Author Topic: Electricity Smart Meter  (Read 4524 times)

Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2019, 07:15:10 pm »
Still avoiding them.  We joined AVRO energy - on decent rates, before they got into trouble over smart meters back in May...

Quote
Small energy firm Avro Energy has been banned from taking on new customers because it hasn't joined the national smart meter network.

Update: Avro Energy says the ban has now been lifted.
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Socks

  • FFCT rally, France 2012
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2019, 07:39:24 pm »
We had smart meters installed yesterday.  Only after I had ignored marketing emails for the last year or two, and received confirmation to a direct question confirming that SMETS 2 would be installed.

As I understand it they are paid for by a general charge on utility bills, so (as long as you have a reliable mobile signal) might as well sign up.

andytheflyer

  • Andytheex-flyer.....
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2019, 04:52:27 pm »
We had smart meters installed yesterday.  Only after I had ignored marketing emails for the last year or two, and received confirmation to a direct question confirming that SMETS 2 would be installed.

As I understand it they are paid for by a general charge on utility bills, so (as long as you have a reliable mobile signal) might as well sign up.
I've been fobbing off Scottish Power's emails for months.  Then, last week, someone actually rang me to make an appointment to fit a Smart Meter.  I told him that I didn't want one unless he could guarantee it would be SMETS2, and it would communicate with our iffy you-can-have-Vodafone-if-you-go-to-the-upstairs-front-bedroom, rural mobile signal.  He said it would.  I told him that I didn't believe him. The conversation then deteriorated somewhat and I accused him of fobbing us off with substandard, ill-thought-out technology that we as consumers have to pay for.  He then hung up on me. 

I win.  Again.....

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2019, 05:24:56 pm »
In Scotland and the northern parts of England, they use a separate radio network. So doesn't need a mobile phone signal. Maybe better coverage.

Apparently they can also work in a mesh mode. ie it relays the signal through your neighbours meter, until it gets to one with a network connection. So it could improve, as more people get them installed.

robgul

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  • . . cyclist, Cytech accredited
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Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2019, 08:11:20 pm »

I have made it very clear that if the bloke turns up and the meters aren't SMETS2 he will be sent away, no ifs, no buts,  We'll see.



How will you know whether it is gen 2 or 1?  Other than ask the fitter and believe them.
Interested, as I may give in and get one sooner or later.

I am informed that the man will hve some paperwork which I shall examine before letting him start work, ask the man if it doesn't say SMETS2 and then annotate his paperwork with "this is a SMETS2 installation" . . . that way I have "something to show the judge" should that be necessary.

Rob

MORE on Monday AM : man has just turned up - despite my paperwork saying both meters his says just gas to do - he's checking with his HQ on whether he can do both.  AND he says he has SMETS2 meters in the van (now preparing for no heating, lighting or PC for a while - they say up to 2 hours or so)


Wombat

  • Is it supposed to hurt this much?
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2019, 12:20:13 pm »
In Scotland and the northern parts of England, they use a separate radio network. So doesn't need a mobile phone signal. Maybe better coverage.

Apparently they can also work in a mesh mode. ie it relays the signal through your neighbours meter, until it gets to one with a network connection. So it could improve, as more people get them installed.

That sounds promising, but it relies on a) having neighbours with smart meters (presumably on the same suppliers?)
 and b) having neighbours at all...

I wonder what the range of them is, between meshed meters.


We have a next door neighbour one side (which is about 30 metres away, and they are not with the same supplier).  I imagine they have resisted a smart meter because a) they are Jehovah's witnesses, and b) they are convinced wifi fries their grandchildrens brains. Apart from these oddities, they are perfect decent folk, and share vegetables, and take in parcels, etc.

Other than that, the nearest neighbour is about 400 metres away, and the next one, about twice that in the other direction.
Wombat

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2019, 12:22:08 pm »
I wonder what the range of them is, between meshed meters.

Tens of metres for Zigbee.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Tim Hall

  • I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2019, 01:29:02 pm »


That sounds promising, but it relies on a) having neighbours with smart meters (presumably on the same suppliers?)

AIUI meshed meters don't have to be the same supplier. That's part of the rationale of SMETS2 meters - they don't care which supplier.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Tim Hall

  • I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2019, 01:40:10 pm »
I wonder what the range of them is, between meshed meters.

Tens of metres for Zigbee.

According to this page https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html (I make no claims for its authenticity and know very little about this stuff) Zigbee is for communication within a property:
Quote
The Home Area network or HAN is a bit like your home broadband wireless network and will be used to communicate between the meters, the In Home Display (previously known as Smart Meter Display or Home Energy Monitor) and other items as and when they become available. However where the meter is a long way from the location of the In Home Display, or thick walls are in the way, the current technology (Zigbee at 2.4GHz) won't work. This could be the case for up to 30% of properties.

A different communications method (Zigbee 868MHz) will improve this for about 3.5% of properties but that still leave a large number for whom Smart Meters won't work. Zigbee 868MHz should be available some time in 2018.
Meshing is for comms between your house and (eventually) the Power company.

Quote
The Wide Area Network or WAN is the name given to the communications network between the meters and the company responsible for collecting the data and passing it on to other businesses such as suppliers. This company will usually be the DCC (Data Communications Company) which the government has set up especially for this role supporting the final SMETS2 meters. Depending on the Communications Service Provider, which varies by areas of the UK, the technology can change depending on what works best in a local area. Sometimes your meter will communicate directly with DCC and sometimes it will talk through the meters around you to reach a particular meter which has direct communications with DCC. This form of communications looks like a mesh when you draw out the possible links between meters and is therefore known as a Mesh network.
Meter Alerts
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

robgul

  • Cycle:End-to-End webmaster
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Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2019, 04:33:18 pm »

I have made it very clear that if the bloke turns up and the meters aren't SMETS2 he will be sent away, no ifs, no buts,  We'll see.



How will you know whether it is gen 2 or 1?  Other than ask the fitter and believe them.
Interested, as I may give in and get one sooner or later.

I am informed that the man will hve some paperwork which I shall examine before letting him start work, ask the man if it doesn't say SMETS2 and then annotate his paperwork with "this is a SMETS2 installation" . . . that way I have "something to show the judge" should that be necessary.

Rob

MORE on Monday AM : man has just turned up - despite my paperwork saying both meters his says just gas to do - he's checking with his HQ on whether he can do both.  AND he says he has SMETS2 meters in the van (now preparing for no heating, lighting or PC for a while - they say up to 2 hours or so)

Man got the OK to do both meters - did all the checks, pulled the main fuse and took the cover off the existing electric meter - to find that one of the screws holding the incoming cable in the clamp had sheared across the screwdriver slot so that it couldn't be undone . . . he reckoned it was over-torqued when the meter was replaced about 10 years ago. 

Of course, the task of sorting it wasn't in his remit so he had to report a fault for Western Power to come out and release the incoming terminal block (on the live side) to be able to get the meter off and fit a new (old style) meter before British Gas comes back to fit the SmartMeter.  Oh joy. 

The only upside of all this is that I was forced to tidy and rearrange the garage/workshop so that the meters were accessible.

Rob

Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2019, 11:13:55 am »
We had gas and electric meters fitted a couple of years ago but changed supplier last October so I am now back to supplying meter readings again, what a complete waste of money which the consumer will end up paying the bill for.

I refuse to have a smart meter.  Lots of pressure from my last supplier but No!
Sic transit and all that..

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2019, 10:34:01 pm »
Since buying shop premises 2 months ago, I've been regularly chasing Opus about the smart meters I was promised when I signed up.  Apparently they've got no idea when they'll be installed. 

Luddites.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2020, 11:55:33 am »
We've just requested to switch to EDF's EV tariff. This requires that you have an EV, and is either 12.5p/unit if you don't have a smart meter, or 8p for 10h overnight (9pm->7am), and ~19p at other times, plus 8p from Friday 9pm right through until Monday 7am. All washing etc at the weekend then?

We have a smart meter. Last year I tried to switch us over to the dual rate tariff, but was told no, as our meter was SMETS1 and they would not replace it. So we spoke to British Gas, who also have an EV tariff but with a higher night rate; they were the original supplier when we got the smart meter. I assumed they'd be able to use it. Nope... insane. But they said they would install a new smart meter. This seems to be SMETS2 from what I can tell (looking up model and variant online).

EDF recently emailed to say we could have the 12.5p flat rate - this didn't exist back when we first spoke to them - as a lot of people complained about not being able to have an EV tariff. We decided to try again, thinking that we'd get the split rate. No, they still think our meter is SMETS1. They will us switch to the split rate when our meter is upgraded to SMETS2 in the future.

I am not sure if EDF's info is out of date, or if the meter is really SMETS1 despite my online research suggesting it's SMETS2. I'm hoping this is their error as the split rate will save us money (even so, a flat 12.5p/unit is already going to save us money as it's almost as low as our current night rate).

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2020, 12:07:19 pm »

I got notified recently that the local power company wants to install a smart gas meter in the flat.

It took me way too long trying to work out wtf smart gas is, before I realised what they were trying to do...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2020, 12:45:09 pm »
It took me way too long trying to work out wtf smart gas is

I think I saw that in Doctor Who.  Beware of Macra.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

robgul

  • Cycle:End-to-End webmaster
  • . . cyclist, Cytech accredited
    • Cycle:End-to-End
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2020, 04:54:50 pm »
To update my experience - after a couple "not my job guv" visits a British Gas guy came and broke away the plastic cup around the sheared screw, used my pump pliers to release and fitted noth electric and gas meters (SMETS 2) - that was in mid-December . . . . . we're now moving house at the end of this week and the new house has old-style meters .... and the incumbent supplier (AVRO0 doesn't do smart meters at the moment . . . . that said a quick calculate suggests that the costs are quite a bit lower than we're paying now so I'll just read the meters and email them . . . . unless I get a better deal from British Gas as we're deserting them.

All good fun  . . . . but don't get me started on getting BT to move our phone line and broadband to the new place . . .  it's just 1.46km away (and nearer to the phone exchange - which is actually on the top floor of a Premier Inn in the centre of town) - they need the existing BT user at the new house to cease the line before we can order the change . . . . that then takes 3 days (and that's fastracked as it's a business broadband deal)   Aaaaargh!

Rob

Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2020, 08:46:03 pm »
Mine was fitted while I was with Ovo, ceased to work when I changed to npower, and resumed working when I changed to Tonik.  What a fiasco!
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2020, 09:38:29 pm »
Because Scottish Power messed me up on Smart Meters three times, and offered me £50 each time but never paid it, I've left them for another supplier, which costs the same
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2020, 05:17:49 pm »
Ecotricity phoned me a couple of days ago to offer a smart meter. They are booked in to install it/them next Friday.

When we signed up with Ecotricity 6 years ago they didn’t offer a smart meter, even though SSE, who previously supplied us, did.
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2020, 12:01:33 pm »
EDF recently emailed to say we could have the 12.5p flat rate - this didn't exist back when we first spoke to them - as a lot of people complained about not being able to have an EV tariff. We decided to try again, thinking that we'd get the split rate. No, they still think our meter is SMETS1. They will us switch to the split rate when our meter is upgraded to SMETS2 in the future.

I am not sure if EDF's info is out of date, or if the meter is really SMETS1 despite my online research suggesting it's SMETS2. I'm hoping this is their error as the split rate will save us money (even so, a flat 12.5p/unit is already going to save us money as it's almost as low as our current night rate).

So our switch seems to have happened and yes the smart meter is sending data to EDF despite their claim it was not compatible. We seem to be on the 12.5p flat rate.  This should change to the 8p at night rate once everything is up and running. For now I’m trying to charge the car on sunny days as there’s no penalty when the sun goes in. With the split rate I’ll have to be more careful as you can end up spending more if not careful.

What a palaver. Should never have needed to change the meter to be able to switch tariff.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2020, 07:22:05 pm »
EDF recently emailed to say we could have the 12.5p flat rate - this didn't exist back when we first spoke to them - as a lot of people complained about not being able to have an EV tariff. We decided to try again, thinking that we'd get the split rate. No, they still think our meter is SMETS1. They will us switch to the split rate when our meter is upgraded to SMETS2 in the future.

I am not sure if EDF's info is out of date, or if the meter is really SMETS1 despite my online research suggesting it's SMETS2. I'm hoping this is their error as the split rate will save us money (even so, a flat 12.5p/unit is already going to save us money as it's almost as low as our current night rate).

So our switch seems to have happened and yes the smart meter is sending data to EDF despite their claim it was not compatible. We seem to be on the 12.5p flat rate.  This should change to the 8p at night rate once everything is up and running. For now I’m trying to charge the car on sunny days as there’s no penalty when the sun goes in. With the split rate I’ll have to be more careful as you can end up spending more if not careful.

What a palaver. Should never have needed to change the meter to be able to switch tariff.

Have you seen the Octopus EV tariff at 5p a unit off-peak?
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2020, 07:51:33 pm »
Have you seen the Octopus EV tariff at 5p a unit off-peak?

Yes, a colleague mentioned it some time back. I think we will benefit more from the EDF rate (it's 9pm-7am weeknights and 9pm Friday until 7am Monday over the whole weekend). There is probably not much in it but the number of hours of cheap rate on EDF probably swing it in their favour for our usage, and particularly because we will avoid peak rate use for much of the time with the solar panels.






Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2020, 08:42:58 pm »
We have decided to stick with Ecotricity. I have read good things about Dale Vince helping XR and promising funds when the government gets taken to court by environmentalists.
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

StevieB

  • I'm an embarrassment to my bicycle!
Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2020, 12:53:05 am »
A little bit of background...

First, if you think Ofgen, and Ofcom, and all the other Ofs, are there to protect the interest of consumers of vital amenities, please ask yourself the question: Who regulates the regulators? Answer, the Government. So please give them a bit of slack - they spend most of their time rushing to implement one headline-grabbing half-baked scheme after another...

I'd don't know the current state of play, but here is how things were set up approx 10 years ago (when smart metres were first introduced)... Ofgem forces the big six energy companies (and only them, cause that is only fair!) to add an extra ~5% on all their bills (ie. on all your bills) and said "We are going to give this money back IF you install energy saving equipment/materials into peoples' homes."

Of course that allows the Government to go "Look at all the amazing things we are doing to save the environment!" without having to spend any of their money, or explaining that actually the money is coming directly from consumers...

But it is totally crazee... I mean energy saving is not the core competence of the energy companies, not something close to their hearts, not really in their best interests! Still money is money, so they get some contractors to stick a smart meter on your wall (who cares if it works!), or throw some insulation in your loft - low lying fruit!

So I hope that helps to explain the mess... Yes, there are technical problems, but after 10 years those could have been sorted out had there been some management. Instead responsibility is shared between Government always looking for a quick-fix with no long term commitment, large companies who want to make a profit (not unreasonably IMO), and in between is some not-for-profit organisation which was set up to collect and distribute all the data coming from the smart meters - I've never heard of them but I reckon they don't stand much of a chance!!

In conclusion - smart meters are good in theory, it is the implementation which has been poor.

Should you get one? It won't hurt you, but it might not benefit you either!

It may be self-flagellation, but it still hurts

Re: Electricity Smart Meter
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2020, 07:01:21 am »
Well that was a bit of a giggle.