Author Topic: Pedestrian on the phone  (Read 4333 times)

Socks

  • FFCT rally, France 2012
Pedestrian on the phone
« on: June 18, 2019, 05:45:07 pm »
I wonder if this standard of care applies when I am driving a car and a pedestrian steps out in front  of me while looking at their phone?

Woman knocked down while on phone wins payout from cyclist

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/18/woman-knocked-down-while-on-phone-wins-payout-from-cyclist?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2019, 06:08:18 pm »
Quote
The judge’s ruling found that the parties shared responsibility, so while Brushett is guaranteed a payout, she will get only half of the full value of her claim.

I think the cyclist has erred by not putting in a counter claim.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2019, 06:14:26 pm »
TBH, I think that as the operator of the more dangerous vehicle, it's reasonable that the cyclist is responsible by default.  The pedestrian stepping out without paying attention being a mitigating factor is also reasonable.  *shrugs*
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

fd3

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2019, 06:18:46 pm »
While it may be reasonable, it’s not the law.
[/I could be wrong]

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2019, 06:24:07 pm »
Wonder if the decision will be appealed.  Does this set a precedent?

LMT

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2019, 07:34:27 pm »
My understanding is he sounded his air horn, shouted and then tried swerving - he would have been better off applying the brakes.

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2019, 07:49:39 pm »
My understanding is he sounded his air horn, shouted and then tried swerving - he would have been better off applying the brakes.

I was thinking that, I'd be on my brakes but also shouting a warning.  There's a law of physics that means pedestrians will move to the gap you are aiming for.  Anyone who ever cycles on shared infrastructure will be aware of this law.

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2019, 07:57:31 pm »
My understanding is he sounded his air horn, shouted and then tried swerving - he would have been better off applying the brakes.
I'm struggling to argue with any of that.

ETA: Also, as has been mentioned elsewhere - so tell me if I am wrong - but anyone riding a bike fitted with an airhorn has an attitude of the cuntish variety.
Am I wrong?

If there's an expectation of the sort of sound which emanates from a bicycle.
It is that of a bell.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2019, 08:01:17 pm »
I really don't understand people whose reaction to a developing hazard is to reach for the horn, rather than the brakes.  By all means yell something incoherent while you're at it; on a bike they might even hear you.

Swerving round pedestrians - while sometimes necessary - is a recipe for doom, for the reason Phil W states.  Slowing down and aiming for the gap being created behind them tends to fail for the same reason - they'll make eye contact and jump backwards.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2019, 08:09:59 pm »
What about socks’ question though?

I wonder if this standard of care applies when I am driving a car and a pedestrian steps out in front  of me while looking at their phone?
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2019, 09:00:27 pm »
Surely the expectation in London is that pedestrians will step out in front of you. Coming out of a busy London Bridge Station in a morning, you can guarantee a good half dozen will cross in front of me without even a glance.

No sense getting aggravated and honking, bell ringing, and yelling at them, I slow down as necessary. I'm minded that we should all give way to pedestrians, it's our default state. Give them a smile and wave them through, you'll both have a nicer day.

But yes, I'd hope a higher standard of care would be applied to drivers. I suspect, as ever though, that I'll be disappointed.
!nataS pihsroW

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2019, 10:04:39 pm »
Surely the expectation in London is that pedestrians will step out in front of you. Coming out of a busy London Bridge Station in a morning, you can guarantee a good half dozen will cross in front of me without even a glance.

No sense getting aggravated and honking, bell ringing, and yelling at them, I slow down as necessary. I'm minded that we should all give way to pedestrians, it's our default state. Give them a smile and wave them through, you'll both have a nicer day.

But yes, I'd hope a higher standard of care would be applied to drivers. I suspect, as ever though, that I'll be disappointed.

Oh I'd love to see you commute through central Amsterdam at rush hour...

It's not so much the pedestrians, it's the Tourists...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Tim Hall

  • I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2019, 10:07:40 pm »
Surely the expectation in London is that pedestrians will step out in front of you. Coming out of a busy London Bridge Station in a morning, you can guarantee a good half dozen will cross in front of me without even a glance.

No sense getting aggravated and honking, bell ringing, and yelling at them, I slow down as necessary. I'm minded that we should all give way to pedestrians, it's our default state. Give them a smile and wave them through, you'll both have a nicer day.

But yes, I'd hope a higher standard of care would be applied to drivers. I suspect, as ever though, that I'll be disappointed.

Oh I'd love to see you commute through central Amsterdam at rush hour...

It's not so much the pedestrians, it's the Tourists...

J
Are the Tourists on foot, and therefore pedestrians?
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2019, 10:11:55 pm »
Are the Tourists on foot, and therefore pedestrians?

I thought pedestrian was reserved for humans...

They have an ambulatory quality similar to pedestrians, but their situational awareness, sense of direction, and general demeanour is unlike the human pedestrians that live here...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2019, 10:18:15 pm »
You move about somewhere where others carry out unexpected movements - always expect the unexpected.

(if it is the case) As for hooting the horn rather than controlling the bike and slowing down. Indicates a state of mind. HOOT I'M MORE IMPORTANT!!!
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2019, 07:48:15 am »
My experience of REAL hazards is that you are too busy trying to avoid - and/or braking to actually do anything else.  If he had time to hoot, then he had time to brake.


But.... like others have said... this expectation of the judge is not really applied to many motorists much now is it.  ::-)


Since it's a 50/50 decision of liability he should definitely counter-claim.
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2019, 08:36:37 am »
The mere fact he had and air horn in the first place suggests he was keen to use it on somebody
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2019, 10:51:55 am »
As far as I can tell, neither were seriously injured, so perhaps rather than lawyers, they'd both have benefited from learning a lesson rather than arguing who is to blame and by how much.
!nataS pihsroW

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2019, 12:45:41 pm »
Surely the expectation in London is that pedestrians will step out in front of you. Coming out of a busy London Bridge Station in a morning, you can guarantee a good half dozen will cross in front of me without even a glance.

No sense getting aggravated and honking, bell ringing, and yelling at them, I slow down as necessary. I'm minded that we should all give way to pedestrians, it's our default state. Give them a smile and wave them through, you'll both have a nicer day.

But yes, I'd hope a higher standard of care would be applied to drivers. I suspect, as ever though, that I'll be disappointed.

As with so many of your Posts, I'm with you on this one Sir! I salute you!
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

fd3

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2019, 03:46:05 pm »
I really don't understand people whose reaction to a developing hazard is to reach for the horn, rather than the brakes. 
It's learned behaviour, learned from motorists.  Sadly (as has been stated) it appears to be acceptable practice for motorists to do this and is considered "fair warning".
[/I could be wrong]

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2019, 03:48:55 pm »
I really don't understand people whose reaction to a developing hazard is to reach for the horn, rather than the brakes. 
It's learned behaviour, learned from motorists.  Sadly (as has been stated) it appears to be acceptable practice for motorists to do this and is considered "fair warning".

To be fair, in a car, you can lean on the brakes and the horn at the same time.

On a bike tho, not as plausible, tho on some disc brakes, you do get a similar effect...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2019, 03:54:05 pm »
It can be dangerous for me to just jam on the brakes or indeed sharply alter course; there might be someone behind me who'll come crashing in to me. This has happened when a pedestrian wandered across in front of me from behind a big tree, on a segregated cycleway in the rain, I braked as safely as I could and someone behind me came plowing into me saying 'sorry sorry sorry' (I think their rim brakes weren't the best...).

There is no right answer to this shit except scanning the road ahead for possible sleepwalkers and whistling or ringing a bell.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2019, 03:59:00 pm »
Some sections of my commute include canal towpath with blind-corner-under-bridge features.
It never ceases to amaze me at the number of (usually) male riders who will ring their  bell into one of these blind corners without having reduced their speed In The Slightest.
If I'm 'Ding-dinging!' my way into one of these, my speed is such that were it any slower, my two options would be a) foot down or b) track stand (which I'm not capable of doing, anyway).

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2019, 04:05:17 pm »
I really don't understand people whose reaction to a developing hazard is to reach for the horn, rather than the brakes. 
It's learned behaviour, learned from motorists.  Sadly (as has been stated) it appears to be acceptable practice for motorists to do this and is considered "fair warning".

MIL's husband drives like this.  When he sees some hazard developing, he moves his hand to above the horn where I'd be grabbing the steering wheel with both hands and moving my foot to the brake pedal.  It's just one of the reasons I don't like being in his car[1].

Still not sure where people learn that from.  When I learned to drive, horn use was treated the same way as tyre inspection and knowing where to refill the screenwash: Something they'd check you knew how to do in case it came up on the test, but not relevant to the actual driving.


[1] He also rides a motorcycle.  I fear.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2019, 04:09:38 pm »
It can be dangerous for me to just jam on the brakes or indeed sharply alter course; there might be someone behind me who'll come crashing in to me. This has happened when a pedestrian wandered across in front of me from behind a big tree, on a segregated cycleway in the rain, I braked as safely as I could and someone behind me came plowing into me saying 'sorry sorry sorry' (I think their rim brakes weren't the best...).

There is no right answer to this shit except scanning the road ahead for possible sleepwalkers and whistling or ringing a bell.

Occupational hazard of riding a recumbent, as you can out-brake any DF bike by default.  It's something I have to be aware of when cycling in That London, as the lycra commuter types are prone to sit in my blind spot and then be surprised when I stop for traffic lights.

The solution as you say is anticipation - allow yourself time to be able to react smoothly.  It mostly works.  Given the choice, I'll take the risk of being hit from behind over not quite managing to stop for the lemming though - deal with the part of the situation that you control and all that.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...