Author Topic: Woo or whoa! ?  (Read 772 times)

Woo or whoa! ?
« on: March 04, 2019, 12:15:45 pm »
It seems to me beyond incredible that the first sight of the holy grail of battery charging appears on Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/anywatt/apollo-traveller-fastest-recharging-and-ultra-slim

Add to that the excess woo used in the marketing blurb, also the fact I don't actually need it, and I won't be ante-ing up $60 to find out.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2019, 12:53:17 pm »
It seems to me beyond incredible that the first sight of the holy grail of battery charging appears on Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/anywatt/apollo-traveller-fastest-recharging-and-ultra-slim

If the holy grail is a battery pack that charges in less than 20 minutes, that's been around for ages.  They tend to have things like DeWalt and Makita written on them, be overengineered for robustness and need anna daptor to provide USB power.  Power banks with both QC3 and PD outputs are readily available.  Nothing magic here, just a nice implementation.

5Ah capacity (at a presumed 3.7V) isn't that big.  So some of that charging speed is achieved by there being less to charge.

Not disputing that a single cell has longevity advantages over a series string (particularly one without balancing electronics), or that converter efficiency can be improved with a bit of effort.  But this is incremental rather than revolutionary.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2019, 01:21:16 pm »
It's still 3x+ the charging speed of my quick charge phone, which is a meaningful quantum step even if it isn't scaleable, hard to see why the tech isn't in the mainstream if it works.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2019, 01:51:38 pm »
It's still 3x+ the charging speed of my quick charge phone, which is a meaningful quantum step even if it isn't scaleable, hard to see why the tech isn't in the mainstream if it works.

It's charging at about half the speed of a power tool battery.  Hardly a quantum leap.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2019, 03:17:09 pm »
Every USB power bank I’ve seen / taken apart has had the cells in parallel. The only exception was a car jump starter pack, which had three in series to make 12-ish volts. So that claim is wrong.

It's still 3x+ the charging speed of my quick charge phone, which is a meaningful quantum step even if it isn't scaleable, hard to see why the tech isn't in the mainstream if it works.

It’s low capacity - only 5000 mAh. Lithium cells that can withstand high charge and discharge currents have existed for a long time, but they have a lot less capacity. That’s why you don’t see them in normal devices.

Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 08:02:48 pm »
That "Low Capacity" is still about the same as a phone, which takes 3x+ (4?) as long to charge even though it is currently at the cutting edge of fast charge (I'll bet yours takes more than 1:15 to charge), doesn't explain why if it does work, it isn't being used (a) by the phone manufacturers (b) scaled up for cars etc.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 08:07:38 pm »
doesn't explain why if it does work, it isn't being used (a) by the phone manufacturers

Because energy density is considered to be more important than peak current in that application[1].  Sure, you could make a phone that charges faster, but you wouldn't then be able to make it as ludicrously thin[2] as the competition, which is what the phone manufacturers are all peacocking about.


Quote
(b) scaled up for cars etc.

Where do you think this battery technology comes from?



[1] I think this is reasonable, TBH.  I'd rather have a phone that lasts 20% longer than charges twice as quickly.  Also note that as soon as you're carrying an external battery pack, the charge time of the phone itself becomes largely irrelevant.
[2] Because screw ergonomics.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2019, 08:11:04 pm »
With a phone, the main issue is overheating. There's plenty of other components in a phone that could be damaged, and less material for dissipating heat.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2019, 08:11:50 pm »
With a phone, the main issue is overheating. There's plenty of other components in a phone that could be damaged, and less material for dissipating heat.

Exactly.  Dissipating heat requires bulk.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2019, 08:58:33 pm »
With a phone, the main issue is overheating. There's plenty of other components in a phone that could be damaged, and less material for dissipating heat.

Exactly.  Dissipating heat requires bulk.
Or a large flat thin area, like cooling fins on a motorbike engine?
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2019, 09:10:43 pm »
With a phone, the main issue is overheating. There's plenty of other components in a phone that could be damaged, and less material for dissipating heat.

Exactly.  Dissipating heat requires bulk.
Or a large flat thin area, like cooling fins on a motorbike engine?

Doesn't work so well when a large chunk of that flat thin volume is devoted to a heat-generating screen.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2019, 04:31:31 pm »
I just dropped in on the eevblog, and he's found some serious graphene woo on kickstarter, and spends 45 minutes taking it apart. Didn't listen the whole way through, but it is a rich seam to mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnM4UcSDDpk

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2019, 04:58:46 pm »
With a phone, the main issue is overheating. There's plenty of other components in a phone that could be damaged, and less material for dissipating heat.

Exactly.  Dissipating heat requires bulk.
Or a large flat thin area, like cooling fins on a motorbike engine?

Doesn't work so well when a large chunk of that flat thin volume is devoted to a heat-generating screen.
Does the screen generate much heat? I'd assumed the main heat sources were the battery and the busy little electrons whizzing round the chips. But then they're encased in plastic, which is a poor conductor (and it the whole thing's stuffed in a trouser pocket there's precious little scope for convective heating anyway).
An ungovernable laughter, a joyous agitation which makes the summer stretching before you seem like an unrolling canvas on which you might draw those first rude pure strokes that are free. (Capote)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Woo or whoa! ?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2019, 05:07:19 pm »
Does the screen generate much heat? I'd assumed the main heat sources were the battery and the busy little electrons whizzing round the chips. But then they're encased in plastic, which is a poor conductor (and it the whole thing's stuffed in a trouser pocket there's precious little scope for convective heating anyway).

Not a huge amount (which will vary depending on the technology), unless as you say, you include the electronics.  But it ties up almost half of the device's surface area, on the side that's generally exposed to free air so it can't be used for effective heat dissipation.


Anyway, Ham appears to have found a winner in the graphene woo stakes....
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...