Author Topic: PBP hi viz vest  (Read 8577 times)

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #150 on: August 02, 2019, 09:00:34 pm »
Bike check is 1515, time for lazy morning and lunch first

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #151 on: August 02, 2019, 10:53:18 pm »
Bike check is 1515, time for lazy morning and lunch first

15.45.....
Reine de la Fauche


zigzag

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #152 on: August 07, 2019, 09:39:31 pm »
is "sam browne" type belt ok instead of full reflective vest? i'd much prefer wearing that given the choice, and have it on during the whole ride. (saw it shown on a pbp board game in another thread)

αdαmsκι

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #153 on: August 07, 2019, 09:51:16 pm »
Dunno Zigzag but as you'll know the gilet last time was boil in the bag.

I'm tempted to order something like this:

https://btrsports.co.uk/products/high-visibility-reflective-vest-sash-bib-for-running-cycling-horse-riding-and-more

It runs the risk of someone stopping me on the road but I doubt that'll happen as I'll have something hi Vis on, even if it isn't the official gilet
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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zigzag

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #154 on: August 07, 2019, 09:55:59 pm »
i was looking at exactly the same thing! (only on amazon)

αdαmsκι

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #155 on: August 07, 2019, 10:11:05 pm »
Want me to order two as it's half price for the second one? Colour preference?

(I'll be around next week for you to collect).
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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FifeingEejit

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #156 on: August 07, 2019, 10:21:53 pm »
Officially the garment must conform to the EN ISO blah blah blah standard because that's what french law says...
How ACP and the french polis are going to enforce it is another question.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #157 on: August 07, 2019, 10:43:16 pm »
Well you can but wear the no sweat option and carry the official vest. If stopped, swap them over, carrying on for a bit, then swap back later.

zigzag

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #158 on: August 07, 2019, 11:00:15 pm »
Want me to order two as it's half price for the second one? Colour preference?

(I'll be around next week for you to collect).

oops, saw it too late!.. but thanks for the offer.

in reality this type of vest is more visible at night - from all directions - if one cares about true safety effect. the common (en1055) builders type vest is only visible from the sides and does not reflect from front or back when i'm on aerobars - not very good unless one rides in upright(ish) position.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #159 on: August 08, 2019, 03:55:50 pm »
The only problem with wearing an item of reflective clothing that is different to what the organizers provide you with is, it stands out like a beacon on a night even amongst a group of other riders as being completely different. The officials on motorcycles would not have to come looking for riders wearing non conforming reflectives, the riders doing so would present themselves nicely in the beam of the motorcycles headlight and if they are having a bad day, may stop you, probably unlikely, but you never know. In 2015, there was a rider on a motorcycle who was stroppy with riders enforcing that they should be wearing them well before dusk, I fell foul of him myself and he had 2 or 3 goes at me before I decided I better put it on before I got a time penalty, as it was hot and about an hour or more before dusk, I just took my jersey off and wore the reflective till it cooled down.

zigzag

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #160 on: August 08, 2019, 04:13:21 pm »
it's good to stand out and be visible! :) i don't recall many riders in our group wearing the official vests, everyone had their own idea of reflective outfit, and there were a fair few wearing reflective elastic straps. being visible at night mainly comes from proper front/rear lights, the vest is an added safety feature in case the lights die for whatever reason.

dubya

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #161 on: August 08, 2019, 04:17:12 pm »
A friend of mine is in Insurance, works in mitigation - basically the person who works to lower or stop payouts.  I've just asked him whether to wear or not wear the organisers hi-viz.  He was quite clear that if a rider wasn't wearing the organisers supplied vest that would be a key negotiating point.  He felt it could be reasonably argued that the organisers vest identified an  exhausted rider from on the endurance event.  Whether that is of any concern to individuals remains to be seen, and of course has to be judged on a case by case basis.

simonp

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #162 on: August 08, 2019, 04:24:38 pm »
Bike check is 1515, time for lazy morning and lunch first

15.45.....

I'm piggy in the middle then.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #163 on: August 08, 2019, 04:52:18 pm »
Want me to order two as it's half price for the second one? Colour preference?

(I'll be around next week for you to collect).

oops, saw it too late!.. but thanks for the offer.

in reality this type of vest is more visible at night - from all directions - if one cares about true safety effect. the common (en1055) builders type vest is only visible from the sides and does not reflect from front or back when i'm on aerobars - not very good unless one rides in upright(ish) position.

aye but this is about meeting french legal requirements to keep the organizers and their insurance company happy...

Luminous colours dont' do much at night anyway, it's the retroreflectives, and retroreflective visibility is dependent on a lightsource hitting it.
In reality a suitably iluminated set of lights are going to be visible long before the reflective bands of a garment that's designed for the purposes of making people stand out in daylight conditions in order to prevent crane operators dropping pallets of bricks on other workers etc.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #164 on: August 08, 2019, 06:09:57 pm »
Retroreflectives are more for oblique angles where your lights aren't shining brightly, the most extreme will be from right angles to your direction of travel. Classic example would be approaching/passing a T-junction with a car arriving from side on.

Your forward facing lights will be spraying some light to the sides, but not that much. Modern bike lights try to be more visible to the sides but they're far from great, especially when riding past hedges/walls that block out the bulk of the light from the bike lights.

Car headlights bouncing off retroreflectives should make you far more visible.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #165 on: August 08, 2019, 06:30:31 pm »
@zigzag "my child-sized vest was fine (i.e. snug fit and ending above jersey pockets for convenience) last time and i'm planning to use it again this year."
Surely the only requirement is Not To Be Hassled By Jobsworths, who won't have read any standard but will be familiar with the PBP gilet, so you want something that looks superficially similar to that . . . .
This ^^^^^ (my emboldening)
Straps/double 'Sam Brownes' do so obviously not meet either the French law or the explicit PBP Rule 9 (written to make the standard very clear cf previous PBPs) that a wearer is taking a risk of hassle for small advantage. Actual conspicuity (relative or otherwise) is irrelevant. Forecast looks as if it will be benign (ie 18 degrees in the wee hours) so bitb to be avoided. Go for the @Vorsprung look.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #166 on: August 08, 2019, 07:09:39 pm »
A friend of mine is in Insurance, works in mitigation - basically the person who works to lower or stop payouts.  I've just asked him whether to wear or not wear the organisers hi-viz.  He was quite clear that if a rider wasn't wearing the organisers supplied vest that would be a key negotiating point.  He felt it could be reasonably argued that the organisers vest identified an  exhausted rider from on the endurance event.  Whether that is of any concern to individuals remains to be seen, and of course has to be judged on a case by case basis.

Did you tell him that the organiser's one is a lot hotter as other ones on the market (other ones complying to French law) which can lead to health issues for the rider involved?

dubya

  • You can't stop the waves,but you can learn to surf
Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #167 on: August 08, 2019, 09:58:22 pm »



Did you tell him that the organiser's one is a lot hotter as other ones on the market (other ones complying to French law) which can lead to health issues for the rider involved?

No, I just ask what would his view be if I used my hiviz rather than the supplied.  He just felt it would have 'wiggle room' and I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to internet shopping sites! 


Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #168 on: August 08, 2019, 10:17:45 pm »



Did you tell him that the organiser's one is a lot hotter as other ones on the market (other ones complying to French law) which can lead to health issues for the rider involved?

No, I just ask what would his view be if I used my hiviz rather than the supplied.  He just felt it would have 'wiggle room' and I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to internet shopping sites!

So it's for people with my kind of issue a choice between pest and cholera.
Give these kind of insurance lawyers a chance to act or face an angry boss when you turn in sick after PBP because your shoulder packed due to overheating.

Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #169 on: August 09, 2019, 08:31:18 am »
I never found the reflective issued in 2015 hot apart for when that official told me to put it on well before dusk when the sun was shining but just taking my jersey off resolved it then it was pleasantly cool. But, when I saw people wearing them well into the morning and all day and depending on what they had underneath then it could be easy to blame them for being hot. Riders were probably even putting extra layers on for the night in expectation of it getting cold and then putting the reflective on and not considering that that also is an extra layer which will keep you warm but leads to overheating. But, as a rule, I just wore mine over my jersey with nothing else on a night as a layer to keep warm and removed it at some point after dawn when it started to warm up and never got hot in it. And if it did get hot, then you just unzip it if you have too.

In reality, the simple reflective gillet is not going to be to hot, its what you have underneath that contributes to you being hot.


wilkyboy

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Re: PBP hi viz vest
« Reply #170 on: August 09, 2019, 10:41:11 am »
In reality, the simple reflective gillet is not going to be to hot, its what you have underneath that contributes to you being hot.

I hear what you say, but for me that's not the case — the gilet is hot, my core just burned up in 2015 with it on, except for Monday night when it got down to 6°C.  My preferred, mesh-back gilet is part of my night-time layering system, but the PBP non-mesh gilet is just too hot — for me — in summer.

FWIW, I can ride in a short-sleeve jersey and no gloves in dry conditions in hilly country (Wales) down to about 5°C, I really do generate that much heat, and I'm not the only rider like that.  I wore shorts or knickers all last winter, the full-lengths didn't make a showing.
RRTY #7 done.  Need something else to do ... ah, welcome #8 8)