Author Topic: PBP pace planning  (Read 1996 times)

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #50 on: Yesterday at 01:01:19 pm »
My back of the envelope calculation for 70h.

30h out, sleep 4h, 36h back.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • 3x Brimstone ancien 3x Pendle/Tan Hill DNF
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Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #51 on: Yesterday at 02:29:00 pm »
My back of the envelope calculation for 70h.

30h out, sleep 4h, 36h back.

That's very close to what I've done the last two times - except faster out, 5h sleep at Brest and then another 5h sleep at Villaines.
Eddington Numbers 122 (imperial), 167 (metric) 511 (furlongs)  110 (nautical miles)

Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #52 on: Yesterday at 05:43:49 pm »
@Ajax_bay:

A bit of googling will get you the times from previous events.

This is far more reliable than trying to calculate it - put your formulae fancy calculators down!
Talk (typing) is cheap and effortless, Matt. If these data were easily googled, the question wouldn't have been asked (or I could have answered with a definitive site). As at least one other has said 'I like spreadsheets too'.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #53 on: Yesterday at 05:55:59 pm »
Here you are, knock yourself out. http://dcrand.org/blog/2015/07/09/cue-sheets-gps-files-and-planning-spreadsheet-for-pbp-2015/ gives opening and closing times for all controls for PBP15 90hr. It took about 3 minutes to find.


I prefer Jo's http://gicentre.org/pbp2015/ though
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 08:14:44 pm »
Hark at all you lot talk about pace planning!
Have a bit of empathy will you for those folk that are just too slow to even contemplate devising a pace plan in the first place, never mind trying to put one into action.

Turn up.
Ride.
See what 'appens.

Simples :-)
Garry Broad

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #55 on: Yesterday at 08:20:54 pm »
Hark at all you lot talk about pace planning!
Have a bit of empathy will you for those folk that are just too slow to even contemplate devising a pace plan in the first place, never mind trying to put one into action.

This is PBP. And your leisure time. Chill out and enjoy the event

Turn up.
Ride.
See what 'appens.

Simples :-)

Been done that. Having to lie down in a ditch because you’ve gone cross eyed with tiredness is so 2007.

Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #56 on: Yesterday at 10:14:58 pm »
My back of the envelope calculation for 70h.

30h out, sleep 4h, 36h back.

That was my plan in 1991 except I was going for a 69 so had an hour less sleep!

I found Brest a bit too far for a first sleep from a 90 hour evening start that time so slept for 5 hours at Carhaix in 1995 and found I was then refreshed enough to ride for another 25 hours to Villaines where I only needed a one hour sleep to see me through to the finish. I was so pleased with how this worked that I tried a similar strategy in 1999, 2003, 2007 and 2011 but I was getting slower each time and only just finished in under 70 hours in 2011 after taking about 39 hours to reach Brest.

By 2015 I was doing more cycling and had a carbon bike so had the confidence to go for an 84 hour start. The strategy was still similar except sleeping before the start instead of at Carhaix. This start suited me better and I shaved over 3 hours off my previous quickest time. I’m registered for the same Group Z start this year.


FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #57 on: Yesterday at 11:43:13 pm »
Slightly off topic, but does anyone know how control timings work for PBP?
Even simple calculations for closing times for the first few controls at the 15km/h minimum speed quickly fall apart.
Am I overlooking something here, or does ACP just fudge the control times for some reason?
I too find the lack of information on minimum speeds and control closing times a bit surprising. I don't plan to be riding/stopping/sleeping at anywhere near the minimum average speed but I'd still like to know before I pick up my brevet card.
After mining info from the RUSA site I have used these formulae in my spreadsheet:
=N$1+(K4*43.5/(24*611))
[where N$1 is start time, K4 = cumulative distance (on the way out), 43.5 hours is how long the 90 hour starts have got to get to Brest (@611km), and 24 = no of hours in the day]
and for closing times on the way back:
=P$10+((K14-611)*46.5/(24*607))
[where P$10 is the closing time at Brest (start + 43.5 hours), (K14-611) = cumulative distance (from Brest), 46.5 hours is how long the 90 hour starts have got to get back from Brest, 607km is the distance back, and 24 = no of hours in the day]

Through curiosity I've knocked up a sheet based on the distances on the offical info sheet and your formulae with my pre-reg start time.
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AlB7bV6RdTovht1fHb_dPUexamhu6Q

The most important bit of information for me on that is that based on what I learnt about my sleep needs on BGB (that I can keep going till around Midnight the following night on an evening start)
Is that to have any chance of making Brest before sleeping I'll need to average 20kmh.
More realistically I'll get to Carhaix.... Bugger.

However on BGB I got up around 10am, had an easyish day on trains then got a few mins sleep in the back garden of the scout hut in a bivvy bag but with not enough layers to really sleep, where as for PBP my thoughts are to try and sleep till just before check out time at midday which I'm perfectly capable of... and hope that lets me stay awake that bit longer.

hm...
Don't really have an evening start planned to try that out on though.

Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #58 on: Today at 12:35:40 am »
Looking for an accurate formula for control opening/closing times is going to be an impossible task so give up on that now. The formula does not exist.

Like most Brevet cards the control opening/closing times will be based on distances that aren't officially published (but somewhere between the minimum distance between controls and the expected route between controls) and a minimum average speed that changes defying all logic, and then modified per control with a liberal application of Gallic shrugging whilst mumbling "Bof".

They haven't even decided on the final route yet.

I've done my fair share of over-planning in the past but doing an SR series cured me of that. Reality > Plans.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #59 on: Today at 08:33:09 am »
By 2015 I was doing more cycling and had a carbon bike so had the confidence to go for an 84 hour start. The strategy was still similar except sleeping before the start instead of at Carhaix. This start suited me better and I shaved over 3 hours off my previous quickest time. I’m registered for the same Group Z start this year.

I don't see much mention here of just how badly the evening start puts you on the back foot.  I experienced this on my 3rd PBP with an 8pm start - having previously started at 10am both times - that evening start and consequent sleepiness turned PBP into a "never again" experience for me.
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

SPB

Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #60 on: Today at 08:51:55 am »

I don't see much mention here of just how badly the evening start puts you on the back foot.  I experienced this on my 3rd PBP with an 8pm start - having previously started at 10am both times - that evening start and consequent sleepiness turned PBP into a "never again" experience for me.

Not having done it before, that's one of my primary concerns.  I've ridden round the clock before having started fresh im the morning but that strikes me as a very different proposition to having been up all day and thenriding for 30+ hours before sleeping. 

Going back in 2023 I'll have been through it before, so probably won't feel the need beforehand to attempt to rough out a schedule.  I may not keep to the one I've roughed out for this year but, if nothing else, working out where I might have enough buffer built up to grab some sleep has helped me get a better understanding of quite what I've taken on.

Re: PBP pace planning
« Reply #61 on: Today at 08:55:50 am »
I don't see much mention here of just how badly the evening start puts you on the back foot.  I experienced this on my 3rd PBP with an 8pm start - having previously started at 10am both times - that evening start and consequent sleepiness turned PBP into a "never again" experience for me.

I think the evening start suits some people more than others. It works for me, as I find I'm able to cycle through the night relatively easily when I've not ridden through the previous day. It also means that by the second night I'm sufficiently tired to sleep early and get up early, generally avoiding the impact of the bulge as far as possible.