Author Topic: LEL Entry  (Read 3742 times)

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2019, 05:05:35 pm »
"• Anyone who has completed a LRM validated event in the calendar years 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020"
One (or more) each year for 4 years?
In 2016, 2017 and 2018 there's an average of 1700 completions annually (recorded on http://www.randonneursmondiaux.org/35-Compilation.html
Is PBP an LRM validated event? Guess not - only 197 LRM homolgations in 2015.

Yes, you'll need one in each year. Looking back four years from last week, about 170 people would qualify. The organisers of PBP choose to not seek LRM validation for their event, which lowers the numbers somewhat.

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2019, 05:07:53 pm »
Will you positively discriminating and guarenteeing women a place again?

No. That was an opportunity borne of circumstance, and that circumstance shouldn't arise this time. I'm reluctant to offer it from the outset - it feels a little unfair.

Fidgetbuzz

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2019, 06:05:52 pm »
• Anyone who brings a spouse or immediate family relative (parent, child, sibling) to volunteer, both at London and another control, for at least three full days

Make no mistake .. anyone claiming a place through this route .. will not receive a brevet card or a  refund of their entry fee  .. if the volunteer does not actually appear at Registration Day  with  the rider and their  proof of identity. 

And .. should the volunteer fail to complete the agreed 3 days of support then the ride will not be validated.

This is not going to be a sneaky way of getting a place, if the agreement is then not honoured .

I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2019, 09:22:17 pm »
I like your good cop/bad cop vibe with Danial, FB :)

dod

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2019, 09:43:35 pm »
• Anyone who brings a spouse or immediate family relative (parent, child, sibling) to volunteer, both at London and another control, for at least three full days

Make no mistake .. anyone claiming a place through this route .. will not receive a brevet card or a  refund of their entry fee  .. if the volunteer does not actually appear at Registration Day  with  the rider and their  proof of identity. 

And .. should the volunteer fail to complete the agreed 3 days of support then the ride will not be validated.

This is not going to be a sneaky way of getting a place, if the agreement is then not honoured .

I can see this starting some good family discussions after the finish, about who had the toughest time!  ;D

Graeme

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2019, 10:46:21 pm »
Alwyn, you're going to need a sticky reply to the "What is LRM?" question. This link http://bfy.tw/M2Mq might help.
37. Because travel is the finest educational system of all; and cycling the cheapest, easiest, and most educational means of travel - Kuklos' 39 Articles

mattc

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2019, 06:49:16 am »
"• Anyone who has completed a LRM validated event in the calendar years 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020"
One (or more) each year for 4 years?
In 2016, 2017 and 2018 there's an average of 1700 completions annually (recorded on http://www.randonneursmondiaux.org/35-Compilation.html
Is PBP an LRM validated event? Guess not - only 197 LRM homolgations in 2015.

Yes, you'll need one in each year. Looking back four years from last week, about 170 people would qualify. The organisers of PBP choose to not seek LRM validation for their event, which lowers the numbers somewhat.
Ooh - 4 years of riding LRMs? That's a new one - you have to be different, don't you? :)

Purely out of interest, what's the thinking behind that specific requirement?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2019, 07:46:47 am »
• Anyone who brings a spouse or immediate family relative (parent, child, sibling) to volunteer, both at London and another control, for at least three full days

Make no mistake .. anyone claiming a place through this route .. will not receive a brevet card or a  refund of their entry fee  .. if the volunteer does not actually appear at Registration Day  with  the rider and their  proof of identity. 

And .. should the volunteer fail to complete the agreed 3 days of support then the ride will not be validated.

This is not going to be a sneaky way of getting a place, if the agreement is then not honoured .

If someone is volunteering in Edinburgh or one of the northern controls you’re going to make them come all the way to London to registration with their othe half who is riding. Doesn’t sound very reasonable for the volunteer really.

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2019, 08:09:14 am »
Roger and I have been bouncing this around this week, and we've settled on the following.

The following groups will get guaranteed entry:

• London Edinburgh London 2017 and Windsor Chester Windsor 2019 volunteers
• Audax UK or Audax Ireland members who were members on 12 September 2018, and remain members on 1 January 2021
• Anyone who has completed a LRM validated event in the calendar years 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020
• Anyone who brings a spouse or immediate family relative (parent, child, sibling) to volunteer, both at London and another control, for at least three full days

For everyone else entry will be by ballot. There will also be 400 early entry places available for a £100 deposit, from about October this year.


So it could be rather important to renew your membership in a timely manner (IE before the end of December 2018, 2019, and 2020).  You wouldn't want to leave a gap.  Under a previous MemSec's regime, anyone who allowed their membership to lapse was deemed to have failed under the clause "remain members on 1 January". 

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2019, 08:25:56 am »
• Anyone who brings a spouse or immediate family relative (parent, child, sibling) to volunteer, both at London and another control, for at least three full days

Make no mistake .. anyone claiming a place through this route .. will not receive a brevet card or a  refund of their entry fee  .. if the volunteer does not actually appear at Registration Day  with  the rider and their  proof of identity. 

And .. should the volunteer fail to complete the agreed 3 days of support then the ride will not be validated.

This is not going to be a sneaky way of getting a place, if the agreement is then not honoured .

If someone is volunteering in Edinburgh or one of the northern controls you’re going to make them come all the way to London to registration with their othe half who is riding. Doesn’t sound very reasonable for the volunteer really.

You're either missunderstanding or missconstruing what has been said.

In the case of a riders family member being a volunteer what generally happens is that they accompany the rider to the start & if assisting at another control make their own way there, or get free transport in one of the Bag Drop vans. That's certainly what happened in 2017.

I've no doubt alternative arrangements could be made in the scenario you describe, but I'm with FB on this, most people are honest, but there will always be one or two who will prepared to try and subvert the system, e.g. by claiming a volunteer is a relative when they are not in order to gaurantee entry.

I think it's enterily reasonable for the Team to have checks in place. I'm sure in the situation you described the checks could be managed differently.

I should add I volunteered in 2017 - it was hard work, but a fantastic experience & something I would highly recomend if you're not entering LEL.

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2019, 09:04:40 am »
• Anyone who brings a spouse or immediate family relative (parent, child, sibling) to volunteer, both at London and another control, for at least three full days

Make no mistake .. anyone claiming a place through this route .. will not receive a brevet card or a  refund of their entry fee  .. if the volunteer does not actually appear at Registration Day  with  the rider and their  proof of identity. 

And .. should the volunteer fail to complete the agreed 3 days of support then the ride will not be validated.

This is not going to be a sneaky way of getting a place, if the agreement is then not honoured .

If someone is volunteering in Edinburgh or one of the northern controls you’re going to make them come all the way to London to registration with their othe half who is riding. Doesn’t sound very reasonable for the volunteer really.

You're either missunderstanding or missconstruing what has been said.

In the case of a riders family member being a volunteer what generally happens is that they accompany the rider to the start & if assisting at another control make their own way there, or get free transport in one of the Bag Drop vans. That's certainly what happened in 2017.

I've no doubt alternative arrangements could be made in the scenario you describe, but I'm with FB on this, most people are honest, but there will always be one or two who will prepared to try and subvert the system, e.g. by claiming a volunteer is a relative when they are not in order to gaurantee entry.

I think it's enterily reasonable for the Team to have checks in place. I'm sure in the situation you described the checks could be managed differently.

I should add I volunteered in 2017 - it was hard work, but a fantastic experience & something I would highly recomend if you're not entering LEL.

Nope. I haven’t misunderstood anything at all. I’m just highlighting a scenario that would need a different approach. No one would want to discourage volunteers at all but to expect someone to travel several hundred miles unnecessarily would do just that. I’m sure different checks could be put in place but it would be better to just say there will be checks in place to ensure that places gained this way are valid. I’m sure no one would expect a Volunteer to travel from Scotland to London for two minutes at registration but at the moment that is how it is being presented.

Fidgetbuzz

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2019, 10:18:56 am »
It is impossible to provide a summary covering all possible outcomes for the possible ramifications of getting a place by claiming that you will provide a family volunteer.

I imagine the team will be quite prepared to listen to individual cases.. and for example I do not think that we would apply the rule with the rigor implied after the death of the potential volunteer.

However  .. because I am a devious b*gger .. who looks for ways round rules .. you need to understand that riders coming from overseas will certainly be expected to comply with the suggestion absolutely.. turning up and pleading some sort of excuse about the volunteers non appearance is not going to work.

 The number of UK resident non AUK guaranteed members getting a place  by offering to provide a volunteer who also live a long way from London .. is bound to be very small. 

Credit us with some common sense please.. we have a lot of experience of running the event .
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

mattc

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2019, 10:20:26 am »
What about mother-in-laws?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2019, 10:24:23 am »
If someone is volunteering in Edinburgh or one of the northern controls you’re going to make them come all the way to London to registration with their othe half who is riding. Doesn’t sound very reasonable for the volunteer really.

We wouldn't dream of asking that. However this offer is not aimed at those riders but those who come from outside the UK and who bring (or could bring) family with them. A lot of our riders have teenage children whom they're keen experience a bit of independence in a foreign country. Back in 2017 I was approached quite a few times by riders looking to volunteer their teenage kids, and it worked so well I wanted to formalise and encourage it.

Plodder

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2019, 10:37:31 am »
What about motherS-in-law?

FTFY  ;)


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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2019, 11:01:57 am »
What about mother-in-laws?

Is she planning to ride?

hellymedic

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2019, 12:17:14 pm »

I imagine the team will be quite prepared to listen to individual cases.. and for example I do not think that we would apply the rule with the rigor implied after the death of the potential volunteer.

Credit us with some common sense please.. we have a lot of experience of running the event .

I don't think a dead volunteer would be very helpful.

Rigor mortis: there's a thing...

iddu

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2019, 01:18:05 pm »

I imagine the team will be quite prepared to listen to individual cases.. and for example I do not think that we would apply the rule with the rigor implied after the death of the potential volunteer.

Credit us with some common sense please.. we have a lot of experience of running the event .

I don't think a dead volunteer would be very helpful.

Rigor mortis: there's a thing...

Oh, I dunno...

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Controllers should learn to use what resources are available ;D
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Fidgetbuzz

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2019, 07:50:16 pm »


Purely out of interest, what's the thinking behind that specific requirement?

Not Alwyn replying.. so maybe not correct ..  .. but I think this pays due respect to those very serious committed  long distance riders .. who merit a right to enter .. as opposed to taking their chance in the lottery .. assuming of course they are not AUK members, with a guaranteed place.
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2019, 08:45:28 pm »


Purely out of interest, what's the thinking behind that specific requirement?

Not Alwyn replying.. so maybe not correct ..  .. but I think this pays due respect to those very serious committed  long distance riders .. who merit a right to enter .. as opposed to taking their chance in the lottery .. assuming of course they are not AUK members, with a guaranteed place.

Yup, pretty much what FB said. Last time we gave places to people who had ridden PBP and 1001 Miglia, so they could get the Granbrevetto award. On reflection, and reflecting the thinking at LRM, I think that's far too eurocentric. So this rewards those riders who support randonneuring at these longer distances, year after year, anywhere in the world.

It's a deliberately tough hurdle too, which I think strikes the right balance between the above objective, and not throttling opportunity for new riders. About 150-200 riders are likely to qualify, but rather fewer will want to ride LEL.

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2019, 10:09:20 pm »


Purely out of interest, what's the thinking behind that specific requirement?

Not Alwyn replying.. so maybe not correct ..  .. but I think this pays due respect to those very serious committed  long distance riders .. who merit a right to enter .. as opposed to taking their chance in the lottery .. assuming of course they are not AUK members, with a guaranteed place.

Yup, pretty much what FB said. Last time we gave places to people who had ridden PBP and 1001 Miglia, so they could get the Granbrevetto award. On reflection, and reflecting the thinking at LRM, I think that's far too eurocentric. So this rewards those riders who support randonneuring at these longer distances, year after year, anywhere in the world.

It's a deliberately tough hurdle too, which I think strikes the right balance between the above objective, and not throttling opportunity for new riders. About 150-200 riders are likely to qualify, but rather fewer will want to ride LEL.

Quite a far number of these 150-200 will be AUK members anyway. AUK membership is quite popular among experienced LRM event riders.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2019, 04:33:30 pm »
IMHO one of the reasons for the low finish rate in 2017 was the stiff persistent headwind on the way back, especially over the fens.  So, if I recall the OP does mainly NL brevets, the "Dutch Mountains" would be perfect training for LEL.

The absence of entry criteria is, in some way a positive to me, not being able to ride PBP this time due to family commitments means I'm spared the scramble of trying to fit qualifying rides around family commitments and a full time job, which almost makes up for missing the event.  But that does put the onus on riders to try to prepare themselves, not because they've got a place that someone else could have, but because if they are way off being able to ride 1400km with the last 500km into a headwind (which is the prevailing wind) then it's likely to be a bit of a miserable experience.

I'm hanging up my apron to ride in 2021 (or at least that's the plan), after having fed or supervised the feeding of 5000 over the last two editions.  ;D
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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2019, 09:31:03 pm »
So if one is interested in volunteering, not riding, what should we do (other than avoiding rigor mortis, unless blocked in a useful pose)? Will there be a suitably clickable item on the LEL website when that opens? I don't fancy being a benevole for PBP but would like to do it for LEL, nice excuse to come over the Channel (provided that I'm allowed back over afterwards, which is not guaranteed in the current state of affairs)

Fidgetbuzz

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Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2019, 10:14:01 am »
Not an Alwyn reply so may not be exactly right .

When web site is up and running .. there will be the route that will allow vols to put their name forward .. and we will have  a system that picks up available dates and preferred location. We do pay towards travel expenses ( there might be a limit on this.. but you will know about that well in advance  ).. and this does not usually cover getting to UK from abroad.

Vols are expected to use  accommodation arranged for them at controls ..this will not be luxury .. but will be  acceptable.

Roger
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: LEL Entry
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2019, 11:55:25 am »
Panic over, I've just found out I can squeeze in a sex change to qualify through positive discrimination, phew what a relief  :thumbsup:
It's a win win really, as I'll be able to get rid of those irritating dangly bits that get in the way when cycling.