Author Topic: Pedestrian on the phone  (Read 5241 times)

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2019, 04:12:53 pm »
Sadly, a significant minority of people seem to think people should be somehow 'punished' for breaking their perceived 'rules'. A good example is the punishment pass or blast of the horn that I'm sure every cyclist is familiar with. I'm quite sure none of us like it (even if we justified it by making a mistake). I'm not sure why some cyclists think pedestrians like being treated in the same way. Or simply being 'told' our journey is somehow more important and they shouldn't be in the way, delaying our very important day.

Of course, you have the play the risks. I make a reasonable pace through the tide of pedestrians that a morning emits from London Bridge Station. I don't ding them or give them aggro. Some cyclists will speed by, zipping between them, occasionally dinging and more rarely shouting. I figure 99.9% of the time they're not going to hit anyone, but equally do we like being passed closely by cars (so again, do you think pedestrians like it any the more?). All the same, it leaves less of a margin if someone does something unpredictable like stop to pick up a dropped phone.

The irony, of course, is that generally I'll arrive behind them a few seconds later at the lights (if they bother to stop, of course).
!nataS pihsroW

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2019, 04:17:09 pm »
The irony, of course, is that generally I'll arrive behind them a few seconds later at the lights (if they bother to stop, of course).

Which reminds me, we haven't had a FNRttS for ages.  The silly commuter race[1] at the end is always good for a giggle.


[1] Once past Ealing Broadway, watch for a red-light-jumping cyclist (it doesn't usually take long).  Proceed to race them down the Uxbridge Road, while rigorously obeying all traffic laws.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2019, 04:24:28 pm »
Oh, and when they overtake you at each light and then studiously get in your way. Death by weasel for the lot of them.

(Also the ones that grind past you and then the moment they've done so, run out of energy and slow to a crawl right in front, meaning you have go around them, so they'll overtake and then exhaust themselves again. Just ride at a constant bloody speed.)

Hmm, I think I'll take CS7 home. If there's one good thing, it concentrates the mind on the sorts of suitable punishments that will await these individuals when I get a management level role in Hell.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2019, 04:38:40 pm »
Oh, and when they overtake you at each light and then studiously get in your way. Death by weasel for the lot of them.

(Also the ones that grind past you and then the moment they've done so, run out of energy and slow to a crawl right in front, meaning you have go around them, so they'll overtake and then exhaust themselves again. Just ride at a constant bloody speed.)

Hmm, I think I'll take CS7 home. If there's one good thing, it concentrates the mind on the sorts of suitable punishments that will await these individuals when I get a management level role in Hell.
My bold.
That's the same as a clarinet (as taught by Mrs.Badcrumble), according to Eddie Izzard, if I remember correctly.

Part of my commute is along the Thames Path through Canary Wharf, where I'm pretty sure The Highway Code doesn't apply as most (if not all) of CW is privately owned.
There are signs advising cyclists to ride on the right (closest to the river, when heading south).
On occasion I have been told off by a ped for not doing so.
It must be a very special day for them, because they've managed to tell off a person riding a bicycle who was not doing as the sign was telling them to do.
I sincerely hope that they give themselves a big hug when they get home, and congratulate themselves on having had the most fruitful of days.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2019, 04:43:50 pm »
Oh, and when they overtake you at each light and then studiously get in your way. Death by weasel for the lot of them.

(Also the ones that grind past you and then the moment they've done so, run out of energy and slow to a crawl right in front, meaning you have go around them, so they'll overtake and then exhaust themselves again. Just ride at a constant bloody speed.)

Hmm, I think I'll take CS7 home. If there's one good thing, it concentrates the mind on the sorts of suitable punishments that will await these individuals when I get a management level role in Hell.


Don't ever go lanes-swimming for exercise.  This sort of thing is almost de rigeur.  :facepalm:
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

rower40

  • Not my boat. Now sold.
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2019, 09:01:03 pm »
I really don't understand people whose reaction to a developing hazard is to reach for the horn, rather than the brakes. 
Train drivers excepted...
Be Naughty; save Santa a trip

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2019, 09:42:17 pm »
I really don't understand people whose reaction to a developing hazard is to reach for the horn, rather than the brakes. 
Train drivers excepted...

GPWM.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2019, 09:43:20 pm »
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2019, 09:45:03 pm »
Good Point Well Made.
Rust never sleeps

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2019, 09:46:14 pm »
Good Point Well Made.

How the fsck did I not know that? Right, bed time. I'm clearly not with it.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2019, 10:15:14 pm »
Sorry, a person on the phone stepping out on the street and the cyclist is to blame?. Utter nonsense.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2019, 10:19:10 pm »
Sorry, a person on the phone stepping out on the street and the cyclist is to blame?. Utter nonsense.


The judge gave 50-50 liability - so equal blame. As has been commented- cyclist had time to blast their air-horn - so it’s not black and white this one - imnsho
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

yorkie

  • On top of the Galibier
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2019, 10:22:29 pm »
I really don't understand people whose reaction to a developing hazard is to reach for the horn, rather than the brakes. 
Train drivers excepted...

Well, once the train driver has pushed the brake lever to full emergency application they've nothing else to do until the train stops, so they may as well twiddle the horn lever in the hope that the person(s) in the way move in time.

(Obviously, if the obstruction is a big one (e.g. another train, like at Southall) the driver is better off heading for an area behind the crumple zone PDQ.)
Born to ride my bike, forced to work! ;)

British Cycling Regional Track Commissaire
British Cycling Regional Circuit Commissaire

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2019, 11:07:47 pm »
Sorry, a person on the phone stepping out on the street and the cyclist is to blame?. Utter nonsense.


The judge gave 50-50 liability - so equal blame. As has been commented- cyclist had time to blast their air-horn - so it’s not black and white this one - imnsho

If the trigger to the airhorn is conveniently located, I'm quite sure that I would be able to both brake and activate the horn at the same time.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2019, 11:16:29 pm »
Sorry, a person on the phone stepping out on the street and the cyclist is to blame?. Utter nonsense.

Yeah, just like a car running over a kid playing football.

F'ing stupid kid. Should be corralled up in a play park so the cars can do what they like.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2019, 11:19:32 pm »
You ride down a road where there are pedestrians; pedestrians that need to get from one side of the road to another and you don't anticipate they'll do that? You are a runt beginning with a c.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

fd3

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2019, 11:47:56 pm »
Sorry, a person on the phone stepping out on the street and the cyclist is to blame?. Utter nonsense.

Yeah, just like a car running over a kid playing football.
Typically though the motorist would not be charged (but in the rare occasion that it's a cyclist...).

Agree that ideally people should drive/cycle to the conditions and pedestrians should not throw themselves blindly into the road. Not sure that's the world we live in though, or that it's a fair&consistent standard to hold people to.
[/I could be wrong]

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2019, 12:22:00 am »
Sorry, a person on the phone stepping out on the street and the cyclist is to blame?. Utter nonsense.

Yeah, just like a car running over a kid playing football.

F'ing stupid kid. Should be corralled up in a play park so the cars can do what they like.

Oh yeah, totally the same thing.  :thumbsup:

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2019, 07:24:50 am »
My mum was the pedestrian when she was hit crossing the road 30+ years ago. No crossing at the time (there is now) and no mobile phone. Speed limit 40 at the time (30 now).

Lots of broken bones. She was told she had no claim and that she was lucky not to be claimed against.

Maybe things have improved for pedestrians, or maybe the law favours drivers over cyclists and pedestrians.
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2019, 08:25:58 am »
Two things going on here.

First there's the perceived injustice where cyclists are treated differently by the courts, both as accused and victims. But, unless you can show this particular judge is guilty of that, all you are left with is this case which shows no particular bias.

In fact all it has is common sense. Both are to blame but the cyclist, in the higher hierarchy of transport responsibility, has a duty of care they failed to exercise.

Anyone who commutes in London will immediately jump to the same conclusion about the cyclist, hearing that he has an air horn to deploy in his war against those pesky pedestrians.

To answer the OP question

Quote
I wonder if this standard of care applies when I am driving a car and a pedestrian steps out in front  of me while looking at their phone?

Well, yes. Unquestionably.

If they step out without allowing reasonable (!!) time to react, then it isn't your fault. If they step out and you carry on driving without braking just sounding your horn, yes, that's your fault. And you know what? I'd truly expect any court verdict to reflect that.

I am glad you didn't ask about cyclist vs motorist interaction, as that court outcome is liable to be less satisfactory, but hey ho. See point 1.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2019, 08:58:02 am »
Maybe things have improved for pedestrians, or maybe the law favours drivers over cyclists and pedestrians.

All judges and jurists drive a car. How many ride a bike? Scarcely few, and it shows in the court rulings.
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citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2019, 09:26:11 am »
Anyone who commutes in London will immediately jump to the same conclusion about the cyclist, hearing that he has an air horn to deploy in his war against those pesky pedestrians.

Quite. Though I think Jurek put it more succinctly.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2019, 09:29:19 am »
Two things going on here.

First there's the perceived injustice where cyclists are treated differently by the courts, both as accused and victims. But, unless you can show this particular judge is guilty of that, all you are left with is this case which shows no particular bias.

In fact all it has is common sense. Both are to blame but the cyclist, in the higher hierarchy of transport responsibility, has a duty of care they failed to exercise.

Anyone who commutes in London will immediately jump to the same conclusion about the cyclist, hearing that he has an air horn to deploy in his war against those pesky pedestrians.

To answer the OP question

Quote
I wonder if this standard of care applies when I am driving a car and a pedestrian steps out in front  of me while looking at their phone?

Well, yes. Unquestionably.

If they step out without allowing reasonable (!!) time to react, then it isn't your fault. If they step out and you carry on driving without braking just sounding your horn, yes, that's your fault. And you know what? I'd truly expect any court verdict to reflect that.

I am glad you didn't ask about cyclist vs motorist interaction, as that court outcome is liable to be less satisfactory, but hey ho. See point 1.

I think you're correct to say the judge might not be biased, in a situation like this there seem a duty of care inherent to the cyclist to the pedestrian, and a 50:50 split of blame seemed not unreasonable. He should have slowed down, she should have looked. Had either party done that, it would have been a non-event and they'd both have saved themselves a trip to A&E.

Sadly, I've not seen evidence that drivers are generally held up in the same way by courts (which is not the same to say as it doesn't exist) and I'm minded that drivers should carry a significantly higher duty-of-care, if not absolute, to other road users. They're operating tonnes of machinery (and quite often outside the bounds of the law).

That doesn't detract from the fact that too many cyclists in London ride like twunts. Too fast, and too aggressively. Very important people having very important days of course. I expect they're on their way to a Range Rover and high blood pressure. They have to start somewhere.
!nataS pihsroW

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2019, 09:37:37 am »
That doesn't detract from the fact that too many cyclists in London ride like twunts. Too fast, and too aggressively. Very important people having very important days of course. I expect they're on their way to a Range Rover and high blood pressure. They have to start somewhere.

I use CS3 along the Embankment most days. It's alarming how many cyclists coming the other way will come over to my side of the path to overtake slower cyclists, leading to some very near misses. Some people need to learn that the flip side of having all this lovely cycling infrastructure is that greater numbers of cyclists means accepting that sometimes you will be stuck in bike traffic - and understand that as with driving a car, you are part of that traffic.

Mind you, I've yet to observe an actual collision, and personally will always take evasive action rather than run into another cyclist to prove a stupid point.

Re: Pedestrian on the phone
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2019, 10:16:10 am »
That doesn't detract from the fact that too many cyclists in London ride like twunts. Too fast, and too aggressively. Very important people having very important days of course. I expect they're on their way to a Range Rover and high blood pressure. They have to start somewhere.

I use CS3 along the Embankment most days. It's alarming how many cyclists coming the other way will come over to my side of the path to overtake slower cyclists, leading to some very near misses. Some people need to learn that the flip side of having all this lovely cycling infrastructure is that greater numbers of cyclists means accepting that sometimes you will be stuck in bike traffic - and understand that as with driving a car, you are part of that traffic.

Mind you, I've yet to observe an actual collision, and personally will always take evasive action rather than run into another cyclist to prove a stupid point.

I've been near two pile ups, one resulting in hospitalisation, the worst stretch is west of Southwark Bridge IMO, although the variance in width around London Bridge can lead to fun, too.

Simple truth is that, much though we would prefer it otherwise, some bike riders are cunts as much as some drivers are, too. There are really two differences between cars and bikes. First, poor car behaviour is normalised and widely accepted. That can change, as it has done with drink driving but don't expect too much in the short term. Secondly, bad bike behaviour often happens in closer proximity to pedestrians. It's one thing for a car to shoot a red light, it's another for them to push through a pedestrian crossing inches away from a pedestrian (although it does happen)

Fortunately, the poor drivers and cyclists are in a minority, but the effect of their actions is disproportionate.