Author Topic: All Points North  (Read 3361 times)

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: All Points North
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2019, 02:21:50 pm »
400 entrants for the 80 places mentioned😜 good luck

I thought it might by worse odds.

We shall see - I'll be thrilled to get a place!
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: All Points North
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2019, 02:26:46 pm »
I put down 'super randonneur 2018' as the main item of my 'work experience' on my application, which I thought would be enough to be fairly sure of a place, but now I don't know what to think!

It will be interesting to see how many SRs get a place.
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Re: All Points North
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2019, 04:07:41 pm »
I never bothered to enter in the end. 

It would have been the main event of my cycling year, but with such a high chance of not getting a place, I couldn't take that risk, and I've entered something else instead.

Good to see it continuing to be a successful event.
@CorbieLinnRider

Re: All Points North
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2019, 07:05:25 pm »
400 entrants for the 80 places mentioned😜 good luck

I’ve made my application but with those odds I’m not sure it’ll go any further than that. We shall see though!

Re: All Points North
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2019, 10:55:51 am »
wonder if they will rule out those who DNF'd last year. With a 5 x subscription I'm guessing they can but then would you let the winner back or let the road decide?. Really since there are no prizes you could just ride it anyway as a DIY.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: All Points North
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2019, 12:46:06 pm »
I don't think they will - especially as many of the DNFers last year dropped out on safety grounds. They can't be seen to be punishing people for risk assessing their ride.
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bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: All Points North
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2019, 04:33:59 pm »
Allegedly places will be announced "this afternoon."

It's now 1633..... :)
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Re: All Points North
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2019, 04:37:47 pm »
My rejection email has just arrived!

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: All Points North
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2019, 04:51:56 pm »
Same.

Thank goodness for that ;D
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marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: All Points North
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2019, 04:53:18 pm »
Me too!

I have a place for Pure Peak Grit a couple of weeks later which is even more of a ride around my new 'hood, so that's a good goal for the summer.  Both may have been a big ask.

I will offer any help I can down in Sheffield if needed.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: All Points North
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2019, 08:02:26 pm »

I have a place for Pure Peak Grit ...

I believe PPG and APN require helmets. And neither are Audaxes. Just saying ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: All Points North
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2019, 11:17:23 am »
I don't think they will - especially as many of the DNFers last year dropped out on safety grounds. They can't be seen to be punishing people for risk assessing their ride.

Surely you would think of that beforehand given the terrain. It's up a big hill, will it be wind/rain/ice or all 3? Anyone who has been up Tan Hill can see 3 seasons in about 10km.

Re: All Points North
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2019, 02:32:19 pm »
I'm in for APN in 2020 with my sidekick Lorna. Looking forward to seeing the full line up if/when it's published. Very excited and already started plotting my route ⛰⛰⛰

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: All Points North
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2019, 11:40:50 pm »
I'm in for APN in 2020 with my sidekick Lorna. Looking forward to seeing the full line up if/when it's published. Very excited and already started plotting my route ⛰⛰⛰

"Out the start, and Up!"

J
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FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: All Points North
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2019, 01:17:06 am »
I don't think they will - especially as many of the DNFers last year dropped out on safety grounds. They can't be seen to be punishing people for risk assessing their ride.

Surely you would think of that beforehand given the terrain. It's up a big hill, will it be wind/rain/ice or all 3? Anyone who has been up Tan Hill can see 3 seasons in about 10km.
You need to think about what you wrote there...

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Re: All Points North
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2019, 03:03:50 pm »
I'm in for APN in 2020 with my sidekick Lorna. Looking forward to seeing the full line up if/when it's published. Very excited and already started plotting my route ⛰⛰⛰

prob the only time apart from the start when you will see the full line up. Be interested to see how people do this - Go generally clockwise or anti clockwise? Main roads through the borders or a more convoluted route.

Re: All Points North
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2019, 10:39:35 am »
Sheffield, Ripon, Arncliffe, Keld, Kirkstone Pass, Silloth, Berwick, Rosedale Abbey (NYM), Castle Howard, and back to Sheffield.
#848km + 8724m

Re: All Points North
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2019, 11:00:55 am »
You've missed Blanchland.

My route would've been the same though I couldn't get it below 1000k & 10000m.

Re: All Points North
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2019, 11:41:14 am »
You've missed Blanchland.
My route would've been the same though I couldn't get it below 1000k & 10000m.
Thank you, Jamie. I've added in Blanchland on the way south from Berwick - much nicer ride/route - and now have 876.8km +9,781m (RwGPS).

Re: All Points North
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2019, 02:17:24 pm »
You've missed Blanchland.
My route would've been the same though I couldn't get it below 1000k & 10000m.
Thank you, Jamie. I've added in Blanchland on the way south from Berwick - much nicer ride/route - and now have 876.8km +9,781m (RwGPS).

To be a pedant, I wonder if this counts as outside support. Sure you'd have noticed eventually but I think discussion of your route is frowned upon by some other race's groups.

Edit: I'm not bothered either way but it's interesting to define what unsupported actually means. What unsupported means to one person might mean supported to another.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: All Points North
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2019, 12:36:13 am »

To be a pedant, I wonder if this counts as outside support. Sure you'd have noticed eventually but I think discussion of your route is frowned upon by some other race's groups.

Edit: I'm not bothered either way but it's interesting to define what unsupported actually means. What unsupported means to one person might mean supported to another.

If only there was some kind of central site for all things ultra racing, where an article discussing the various takes on what counts as support could be published... ;p

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: All Points North
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2019, 09:54:35 am »

To be a pedant, I wonder if this counts as outside support. Sure you'd have noticed eventually but I think discussion of your route is frowned upon by some other race's groups.

Edit: I'm not bothered either way but it's interesting to define what unsupported actually means. What unsupported means to one person might mean supported to another.

If only there was some kind of central site for all things ultra racing, where an article discussing the various takes on what counts as support could be published... ;p

J

Haha it's on my radar, don't worry!

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: All Points North
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2019, 10:19:59 am »
You've missed Blanchland.
My route would've been the same though I couldn't get it below 1000k & 10000m.
Thank you, Jamie. I've added in Blanchland on the way south from Berwick - much nicer ride/route - and now have 876.8km +9,781m (RwGPS).

To be a pedant, I wonder if this counts as outside support. Sure you'd have noticed eventually but I think discussion of your route is frowned upon by some other race's groups.

AFAIK outsider support is fine if it's support everyone else is entitled to.

So if you got a secret gratis consultation with some route boffin then that might be questionable, but since you're asking on a public forum everyone can use then I think that's OK.

According to the letter of the rules, if someone opened a LLC route making consultancy firm and charged a nominal 50p rate for a consultation, this would amount to a 'commercially available service' and then would be 100% kosher... In these circumstances we just have to make a judgement on whether the activity is within the spirit of the event.
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Re: All Points North
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2019, 11:50:36 am »
You've missed Blanchland.
My route would've been the same though I couldn't get it below 1000k & 10000m.
Thank you, Jamie. I've added in Blanchland on the way south from Berwick - much nicer ride/route - and now have 876.8km +9,781m (RwGPS).
To be a pedant, I wonder if this counts as outside support. Sure you'd have noticed eventually but I think discussion of your route is frowned upon by some other race's groups.
Edit: I'm not bothered either way but it's interesting to define what unsupported actually means. What unsupported means to one person might mean supported to another.
Grace - I wish you well on APN. I got grumbled at by drafting a route last year for fun - I wasn't 'racing'. So this year I'm not sharing 'my' route (and have not called the route 'All Points North' and have not started at the Race HQ). I think 900km and 10,000m of climb (as per @theotherjamie) is a good benchmark for riders to aim at. I think that no reasonable rider/planner would judge offering a quantative benchmark for distance and climb as crossing the inarticulate 'outside support' threshold.
APN website (my emboldening): "Please keep your planned routes private prior to the event." "The ride is completely unsupported, so once the riders are out on the road they’re looking after themselves completely."
In the spirit of 'unsupported' I rather like the idea of this style of event where participants are given some of the controls but not all, told that the distance will be (say) less than 1000km, and given the full set of controls at Sheffield at the start time. Full disclosure: long orienteering background.
For example: Sheffield, Silloth, Berwick, Sheffield.
My opinion is that last year's controls offered several route choice options but this year there's a binary choice: riders will either go clockwise, or anti-clockwise, or, I suppose, ride a longer route with more climb, for extra fun.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: All Points North
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2019, 11:56:16 am »
AFAIK outsider support is fine if it's support everyone else is entitled to.

It depends. At the route planning stage, asking locals for advice is accepted. James sort advice from local riders for his route on one of the TCR rides.

Asking other riders in the same event tho goes against self sufficiency.

Publicly requesting it on a forum or social media I would suggest is against the spirit of the rules, if not also the letter.

There's also the question of receiving unsolicited advice. What happens if someone moans on social media "Ugh, can't find a nice route between a and b, that doesn't involve this section of horrible road"

To which someone replies unsolicited "try going via x, and then take the y road up to z".

It's also like if you are in the middle of a race, have a mechanical and tweet out "bugger, need to find a bike shop. This is all I need" and someone you don't know replies "There's a bike shop in the next village at $place"

Are we supposed to ignore this? What if we'd found that bike shop already and were heading there when we saw the message. Or if we didn't see the message but were going there? Where is the line drawn?

It's the same with how trail magic is accepted, as long as you haven't summoned it. If some dot watcher wants to stand by the side of the road and give out water and mars bars to a few riders going past, that is generally accepted as long as you don't know them, and as long as you haven't summoned it.

Tho if you listen to the panel at Look Mum No Hands on the wheel suckers podcast, there is some discussion that those at the front tend to be a lot stricter about this than those at the back.

Quote
So if you got a secret gratis consultation with some route boffin then that might be questionable, but since you're asking on a public forum everyone can use then I think that's OK.

According to the letter of the rules, if someone opened a LLC route making consultancy firm and charged a nominal 50p rate for a consultation, this would amount to a 'commercially available service' and then would be 100% kosher... In these circumstances we just have to make a judgement on whether the activity is within the spirit of the event.

There's companies specialising in training for ultra races, how long until we get route consultancy companies too...

My opinion is that last year's controls offered several route choice options but this year there's a binary choice: riders will either go clockwise, or anti-clockwise, or, I suppose, ride a longer route with more climb, for extra fun.

I wonder if this reflects general consensus from the dotwatching community that the event was hard to follow in terms of who was in the lead and who wasn't due to no easy to see route.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
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