Author Topic: Coping with the Dozies  (Read 3769 times)

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2019, 05:47:36 pm »
On my last 400 I filled my bidon with a litre of something called Blue Bear I purchased at a petrol station. Every time I felt remotely sleepy I took a big glug. Doesn't taste great but boy does it keep you awake.

Likewise on my last 400. A litre of garage Tesco Blue Spark.  As a caffeine abstainer the stuff is like rocket fuel.  Nasty but effective.

On multi-day rides I try and ration the stuff so it will still have an impact, and avoid for a couple of hours before trying to sleep.

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2019, 06:19:13 pm »
You can buy little cans of Starbucks Espresso that are somewhat more respectable version of the same thing.

I cocked up my BCM attempt by trying to wear contact lenses through the night and convincing myself I had serious dozies and needed to sleep every 5 minutes, when really I just had dry eyes. The feeling of your eyes closing involuntarily was indistinguishable.

halhorner

  • Cycling Weakly
Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2019, 07:08:37 pm »
On my last 400 I filled my bidon with a litre of something called Blue Bear I purchased at a petrol station. Every time I felt remotely sleepy I took a big glug. Doesn't taste great but boy does it keep you awake.
Are you sure it wasn't screenwash?

halhorner

  • Cycling Weakly
Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2019, 07:11:29 pm »
On my last 400 I filled my bidon with a litre of something called Blue Bear I purchased at a petrol station. Every time I felt remotely sleepy I took a big glug. Doesn't taste great but boy does it keep you awake.
Are you sure it wasn't screenwash?
Oh I see what you did there  :facepalm:

JennyB

  • Old enough to know better
Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2019, 08:29:15 pm »
I sometimes semi-"sleep" standing up. All you need to do is stop by a gate, rest your head on your folded arms and close your eyes. I (probably) don't actually fully sleep, but it's enough of a mind rest to not feel the urgent need to sleep any more.


Has anyone tried the method Samuel Beckett describes - resting astride the bike, feet on the ground, arms and head on the bars?
Jennifer - walker of hills



Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2019, 08:52:01 pm »
I sometimes semi-"sleep" standing up. All you need to do is stop by a gate, rest your head on your folded arms and close your eyes. I (probably) don't actually fully sleep, but it's enough of a mind rest to not feel the urgent need to sleep any more.


Has anyone tried the method Samuel Beckett describes - resting astride the bike, feet on the ground, arms and head on the bars?

See the end of https://hertsaudax.uk/the-call-of-the-wild-day-1/

It works ok as long as you don't really fall asleep. If you fall asleep your legs will buckle. See day 6 for when that happens.

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2019, 09:18:12 pm »
I sometimes semi-"sleep" standing up. All you need to do is stop by a gate, rest your head on your folded arms and close your eyes. I (probably) don't actually fully sleep, but it's enough of a mind rest to not feel the urgent need to sleep any more.


Has anyone tried the method Samuel Beckett describes - resting astride the bike, feet on the ground, arms and head on the bars?

I would have thought probably not quite as good as a gate as you have to support yourself laterally (side to side) with your feet as the bike doesn't do it for you whereas a gate sort of does. You also have to lean over more I guess?
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • 3x Brimstone ancien 3x Pendle/Tan Hill DNF
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2019, 09:21:46 pm »
On the flip side I tried Red Bull once.  I was really alert for an hour and then had the caffeine equivalent of a sugar crash.
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 168 (metric) 518 (furlongs)  111 (nautical miles)

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2019, 09:43:01 pm »
Wiki...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_energy_drinks

I hadn't heard of most of these.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2019, 09:50:50 pm »
How about some chili peppers? I was mooting this just now with some buds. Some hot fiery peppers as stimulants to keep you awake? 🤔
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


S2L

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2019, 07:14:27 am »
If sleeping is a concern, the idea is that you should build enough contingency to have a 5-6 hour sleep on a 600. If you don't, it's one of two reasons:
either you don't cycle fast enough, in which case you have to wonder whether BRM are for you and you'd be better off doing BR where you get a bit more time (on something like WCW you might get an extra couple of hours if not more as a BR) or, more likely, you spend too much time at controls.

At WCW some riders spent well in excess of an hour at a mid afternoon control, typically on their phone or generally "faffing" with their bag and clothes... multiply that for the number of controls, and you run out of contingency for the night.

Moral, plan your stops, 20-30 minutes should be plenty

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2019, 08:33:10 am »
Yes - any time you're not moving, you should be sleeping, eating with a knife and fork or going to the lav !

The most efficient of us, might try and combine these perhaps ;-)

JennyB

  • Old enough to know better
Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2019, 08:57:17 am »
Yes - any time you're not moving, you should be sleeping, eating with a knife and fork or going to the lav !

The most efficient of us, might try and combine these perhaps ;-)


Eat on the lavvy, wake up with your face on the plate?
Jennifer - walker of hills



Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2019, 09:03:09 am »
Excessive time at controls can be a sign something else is wrong - either your mind is no long on the ride or you're suffering physically one way or another. The fiddling with bag/phone/etc is just something to do with your hands.

I can't imagine many riders get anything like 5-6 hours sleep on a typical BRM 600.

S2L

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2019, 09:21:37 am »
Excessive time at controls can be a sign something else is wrong - either your mind is no long on the ride or you're suffering physically one way or another. The fiddling with bag/phone/etc is just something to do with your hands.

I can't imagine many riders get anything like 5-6 hours sleep on a typical BRM 600.

A couple of models

Rider A moves at 25 km/h and spends 30 minutes at each of the 8 controls, it will take him/her 24 hours moving + 4 hours at controls, so in a BRM that's 12 hours to play with, obviously not 12 hours sleep, because he/she would probably be out of time at the following control, but still a lot of time.
Should the same rider spend 1 hours at each control, then it's "only" 8 hours to play with

Rider B moves at 20 km/h, using the same model, it's 30 hours on the road + 4 at controls, still a 6 hours contingency, which means possibly up to 4 hours sleep at the night contro, not bad.
With 1 hour at each control, then it's 38 hours, which means only 2 hours contingency, a lot less at the time of the night control, and basically zero time to sleep or he/she will be out of time at the following control.

If moving at less than 20km/h in a non AAA event, one should question whether BRM is suitable.

Ultimately, an Audax is a "race" against time, faffing with smart phones and taking 15 minutes from wanting to leave the control to actually leaving the control needs to be fixed

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2019, 10:25:13 am »
Sleeping well before a big event, especially one with an audax o'clock start, is a skill I've yet to master.

As I've learnt for a variety of silly o'clock endurance event starts.. it's the night before the night before that really counts !

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2019, 10:32:23 am »
On my last 400 I filled my bidon with a litre of something called Blue Bear I purchased at a petrol station. Every time I felt remotely sleepy I took a big glug. Doesn't taste great but boy does it keep you awake.

Likewise on my last 400. A litre of garage Tesco Blue Spark.  As a caffeine abstainer the stuff is like rocket fuel.  Nasty but effective.

On multi-day rides I try and ration the stuff so it will still have an impact, and avoid for a couple of hours before trying to sleep.

I picked up these from my regular outdoor shop to try on a (10pm start) 600 last year:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Caffeine-Bullet-Electrolyte-Chews-High-Intensity/dp/B07F14M8FH
They pretty much saved my ride on two occasions... early doors on the first night staring at the lights in a motorway underpass, had one and then just kept looking over shoulder for the sun to rise. Second night again before dawn having set out at 2am knowing I needed to be alert for the descent off shap.
I bought some more for steam express last weekend and made use of, also helps if you don't want a caffeinated gel, or to stop for coffee and they're soft, chewy and minty.. likely a change of flavour and texture from anything else :-)

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2019, 10:48:34 am »
My point is it's very hard for an outside observer to tell if someone is wasting time *because* they're faffing, or if they're "faffing" because their mind/body is not yet ready to get back on the bike for another 3 hour stint. There's no point in getting in and out of a control in 20 minutes if it means they'll be stopping a little up the road for whatever reason.

Rider B moves at 20 km/h, using the same model, it's 30 hours on the road + 4 at controls, still a 6 hours contingency, which means possibly up to 4 hours sleep at the night contro, not bad.
With 1 hour at each control, then it's 38 hours, which means only 2 hours contingency, a lot less at the time of the night control, and basically zero time to sleep or he/she will be out of time at the following control.

If this rider sleeps for four hours they'll have no contingency for the next day, which will inevitably be ridden slower and they don't know how their legs will feel, how the headwinds will be, what mechanicals/biomechanicals they'll face, etc. Not a good strategy.

Quote
If moving at less than 20km/h in a non AAA event, one should question whether BRM is suitable.

You've probably just excluded half the field!

My average on-the-road speed for this was 19 km/h and I finished comfortably on an hour-ish sleep.

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2019, 10:54:42 am »
I picked up these from my regular outdoor shop to try on a (10pm start) 600 last year:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Caffeine-Bullet-Electrolyte-Chews-High-Intensity/dp/B07F14M8FH

Interesting.  There's also this stuff (which saw a few of us through the latter stages of LEL 2013):

https://www.edcgear.co.uk/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=STAYALRTC

Actually tastes quite nice.  Not sure of the military connection or the claim to "save lives"  ;D

S2L

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2019, 11:25:31 am »
I don't think it's right to take caffeine pills to finish an audax to be honest.
It doesn't strike me as much different from the early days of doping, when riders were taking amphetamines to cope with exhaustion. And I am not questioning the morality, of which I don't give a monkey, but rather the cost/benefit balance

If the demand is too much on the body, one should question whether they are doing the right thing. Long term, there is a price to pay in pushing your body beyond the limit


Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2019, 11:28:31 am »
I don't think it's right to take caffeine pills to finish an audax to be honest.
It doesn't strike me as much different from the early days of doping, when riders were taking amphetamines to cope with exhaustion. And I am not questioning the morality, of which I don't give a monkey, but rather the cost/benefit balance

If the demand is too much on the body, one should question whether they are doing the right thing. Long term, there is a price to pay in pushing your body beyond the limit

Nothing whatever to do with "riding beyond my limit". I finished 18 hours inside the time limit for LEL 2013.  I just wanted to ride through some of the last night without putting myself or others at risk.

So you would ban coffee, tea, etc?  That's all we're talking about here.

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2019, 11:39:31 am »
I don't think it's right to take caffeine pills to finish an audax to be honest.
It doesn't strike me as much different from the early days of doping, when riders were taking amphetamines to cope with exhaustion. And I am not questioning the morality, of which I don't give a monkey, but rather the cost/benefit balance

If the demand is too much on the body, one should question whether they are doing the right thing. Long term, there is a price to pay in pushing your body beyond the limit

There's a massive difference between taking speed and having some caffeine in whatever form.

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2019, 11:49:15 am »
I don't think it's right to take caffeine pills to finish an audax to be honest.
It doesn't strike me as much different from the early days of doping, when riders were taking amphetamines to cope with exhaustion. And I am not questioning the morality, of which I don't give a monkey, but rather the cost/benefit balance

If the demand is too much on the body, one should question whether they are doing the right thing. Long term, there is a price to pay in pushing your body beyond the limit
Better to use in the case of need rather than falling asleep though. But I wouldn't plan on using it to ride straight through without sleeping. Like I generally carry a survival blanket on long rides but dont plan on using it.
   Eddington  87 miles

S2L

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2019, 11:55:26 am »
As I said,

if your body is tired enough that you fall asleep while doing intense activity, probably you need to sleep rather than popping pills.
Obviously do what you like...



Related (to fatigue) and unrelated (it's not about sleep)... this doesn't explain how something like the year mileage record is even possible

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48527798

Re: Coping with the Dozies
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2019, 11:57:55 am »
As I said,

if your body is tired enough that you fall asleep while doing intense activity, probably you need to sleep rather than popping pills.
Obviously do what you like...


I don't class Audax as intense activity.   Zone 1/Zone 2  at best.