Author Topic: Being tempted , but .....  (Read 3720 times)

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2019, 10:24:15 am »
Pushing one handed (via the seat) takes a bit of getting used to but it's fine. With ASS steering or braking with the other hand on the handlebars is also fine - I can't speak to USS.

I wheel my Azub Six upright on the back wheel twice a day to get it in the lift. Actually lifting it up is a bit of a strain but it's well behaved once it's upright. I used to have trouble with the front wheel flipping over, but I don't any more (possibly because I attached a little bag to the back of the handlebars).

As Kim says, "helpful" people grabbing the front can be a menace, especially when getting off trains (though FWIW my worst case was a woman). I've had to develop a very firm "please step back".

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2019, 11:39:56 am »
[...]the down-shift into the granny ring is liable to derail the chain (because nothing can shift a 22-36-50 chainset properly, and the drivetrain's complicated and finicky, because aero).

Have you tried a Jump Stop/Dog Fang/other derailment-prevention gadget?  Fitted one on the Trice (24-38-50) after finding myself wearing a Belgian roadie for a hat, also have one on the Speedmachine (20-34-I forget).
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2019, 12:38:58 pm »
[...]the down-shift into the granny ring is liable to derail the chain (because nothing can shift a 22-36-50 chainset properly, and the drivetrain's complicated and finicky, because aero).

Have you tried a Jump Stop/Dog Fang/other derailment-prevention gadget?  Fitted one on the Trice (24-38-50) after finding myself wearing a Belgian roadie for a hat, also have one on the Speedmachine (20-34-I forget).

I've got a Jump Stop somewhere that I haven't got round to fitting (mainly because it started behaving again, to lul me into a false sense of security).  Advanced level shimmery may be required.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2019, 12:58:16 pm »
As to why: I wanted the best tourer possible, and having avoided cleats for years because they seemed kinda weird, I was determined not to repeat that mistake. When I spoke to people about recumbents I got two kinds of responses: people who'd ridden them said they were brilliant, people who hadn't had lots of (superficial seeming) objections. I never met anyone who'd ridden one for any length of time but thought they were a bad idea.

My audax philosophy is that consistency matters more than speed. I can pootle along at the rear, close to the time limits on the controls, because I'm confident that I won't get a puncture, that I can handle a gravel towpath or icy patch, that I'm unlikely to develop pains in my wrists, that I've even got a decent shot at riding on if I were to be in a collision. I'm sure on a lighter bike with faster tires I'd have a better average speed, but I suspect my DNF rate would be higher. I'm not sure I'd even take the luggage racks off, because a lot of the time they're what lets me carry a mat and sleeping bag (and maybe even tent) so that I can stay over the night before an event, even if they're dead weight on the ride proper. I'm aware that most are adherents of a more lightweight approach though.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2019, 01:22:59 pm »
As to why: I wanted the best tourer possible, and having avoided cleats for years because they seemed kinda weird, I was determined not to repeat that mistake. When I spoke to people about recumbents I got two kinds of responses: people who'd ridden them said they were brilliant, people who hadn't had lots of (superficial seeming) objections. I never met anyone who'd ridden one for any length of time but thought they were a bad idea.

Of the people who don't get on with recumbent bikes, it usually seems to come down to either struggling with the learning curve and not getting to the point where they can ride confidently (possibly exacerbated by a preference for pedalling at low cadences), or unrealistic expectations (typically that a comfort-oriented touring bike will perform like a lightweight racing bike) that likely comes from the muggle idea that "recumbent" is a functional class of bicycle.

Recumbent trikes are a different kind of cycling, and while they can have all sorts of accessibility advantages, they're even more biased towards the touring end of the performance spectrum.

Presumably the people who try recumbents and don't immediately see an overwhelming advantage for longer rides are the ones who get on with saddles.  I suspect they're over-represented in the cycling community.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2019, 07:19:18 pm »
When audaxing, how do you Cope with route sheet faff, or how do you see / place your garmin . I must confess to not owning a garmin , and also confess to not doing an audax for a few year due to comfort issues. It's one thing being tired, but the older I get, the less enjoyable it is feeling every bump.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2019, 07:30:55 pm »
When audaxing, how do you Cope with route sheet faff, or how do you see / place your garmin . I must confess to not owning a garmin , and also confess to not doing an audax for a few year due to comfort issues. It's one thing being tired, but the older I get, the less enjoyable it is feeling every bump.

On the Streetmachine (USS) I have a stem clamped to the derailleur post, pointing back towards me, with the Garmin and bike computer mounted on some sort of accessory bar thing that's part of the stem, so they're between my calves/knees.  This is suboptimal, as it means I can only just barely read the map while in motion.  Numbers are fine.  I often use follow-road routing to improve the clarity of the display.  Or, if I'm not in a rush, stop and lean forward.  I've done something similar on Barakta's ICE trike, though it only gets used for navigation when I'm riding it.

If there's a routesheet, it lives in a tri-bag mounted forward of the steerer (along with inhaler and on-the-bike nibbles), which is easy to access when stopped, and I try not to need it.

On the Baron (hamster bars) I have a Garmin mount on the handlebars near the stem, like you would on an upright.  This puts it quite close to my face (handlebar position on tiller-steering 'bents tends to be dictated by finding the position where they foul neither thighs nor boobs, and you can mostly see the ground - everything else has to work with that), but it means that I can peer under my glasses to read the screen and easily press the buttons.  I've got even less room for a routesheet, so it lives in my rack bag for emergencies.

Open-cockpit steering seems to give you loads of room for Stuff.  If you don't bash your shins on it...


If I cared more about routesheets, I'd probably experiment with attaching them to a convenient arm or thigh.  Some proper audaxers will no doubt be along soon with their solutions...
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2019, 09:02:33 pm »
The "little bag" I mentioned on the handlebars is actually a clear-fronted phone-mounting one (convenient for brevet card as well). Being designed for uprights it points at my belly rather than my face but I can lift the bars or duck my head to take a glance at it. I'm used to mostly navigating by audio so I only look at the screen for the occasional confusing junction.

Bit of a bodge but it works for me. I don't know what I'd do with USS.

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2019, 10:10:48 am »
I reckon the break-even point is about 1% rolling hills.  Any hillier, you regret the weight, any flatter and you're winning on aerodynamics.  (Disclaimer: I'm a brick, not a feather.)

I seem to recall reading someone else saying something similar, only they put the tipping point as 6%.  Steeper and the upright would win, less steep and the recumbent takes it.  (Though it might have been in reference to Steve Abraham, and therefore not applicable to normal mortals?)  As you said though, the figure depends upon the bike and "the engine"!

If I cared more about routesheets, I'd probably experiment with attaching them to a convenient arm or thigh.  Some proper audaxers will no doubt be along soon with their solutions...

I asked about this many years ago $ELSEWHERE (in the days before things like Garmin Edges) and the suggested solution was one of the Ortlieb document cases that went around the neck.  Obviously this would fly around randomly in a very annoying fashion whilst you where actually riding, so the solution was to sit on it!

ETA: I've owned 6 recumbents (Streetmachine, Grasshopper, ICE QNT, Giro 20, Giro 26, Grasshopper), but I'm currently riding uprights.  I would probably have been riding a Bacchetta Corsa right now (certainly that was the plan) but it seems that whilst they exist and Bacchetta themselves are remarkably quick & helpful at responding to queries there isn't actually a dealer in the UK who wants to sell you one.  (There are UK Bacchetta dealers certainly, but trying to prise a Corsa out of them even when I was waving my credit card at them and shouting "Take my money!" was not something achievable.)

Arellcat

  • Velonautte
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2019, 04:29:23 pm »
I've got even less room for a routesheet, so it lives in my rack bag for emergencies.  If I cared more about routesheets, I'd probably experiment with attaching them to a convenient arm or thigh.  Some proper audaxers will no doubt be along soon with their solutions...

Thinking back to your hydration tube solution, perhaps something like a retractable badge reel, hooked onto the frame somewhere under the seat, with a wee magnet for preventing flappiness would work for routesheets?  Grab, read, let go.

Talking of "being tempted, but ...", I was tempted by the Seiran SL that was on eBay the past few days.  It was the bike I nearly bought before I ordered my Lightning P-38.  But heck, I'm just not that taken with the idea of audaxing, and besides, my garage already has enough bikes in it.

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2019, 04:41:01 pm »
When audaxing, how do you Cope with route sheet faff, or how do you see / place your garmin . I must confess to not owning a garmin , and also confess to not doing an audax for a few year due to comfort issues. It's one thing being tired, but the older I get, the less enjoyable it is feeling every bump.

I have hamster bars and mount a Etrex 20 just to the right of the stem.  As Kim says it is closer to your face but that also means it is easier to see in bright sunlight than when mounted on the upright.  I tend to have the mount tilted towards me rather than horizontal. As for outesheets, pah, don't bother on the recumbent.  I do carry a back up in the saddlebag behind my head but if the GPS failed (not happened yet), then I'd probably just pull out the routesheet and note the next few villages and towns and try and follow signs. I'd not try and blindly follow the routesheet.  You possibly could mount a bulldog clip and some card in front of the seat provided your thighs didn't foul the routesheet paper.  But like Kim being using GPS for almost two decades, learnt the foibles of the Etrex 20, use it in track (tracks that I have adjusted so I know they work on the etrex) mode, and know what I'll get out of a set of AAs.  One backup set of AA's is sufficient, and there's always garages and most shops for replacements.  A set of rechargable AAs will last 600km now, so running out rarely an issue outside of winter cold, or the big ones.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2019, 08:08:28 pm »

I asked about this many years ago $ELSEWHERE (in the days before things like Garmin Edges) and the suggested solution was one of the Ortlieb document cases that went around the neck.  Obviously this would fly around randomly in a very annoying fashion whilst you where actually riding, so the solution was to sit on it!


I used to keep mine tucked under my arm.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2019, 09:08:04 pm »
printed double sided, 2 pages per side, folded, in a small plastic bag same size as brevet card, fits in the rear pocket even when recumbenting.  YMMV, but I find that it's only the middel of the rear pockets unobtainable.  Anything not immediately required goes in the rack pack. Snacks etc go in the tri-bag on the stem.

GPS, lights, camera (if you like) get mounted on the handlebars.  I navigate preferentially by GPS
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2019, 09:24:36 pm »
printed double sided, 2 pages per side, folded, in a small plastic bag same size as brevet card, fits in the rear pocket even when recumbenting.  YMMV, but I find that it's only the middel of the rear pockets unobtainable.

Yeahbut, things in rear pockets do one of three things onna bent:

End up squished.
Cause a bruise.
End up floppy with a smudge where useful information was once written.

Attempts to avoid the latter with ziplock bag technology instead ends up defeating the Ventisit.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2019, 10:23:51 pm »
printed double sided, 2 pages per side, folded, in a small plastic bag same size as brevet card, fits in the rear pocket even when recumbenting.  YMMV, but I find that it's only the middel of the rear pockets unobtainable.

Yeahbut, things in rear pockets do one of three things onna bent:

End up squished.
Cause a bruise.
End up floppy with a smudge where useful information was once written.

Attempts to avoid the latter with ziplock bag technology instead ends up defeating the Ventisit.

100-200 routesheet goes on a single sheet of paper, folds no bigger than the Brevet, fits in the same pocket in a zip loc bag.

Left pocket - phone, credit card, £10, bog roll all in one bag, maybe a snackbar as well. Right pocket - blood glucose test kit, brevert card and route sheet in a nother bag.  Fits the ventisit no probs
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

fd3

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2019, 01:55:27 pm »
Talking of "being tempted, but ...", I was tempted by the Seiran SL that was on eBay the past few days.  It was the bike I nearly bought before I ordered my Lightning P-38.  But heck, I'm just not that taken with the idea of audaxing, and besides, my garage already has enough bikes in it.
Xte! had I seen that ...
[/I could be wrong]

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2019, 09:19:10 pm »
Here is my recumbent tiller bar setup just the GPS (plus bell). I was checking today and I have the bars set so they sit above my belly button.


fd3

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2019, 11:43:28 pm »
[/I could be wrong]

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2019, 11:53:52 pm »
Pssst, Blodwyn
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=129999

That looks almost, but not quite entirely, unlike a Streetmachine as I know it.

Perhaps an early model from before it gained the 'GT'?

To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Arellcat

  • Velonautte
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2019, 11:34:40 am »
Perhaps an early model from before it gained the 'GT'?

Yep.  It's an original Streetmachine from about 1995.  When you look at its SWB contemporaries, such as the Streetglider, the Ostrad, the Radius Hornet, the Kingcycle, the Speed Ross, and the Flux ST, you realise how much HP Velo raised the bar.  I think the Lightning P-38 is possibly the only contemporary SWB that is still being made.

Ben Kinetics had an original Streetmachine frameset kicking around in his attic for donkeys years.  A good while ago I was going to buy it from him, until I realised the seat was far too small for me.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2019, 10:28:24 pm »
Pssst, Blodwyn
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=129999

Yes I saw that, but not all that is shown in the pic is for sale. Alas the bike I dithered over has now sold, so I missed out, not sure if that's a good thing or bad. Swmbo wasn't convinced, not that I listen anyway, but , usually what she says does make sense. I'll still look for a cheaper GT maybe.

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2019, 10:56:13 am »
Pssst, Blodwyn
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=129999

That looks exactly like my first recumbent ...  Right down to the early Magura HS33 hydraulic rim brakes, and the reflective tape on the back of the seat!  :-o  It used to have an improvised mid-rack (i.e. not the official HPVelotechnik product) and was also mahoosively overgeared!  If the picture when a little further to the left then we'd see if it had the overly short mudguard I fitted.  The original was broken, the replacement wasn't broken but also wasn't quite long enough to prevent the back of your neck getting sprayed!

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2019, 03:20:09 pm »
Have you been tempted yet?

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2019, 07:38:36 pm »
No not yet, still sort of looking tho. :-\

Re: Being tempted , but .....
« Reply #74 on: July 19, 2019, 07:21:46 pm »
I lurk here from time to time. Nearly made the necessary arrangements, but ended up with a Cruzbike framekit, end of line, poverty-spec, thing.

https://www.marktplaats.nl/z/fietsen-en-brommers/fietsen-ligfietsen/ligfiets.html?query=ligfiets&categoryId=458
Cruzbike V2k