Author Topic: PBP hi viz vest  (Read 10119 times)

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #100 on: February 08, 2019, 05:37:22 pm »
Has the bike check got any more sophisticated? In 2011 I remember it was simply a sticker on the top tube, something that could easily be transferred or copied to a completely separate bike.

(I guess it would be a risk as there are plenty of marshals on the course and at controls to spot anything obviously verboten [tri-bars, brakeless fixed, etc].)

The sticker was there to stop theft from the stadium as you collected your paperwork. It wasn't easy to remove without making a mess.

I can't remember the bike check in 2015.
I think they squeezed the brakes and checked you had lights.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #101 on: February 08, 2019, 10:50:01 pm »
It's a faff, but I don't have a particular problem (other than finding somewhere sensible to put my glasses) stripping down to a sports bra at the side of the road in order to remove a baselayer, or for emergency bee extraction.  Obviously it's not ideal next to a bus stop full of rowdy oiks, but if there are oiks around, there's probably a loo or something.

YMMV, of course; some people have scars they're self-conscious of, or have had bad experiences, or whatever.  And it's obviously not a good idea in the sort of countries us QUILTBAGs tend to think twice about visiting in the first place.

I have no main issue with my own body and Nudity, however I find that most others do not approve of me being topless.

As for sports bra. HAHAHAHAHA. My physio wants me to join a circuit training class to get some extra strength training. So I went to buy a sports bra. Turns out non of the highstreet shops in Amsterdam make sports bra's that go big enough for me. I ended up cycling out to Almere to a specialist sports bra shop, that whilst having dozens of different lines in stock, only had 3 that come in my size. I spent €100 on it. It's great for circuits, and running, but I did a 200 with it, and it's just not comfortable enough. I've kinda resigned myself to the fact I can't get sports bras that are a) in my size and b) comfortable for long distance cycling. You wouldn't think 38H is that big, but apparently, yes it is. It was a major regret the day I realised I'd forgotten to bring a sports bra when riding Paris Roubaix...

I don't tend to wear a base layer under my jersey as it's just too damn hot to do so.

J

In France all you have to do is carry a big banner saying "I'm Dutch" and no-one will be the slightest bit surprised -all the dutch girls on holiday take their tops off all the time (and not to cover up with a hi-viz jacket afterwards). The areas where you would get hassled you would probably get hassled covered up like an eskimo in the arctic winter and most of them are not areas where you would want to be after dark alone on a pushbike (unless accompanied by a large and ferocious dog, preferably drooling at the thought of fresh human flesh). I live in such an area (and I have daughters too)!

What you think of as high temperatures are probably what we would consider normal. I used to have a clubmate who liked going up cols when the tar was melting (not my idea of fun but that's what he liked). You have to get used to it as best you can. The last couple of years I have worked outside in 40°,  30° at midnight is uncomfortable but 25° becomes quite acceptable. The first week of the summer is hard, afterwards it gets easier.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2019, 11:41:48 am »
Has the bike check got any more sophisticated? In 2011 I remember it was simply a sticker on the top tube, something that could easily be transferred or copied to a completely separate bike.

(I guess it would be a risk as there are plenty of marshals on the course and at controls to spot anything obviously verboten [tri-bars, brakeless fixed, etc].)

The sticker was there to stop theft from the stadium as you collected your paperwork. It wasn't easy to remove without making a mess.

I can't remember the bike check in 2015.
I think they squeezed the brakes and checked you had lights.

In 2015, someone had there bike stolen at the velodrome, I think it was a Swedish rider, just after the bike check and in the supposedly secure area whilst they went to collect their documentation in the velodrome. so the sticker made no difference. What I saw was that as you was exiting the area with your bike, the officials would match the number on your sticker with your documentation, but, I saw people walking out of the secure area pushing bikes unchallenged behind the officials whilst they was checking other peoples bikes.

The stickers themselves were very robust and did not come off the bikes that easily, I still have the remains of mine from 2015 still on my top tube. Shows how often I clean my bikes.

That was all the bike check was but they also bounced my bike to see if anything fell off. But, they must have heard about me and watching out for me as its very rare for something not to drop off my bike on an Audax, usually the lights or the mapboard along with the routecards at some point. Once rode the National 400 for about 4 miles or more to a checkpoint holding onto my mapboard as it was hanging off as the bolt had come undone.

the straggler

  • It's just another brick in the wall
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #103 on: February 09, 2019, 12:18:10 pm »

What I saw was that as you was exiting the area with your bike, the officials would match the number on your sticker with your documentation, but, I saw people walking out of the secure area pushing bikes unchallenged behind the officials whilst they was checking other peoples bikes.


Seems what I recall in 2015, just an imbalance of security check officials available to the shear volume  of riders entering and exiting the secure area. I got away using a cheap flimsy combo chain lock on every control, but so many didn't bother locking their bikes at the controls.
'If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat'.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #104 on: February 09, 2019, 12:21:02 pm »
That is about the sum of it. Bounce your bike, check your lights front and back, add sticker, and exclaim manifique and smile at you.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #105 on: February 09, 2019, 08:04:05 pm »
For PBP I certainly will use a bike with a kick-stand and an integrated lock. The time gain in less faff and less risk is a lot higher as time loss due to the extra weight.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #106 on: February 09, 2019, 09:29:09 pm »
Tricycle 4 me. Unlikely to be stolen and stays upright when you hop off.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2019, 09:38:26 am »
I won’t bother locking my Specialized Roubaix during the PBP as it’s 10 years old and only has 105 10 speed kit fitted. There will be plenty of bikes worth 10, 20 or more times as much as mine that thieves are more likely to target. I might think differently if I had a newer, flashier bike.
Back on hi-vis vests, I wore an Audax UK one last time from when Pam Pilbeam was selling off surplus stock for £1 at an AGM. It’s XXL so way too big for me, but I sewed extra Velcro strips so it wrapped round me more, making it probably the only double breasted hi-vis on the ride!


T42

  • Tea tank
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #108 on: February 10, 2019, 10:12:03 am »
That is about the sum of it. Bounce your bike, check your lights front and back, add sticker, and exclaim manifique and smile at you.

My favourite pic from last time:

I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

T42

  • Tea tank
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #109 on: April 06, 2019, 08:26:20 am »
New Highway Code for cyclists states that:

Quote
    Visibilité
        Obligatoires à tous moment, de jour comme de nuit :
            catadioptre arrière rouge (R313-18, 1ère classe), catadioptres orange latéraux (R313-19, 1ère classe),
            catadioptre avant blanc (R313-20, 1ère classe),
            catadioptre sur les pédales (R313-20, 1ère classe).
        Obligatoires seulement la nuit, ou le jour lorsque la visibilité est insuffisante (tunnel, brouillard,…) :
            feu de position avant jaune ou blanc (R313-4, 1ère classe) non clignotant (R313-25, 3ème classe), feu de position arrière rouge (R313-5, 1ère classe) d’intensité variable ; en outre le conducteur est tenu de les allumer (R416-10, 1ère classe),
            gilet haute visibilité lorsqu’on circule hors agglomération (R431-1-1, 2ème classe).
    avertisseur sonore ; obligatoire à tous moments ; tout appareil autre qu’un timbre ou un grelot est interdits, donc pas de cloches, sifflets, trompes et autres Airzound (R313-33, 1ère classe),
    tout dispositif d’éclairage ou de signalisation, autre que ceux prévus dans le code de la route et conformes à la réglementation, est interdit (R313-1, 1ère classe) ; le vélo ne doit donc être équipé que d’un seul feu que ce soit à l’avant ou à l’arrière; à noter l’autorisation des dispositifs écarteurs de danger à l’arrière et à gauche (R313-20).
    freins : tout cycle doit être muni de deux dispositifs de freinage efficaces (R315-3, 1ère classe),
    le port du casque n’est pas obligatoire à vélo (R431-1) sauf pour les moins de 12 ans (R431-1-3, 4ème classe)
    interdiction de porter tout dispositif susceptible d’émettre du son à l’oreille (oreillette, casque audio) (R412-6-1, 4ème classe)


Which, being translated with Google's usual 100% accuracy, yields:

Quote
Visibility
        Mandatory at all times, day and night:
            red rear reflector (R313-18, 1st class), orange retro-reflectors (R313-19, 1st class),
            front reflector white (R313-20, 1st class),
            reflex reflector on the pedals (R313-20, 1st class).
        Mandatory only at night, or during the day when visibility is insufficient (tunnel, fog, ...):
            yellow or white (R313-4, 1st class) front position lamp, non-flashing (R313-25, 3rd class), red (R313-5, 1st class) rear position lamp of variable intensity; in addition the driver is obliged to light them (R416-10, 1st class),
            High visibility vest when riding out of town (R431-1-1, 2nd class).
    buzzer ; mandatory at all times; any device other than a stamp or a bell is prohibited, so no bells, whistles, horns and other Airzound (R313-33, 1st class),
    any lighting or signaling device, other than those provided for in the Highway Code and in compliance with the regulations, is prohibited (R313-1, 1st class); the bicycle must therefore be equipped with only one light at the front or at the rear; note the authorization of the rear and left-hand danger retractor devices (R313-20).
    brakes: every cycle shall be provided with two effective braking devices (R315-3, 1st class),
    the helmet is not obligatory by bicycle (R431-1) except for the under 12s (R431-1-3, 4th class)
    prohibition to wear any device likely to emit sound by ear (earpiece, headphones) (R412-6-1, 4th class)


Where "class" refers to the fines for contravention, to wit:

1ère classe    11€
2ème classe    35€
3ème classe    68€
4ème classe    135€

Bon appétit.

I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #110 on: April 06, 2019, 09:04:56 am »

That is typical of most nations road traffic rules. In general that is interpreted by most as having 1 light turned on at any given time. Having two on the handle bars, but only using one. Ultimately tho, most police aren't going to care if you're lit, but not obnoxiously so. But if a cop wants to give you trouble, it does add just more ammunition.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

T42

  • Tea tank
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #111 on: April 06, 2019, 10:47:38 am »
Couldn't agree more.

I'd like to see "any device likely to emit sound by ear (earpiece, headphones)" applied to pedestrials* on cycles tracks.

* typo but I rather like it.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #112 on: April 06, 2019, 02:23:07 pm »
So I need only one light, now to decide whether to go for front or rear.  Rear is easier as battery life is a non issue.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #113 on: April 06, 2019, 02:48:33 pm »
So I need only one light, now to decide whether to go for front or rear.  Rear is easier as battery life is a non issue.

I meant 1 light at each end of the bike. Tho I can see where the ambiguity is in both what I wrote, and the translation of the French...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

T42

  • Tea tank
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #114 on: April 06, 2019, 03:16:00 pm »
The original French works pretty hard at being ambiguous too.

UAF rules used to require that if a dynamo light was used there had to be a battery back-up light as well.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #115 on: April 06, 2019, 09:40:31 pm »
The original French works pretty hard at being ambiguous too.

UAF rules used to require that if a dynamo light was used there had to be a battery back-up light as well.
Did they say anything about oil lights though?
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #116 on: April 07, 2019, 11:18:36 pm »
The French are still hanging onto Selectif yellow then...

If they insist on only 1 beam mounted at a time try some electrical tape over the light source.

My first thought is "These are the Dutch rules translated into French, both in language and style"


Where are the Orange retro-reflectors to be?

From using
ARTICLE R313-19 DU CODE DE LA ROUTE
Catadioptres latéraux
I. - Tout véhicule à moteur dont la longueur dépasse 6 mètres, toute remorque, tout cyclomoteur à deux roues doit être muni d'un ou de deux catadioptres latéraux, non triangulaires, de couleur orangée.
II. - Tout autre véhicule à moteur peut être muni d'un ou de deux catadioptres latéraux, non triangulaires, de couleur orangée.

Shoving it into Google translate and ignoring the word "Motor" I get the suspicion it would need to be wheel reflectors, which is a bit of a ball ache if riding around europe since in other places it's white reflective surfaces on wheels

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #117 on: April 07, 2019, 11:36:02 pm »
If riding around Europe it's Vienna rules (and/or the pragmatism of local cops).
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.

T42

  • Tea tank
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #118 on: April 08, 2019, 08:53:35 am »
A couple of years back the gendarmerie conducted a goodwill exercise whereby they stopped people who were cycling without lights and gave them clip-on lights, a hi-viz vest and a set of 3M spoke reflectors, which are white; so I reckon the orangeness of lateral catadioptrics is really critical. They might get pissed off at police-whirligig blue, though.

I use black reflective tape on the rims à la Teethgrinder, and I stick another bit on the sides of my SPD pedals.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #119 on: April 08, 2019, 10:16:08 am »
If riding around Europe it's Vienna rules (and/or the pragmatism of local cops).
Does anyone else confuse
Vienna Rules with
Moscow Rules?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2019, 03:52:59 pm »
When these types of molly-coddling rules are introduced, often they're done so with grammas and kidzies in mind, and there's an exemption of various parts for sports cycles.  E.g. in Germany all bikes must be sold with a dyno front wheel, except bikes lighter than 10kg, or something?

Is there such an exemption here?

What about Tour de France, esp. when they're out on training rides (i.e. on open roads) — will they be subject to the same?

Seems silly.
RRTY #7 done.  Need something else to do ... ah, welcome #8 8)

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #121 on: April 08, 2019, 05:49:17 pm »
If riding around Europe it's Vienna rules (and/or the pragmatism of local cops).
Does anyone else confuse
Vienna Rules with
Moscow Rules?

No but I confuse the Venice convention on Road Traffic with the Geneva Convention.
Thankfully the predecessor on the Venice Convention for Road Traffic was the Geneva Convention on Road Traffic


OH does this also mean we need to carry GB stickers (or what ever for the non-GB based)

Venice 1968 implemented 1977

Chapter V
CONDITIONS FOR THE ADMISSION OF CYCLES AND MOPEDS TO INTERNATIONAL TRAFFIC
ARTICLE 44
1. Cycles without an engine in international traffic shall:
(a) Have an efficient brake;
(b) Be equipped with a bell capable of being heard at a sufficient
distance, and carry no other audible warning device;
(c) Be equipped with a red reflecting device at the rear and with devices
such that the cycle can show a white or selective-yellow light to the front and a
red light to the rear.


Geneva 1949
CHAPTER VI. PROVISIONS APPLICABLE TO CYCLES IN INTERNATIONAL TRAFFIC
Article 26

Every cycle shall be equipped with:

(a) at least one efficient brake;

(b) an audible warning device consisting of a bell, to the exclusion of any other audible warning device, capable of being heard at a reasonable distance;

(c) a white or yellow light in front and a red light or a red reflex reflector in the rear from nightfall and during the night or when atmospheric conditions render it necessary.


Can't find any text for the 1926 Paris Convetion

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #122 on: April 08, 2019, 05:50:40 pm »
When these types of molly-coddling rules are introduced, often they're done so with grammas and kidzies in mind, and there's an exemption of various parts for sports cycles.  E.g. in Germany all bikes must be sold with a dyno front wheel, except bikes lighter than 10kg, or something?

Is there such an exemption here?

What about Tour de France, esp. when they're out on training rides (i.e. on open roads) — will they be subject to the same?

Seems silly.

The German rules still require compliant lighting for cycles intended for racing, it's just that Battery power is acceptable for them.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #123 on: April 08, 2019, 05:58:11 pm »
They changed the rules a few years ago so batter power is now acceptable for all bikes. And trikes, I presume.
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #124 on: April 08, 2019, 06:21:01 pm »
They changed the rules a few years ago so batter power is now acceptable for all bikes. And trikes, I presume.

Yeah, fitting dynamos to e-bikes was getting daft.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...