room
Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2019, 01:23:10 pm »
what are the best conditions for studs? is it fresh powder and or ice that is crushed down? i'm guessing that for sheet ice ie water that has frozen clear they don't work, or am i wrong? m I right the studs need 'bedding-in' with some km?

They work spectacularly well on sheet ice.  You can ride (carefully, no hard braking or cornering) almost as if it isn't there (and then put a foot down and fall on your arse because your shoes have no grip).

Agreed. I have some Kahtoona nano spikes, which I wear when cycling with spiked tyres, means you can put your foot down on the sheet ice without falling over... Learnt that the hardway...

Comedy off roading in the woods in the dark on a studded brompton, I accidentally ended up cycling onto a small lake, I got about 2m, and then turned round and got off it Damn Quick™.

I bed my spikes in, largely as I tend to put them on at the first frost forecast, and keep them on all winter. This winter I haven't, as I have a spare set of wheels with them ready. I lost 3 studs in about 1000km last winter.

Quote
The studs themselves do little on virgin snow - ideally you need a big low-pressure knobbly tyre (think fatbike) for that.  And of course you still want the studs for any ice that's underneath the virgin snow.  The Ice Spiker is a normal MTB-size compromise that mostly works on any kind of white stuff, but its rolling resistance is incredibly high and it feels pretty vague on clear tarmac compared to the Marathon Winter (and if you're going off-road, its grip on dry rock is disappointing).

For this sort of area (UK/NL), the actual issue is that when you have about 30mm of snow, what is underneath is a sheet of ice, if you are riding anything but a fat bike, you are going to go straight through the snow to the ice below, then fall over. This is where spikes are great.

Quote
Compacted snow is mostly ridable on any studded tyre, but if it's relatively fresh you can get to the point where the tyre grips well enough, but the layers of snow shear and take your wheel with it.  This is more like sliding on mud than on sheet ice, so if you're used to off-road riding you're relatively unlikely to end up on your arse.

Not had that as an issue yet. How deep does the snow need to be for this to happen?

Quote

The BRITISH speciality of slush that's been rutted by motor vehicle tyres and then re-frozen solid overnight is the nasty one:  The studs will grip well enough on the ice, and if it's only a little bit frozen you can generally plough through the ruts.  But if it's really solid it comes down to wheel diameter vs depth of rut, and you can tramline on deeper ruts just as well as you would on a rutted muddy track that's dried solid.  Some educated guesswork required not to embarass yourself.

Ah, sastrugi. It's what makes cycling on ice with studded tyres *REALLY* interesting. Carry spare underwear...

There is something great about being able to cycle into work on the day when half the office has called in as working from home, and the rest have taken public transport...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2019, 01:25:07 pm »
Ah, yes, not a Marathon (have edited my post) but still good enough if the other option is nothing.

I'll look to get a pair of them at some point (under £20 a tyre is nice but £8.99 P&P from Rose isn't so much). Can't find them anywhere in the UK that sells them with only 10 minutes of googling. Anyone? (Note that I specifically mean the 30mm Schwalbe Winter tyres.)


I gave a hint in my reply, here's the link for 700x30c
https://spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s142p3917/SCHWALBE-Winter

Spa also have the Snow Stud in 700x38
and the Marathon Winters are 700x35


I could probably do with seeing if the 26" Spiker Pro's I have hanging up somewhere would fit my 26" tourer, but it'll be a guards off job... Although given the amount of snow they pick up judging by the suspension bridge on my MTBs after a snow ride mudguards are probably a liability in the snow anyway.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stud time?
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2019, 01:30:48 pm »
I could probably do with seeing if the 26" Spiker Pro's I have hanging up somewhere would fit my 26" tourer, but it'll be a guards off job... Although given the amount of snow they pick up judging by the suspension bridge on my MTBs after a snow ride mudguards are probably a liability in the snow anyway.

Depends on the snow. Not all snow is created equally. Some snow will clump up together, and will clog up on your mudguards. Other times when it's slushy, with gritted roads, riding without the mudguards, or at least an arse saver, you will end up with your back covered in crap.

We joke about native arctic peoples having 50 words for snow, there's a reason for that![1]

J

[1]The English language has lots of words for rain...
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/