Author Topic: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020  (Read 9792 times)

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2019, 01:17:58 pm »
Is the Raid gonig to be LRM homologated?

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2019, 01:34:34 pm »
Is the Raid gonig to be LRM homologated?

Yes, once a brevet goes past 2000km in length, LRM allow the min average speed to drop to 10 km/h, and still be homologated.  But Eamon didn't realise this in 2016, so ended up with an event with a higher min average.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2019, 01:42:03 pm »
ta

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2019, 01:52:08 pm »
Is the Raid gonig to be LRM homologated?

Yes, once a brevet goes past 2000km in length, LRM allow the min average speed to drop to 10 km/h, and still be homologated.  But Eamon didn't realise this in 2016, so ended up with an event with a higher min average.

Very good to hear. Any reference to where this is stated? I can't seen anything in the LRM rules except that over 1400km is at 12kmph.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2019, 01:57:07 pm »
Hmmmm.   Clashes with Trans Alba.   Decisions, decisions.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2019, 02:13:21 pm »
Is the Raid gonig to be LRM homologated?

Yes, once a brevet goes past 2000km in length, LRM allow the min average speed to drop to 10 km/h, and still be homologated.  But Eamon didn't realise this in 2016, so ended up with an event with a higher min average.

Very good to hear. Any reference to where this is stated? I can't seen anything in the LRM rules except that over 1400km is at 12kmph.

Eamon mentioned it, after he'd been chatting with LRM after WAWA 16.  I also saw in on the LRM website before it got refreshed.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2019, 02:16:14 pm »
The LRM rules seem to say anything over 1200 to be set at a steady 12kmh; but then it also says you can apply to alter the timing schedules.

But looking at the LRM calendar for this year, the Tranz Oz is clearly 10kmh.
and the Croatian 2000 has the 3 successful riders (out of 5) finishing 4 minutes short of 200 hours, which again is marginally over 10kmh

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2019, 02:23:42 pm »
Is the Raid gonig to be LRM homologated?

Yes, once a brevet goes past 2000km in length, LRM allow the min average speed to drop to 10 km/h, and still be homologated.  But Eamon didn't realise this in 2016, so ended up with an event with a higher min average.

Very good to hear. Any reference to where this is stated? I can't seen anything in the LRM rules except that over 1400km is at 12kmph.

Eamon mentioned it, after he'd been chatting with LRM after WAWA 16.  I also saw in on the LRM website before it got refreshed.

AIUI there was an LRM rule change, possibly mid-late 2000s, which brought in these speeds (10km/h 1900-2499km, 81/3km/h 2500km+). Details of this were lost in a website crash, and preserved only somewhere in the AUK archives ...

After WAWA 2016 I had a whinge to Eamon, but also to Chris Crossland as UK LRM rep - he took it up with Keith Benton as LRM president, who confirmed that the rules had indeed been changed sometime previously, and at some stage the LRM website was changed to reflect them.

The current LRM website refresh seems to have reverted to the 2003 rules, which (again AIUI) have been superseded WRT to speeds.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2019, 03:27:40 pm »
The world wide web has an amazing ability to release documents even if initially hidden below the surface

I have found (and retrieved) a PDF copy of the revised LRM constitution and regulations, which clearly has the time limits for 1900-2499km as 10 km/h etc.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fahhhezyasdk7a1/LRM_Revised_constitution_31_Jan.pdf?dl=1

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2019, 03:29:29 pm »
Is the Raid gonig to be LRM homologated?

Yes, once a brevet goes past 2000km in length, LRM allow the min average speed to drop to 10 km/h, and still be homologated.  But Eamon didn't realise this in 2016, so ended up with an event with a higher min average.

Very good to hear. Any reference to where this is stated? I can't seen anything in the LRM rules except that over 1400km is at 12kmph.

Eamon mentioned it, after he'd been chatting with LRM after WAWA 16.  I also saw in on the LRM website before it got refreshed.

AIUI there was an LRM rule change, possibly mid-late 2000s, which brought in these speeds (10km/h 1900-2499km, 81/3km/h 2500km+). Details of this were lost in a website crash, and preserved only somewhere in the AUK archives ...

After WAWA 2016 I had a whinge to Eamon, but also to Chris Crossland as UK LRM rep - he took it up with Keith Benton as LRM president, who confirmed that the rules had indeed been changed sometime previously, and at some stage the LRM website was changed to reflect them.

The current LRM website refresh seems to have reverted to the 2003 rules, which (again AIUI) have been superseded WRT to speeds.

The world wide web has an amazing ability to release documents even if initially hidden on the surface

I have found (and retrieved) a PDF copy of the revised LRM constitution and regulations, which clearly has the time limits for 1900-2499km as 10 km/h etc.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fahhhezyasdk7a1/LRM_Revised_constitution_31_Jan.pdf?dl=1

Thank you both for your insight.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2019, 08:20:58 pm »
Does anyone know when we will have to commit to a speed/ version? Will it be November?

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #61 on: September 02, 2019, 09:03:08 pm »
When you enter I'd have thought. Entries open in November. How many will try to enter, and how soon, who knows?

I suspect the 320 km / day version, as it involves use of sleep controls, will be the more expensive to enter and have fewer available places.  I think the raid version will allow for many more riders and pressure on places will be less. But sure details will start appearing in the next month or so as Eamon cranks up the WAWA machine.

If you are on Facebook there is WAWA page. It's public anyway, if you are not on FB. You can also sign up your interest on the WAWA website and sure you'll get an email when there's something to communicate.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2019, 06:59:22 am »
Cheers, I’m on the mailing list already. I’ll have a look at Facebook... much to ponder, both versions have their appeal!

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2019, 01:42:17 pm »
Been looking at logistics.

Oddly there is no SailRail to/from (London)Derry

Just over 70 quid for the SailRail to Cork from NE Scotland, add in a tenner for the bike space on Stena, and then 5 euro for the seat reservation you need on the Heuston-Cork Intercity to get the bike booking.
Though the routing given is a pain, not a direct Crewe-Holyhead as it was last time I used it but changing at Warrington and Chester

Return from Belfast Port is a bit cheaper at 34 quid, plus tenner for the Stena space, only problem is the SailRail bus goes to Ayr whereas with a bike Stranraer is more appropriate as it's a fairly short ride from Red House to there, don't think you can put the bike on the bus to Ayr.

Only problem I'm likely to have, is that it's during the school holidays up here.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2019, 02:01:16 pm »
I've not had to pay the ferry bike charge on recent trips.  I'd forgotten to pay it, and they didn't ask for it when I rolled up with the bike. 

In 2016, we had engine problems on the ferries both ways so allow for needing to get the Cork train an hour later than planned. The train to Cork had a guards van with no issues of bike space.  The cost of the train ticket Derry to Belfast wasn't much from memory. The station is a very short ride from the place booked in Derry. The train guard was very helpful about where to put our bikes though there was no guards van on this train.  The train wasn't that busy.  The accommodation was also within walking distance of the Peace Bridge, the finish point in Derry.

For Irish trains you want Translink.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2019, 02:15:30 pm »
IrishRail (iarnrod eireann) state bike booking is compulsory on InterCity trains which Dublin to Cork is; looks like it's normally the CAF Mk4 carriages with DVT but occasionally a railcar with no guards van space.

NI Railways is the railways part of Translink, no bike bookings at all according to their website, just pile on in the space until the guard is unhappy.
£13 for the 2 hour journey

My understanding is that SailRail tickets are "Any Permitted route" tickets, last time I used it on Red House to Belfast I just had to phone Stena and tell them which sailing I wanted to use each way.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #66 on: September 03, 2019, 02:22:57 pm »

1. Thu 25th June - Sat 4th July   The Raid version: Average 240km a day.  Likely to be a case of making your own sleeping arrangements most days, and pass through a few of the shared sleeping / shelter controls with


Thanks Phil, I'm also contemplating the Raid option as I like the idea of seeing where I'm riding, and maybe the odd pint of black stuff, purely medicinal of course. Do you know if there will be set stages for the Raid and thus defined places for overnight rest? Ideally I would pre-book accommodation if I know where I'll be finishing each day. Not 100% sure I can do it yet as depends on family, but it seems a good target for next year.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #67 on: September 03, 2019, 09:41:09 pm »
Eamon talked about set stages for the raid version back in May.  But at that time I think he was looking at the option of providing sleep / shelter controls for the raid version as well as the 320km a day version. I believe he's now back tracked on that for the raid version. I suspect, but it's not yet confirmed, that you'll need to keep ahead of the intermediate control close times, but you can do that in different ways.

One rider may decide on a 265km first day, followed by 215km next day.  Another rider may end up with a 250km first day, followed by a 230km second day.  They are both averaging the min 240km a day, but doing it in different ways.  Where you can reasonably get accommodation will dictate much of the raid riders plans unless some take a bivvy or basic camping gear. If you are going to allow more riders you'll need this flexibility of where they can stop overnight lest accomodation gets full.

I've had confirmation that they are looking to start the raid version at 9am on the Thu. More civilised than the 6am start the "classic" version had in 2016.

This week, I'm helping out Eamon with the GPX tracks for the event. So I'd expect once we've sorted those out, the route and sleep control locations (for the classic version) will be made public by the organising team. The raid version will follow the same route, which will be mandatory, but you will not be tied to overnight stops other than min times as above, and some of the mandatory controls.

In terms of controls it was receipt , info or photo evidence , manned camper van , or manned sleep / shelter controls. There were also secret controls where Eamon and Seamus jumped out a van. Plus of course there will be live satellite tracking of each rider.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2019, 10:49:39 pm »
Thanks Phil, that's really helpful to get your insights. I found reading your blog of WAWA#1 was really informative as well.

Flexibility for overnight stops on the Raid seems key to me, as you say to avoid accommodation getting booked up, but I guess we shall have to wait and see how Eamonn sets-up the Raid vs the Classic. I'm following the FB page and have registered my interest so look forward to hearing more.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2019, 03:30:00 pm »
WAWA GPX for Eamon now completed for each day.

I can reveal that the draft route has 2,195km of riding and 21,076 1 metres of ascent.

1 Other elevation models may add or subtract from this figure.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2019, 05:08:32 pm »
More details received on Raid format

Yes you can vary your daily distance each day, subject to minimum overall speeds.

But take into account

1. They hope to have breakfast, tea, coffee, chicken rolls etc. at selected gala or supervalues, each day at a nominal 70km.
2. They hope to have a dinner each day into the raid at nominal 140-160 km
3. In Ballina they are organizing bbq and beers 🍺 it’s also a drop bag stop with showers

So you'll want your overnight stops to enable you to be broadly in line with the above, so you can get the most out of what's being offered for the raid riders.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2019, 05:39:25 pm »
More details received on Raid format

Yes you can vary your daily distance each day, subject to minimum overall speeds.

But take into account

1. They hope to have breakfast, tea, coffee, chicken rolls etc. at selected gala or supervalues, each day at a nominal 70km.
2. They hope to have a dinner each day into the raid at nominal 140-160 km
3. In Ballina they are organizing bbq and beers 🍺 it’s also a drop bag stop with showers

So you'll want your overnight stops to enable you to be broadly in line with the above, so you can get the most out of what's being offered for the raid riders.

Which meal of the day is Dinner in Ireland?
#ConfusedOfEastScotland

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #72 on: September 04, 2019, 05:52:18 pm »
Well where I'm from in the north west of England dinner would simply be the main meal of the day. Tea would be an early evening meal.  I suspect he means sometime in the early to mid afternoon.  It wouldn't be evening as you'd still have a nominal 80km to go (that day) at that point. It can't have a tightly bound time as who knows when each rider will get there?  So my guess is they'd be a time window each day when "dinner" is available at whatever locations are communicated in advance. 

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #73 on: September 04, 2019, 06:49:39 pm »
Well where I'm from in the north west of England dinner would simply be the main meal of the day. Tea would be an early evening meal.  I suspect he means sometime in the early to mid afternoon.  It wouldn't be evening as you'd still have a nominal 80km to go (that day) at that point. It can't have a tightly bound time as who knows when each rider will get there?  So my guess is they'd be a time window each day when "dinner" is available at whatever locations are communicated in advance.

 ;D

I'd call Dinner time around midday and the subject of a light meal, while Tea time is early to mid evening and a tad heavier.

Really I'm wondering if he's talking about a Luncheon or Evening meal spread of food.

Re: Wild Atlantic Way Audax 2020
« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2019, 06:58:32 pm »
Feck knows would be the answer to that.

 We'll have to wait and see as things get officially announced and discussed. Last time there was a variety of food choices but those weren't mid day; apart from Kilrush after the ferry crossing. I had a chicken curry at that shelter control.