Author Topic: +17 degree stem  (Read 1124 times)

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
+17 degree stem
« on: June 28, 2019, 05:05:59 pm »
Currently on my Audax bike (a cheap and cheerful 2014 Pinnacle Dolomite 2) I have a 100mm +6 degree stem. (This is in place of the 120mm +6 degree stem it came with).  Still feel I have too much weight on hands, and tend to get a crick in the back of the neck.  Plus the bike feels ever so slightly too long in the top tube (it's an XL frame, effective top tube of 590mm)

So I'm thinking of a 100mm, +17 degree stem? Can't quite stretch to a bike fit... I did try a 110mm +35 degree stem, however I felt that was too sit up and beg, with less weight over the front wheel... 

Thoughts?   

Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2019, 05:15:41 pm »
I would suggest trying a shorter stem, if you have not tried one before.

cheers

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2019, 05:25:48 pm »
I would suggest trying a shorter stem, if you have not tried one before.

cheers

I have changed from the stock 120mm stem, to a 100mm stem. Not sure a 90mm stem would be too short.


Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2019, 07:17:59 pm »
What is your saddle position like?  To take weight off your hands I'd suggest moving it back.  Perhaps move it back 10 mm and try the 90 mm stem at the same time.

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2019, 09:20:35 pm »
What is your saddle position like?  To take weight off your hands I'd suggest moving it back.  Perhaps move it back 10 mm and try the 90 mm stem at the same time.

My MTB has a 90mm stem, so I may try swapping that over with the 100mm one on the pinnacle, as well as moving the saddle back... Will certainly try moving the saddle back first though.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2019, 09:24:53 pm »
What is your saddle position like?  To take weight off your hands I'd suggest moving it back.  Perhaps move it back 10 mm and try the 90 mm stem at the same time.

My MTB has a 90mm stem, so I may try swapping that over with the 100mm one on the pinnacle, as well as moving the saddle back... Will certainly try moving the saddle back first though.

To start with fettle one thing at a time, don't move the saddle and replace the stem in the same move, do one, then do the other, so you can track what change has what effect.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2019, 09:39:46 pm »
Good advice from QG there, I reckon. You do want to be able to say any effect was due to one particular alteration.
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2019, 09:50:11 pm »
Anyhoo, a quick fettle before tomorrow's bun run with the cycling club. The saddle was as far forward as it could go. So I've moved it rearwards 10mm. Not sure if this means my knee is still over the pedal spindle (or even if KOPS is really a good thing to have or not).  Will leave the 100mm stem as it is, and see how I get on with the saddle moved back 10mm. I did mark the original position with some leccy tape...

Of course, the ideal solution would be to go for a bike fit, although most of the places I've looked at seem to be more race orientated, rather than recreational bike fit...  Anyway, I may well be changing the bike next year, so if I can make it do for just now, by playing with saddle fore/aft and perhaps changing a stem, then I can always get a bike fit when I buy a replacement bike next year...


Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2019, 11:07:52 pm »
Anyhoo, a quick fettle before tomorrow's bun run with the cycling club. The saddle was as far forward as it could go. So I've moved it rearwards 10mm. Not sure if this means my knee is still over the pedal spindle (or even if KOPS is really a good thing to have or not).  Will leave the 100mm stem as it is, and see how I get on with the saddle moved back 10mm. I did mark the original position with some leccy tape...

Of course, the ideal solution would be to go for a bike fit, although most of the places I've looked at seem to be more race orientated, rather than recreational bike fit...  Anyway, I may well be changing the bike next year, so if I can make it do for just now, by playing with saddle fore/aft and perhaps changing a stem, then I can always get a bike fit when I buy a replacement bike next year...

The saddle is as far forward as it will go?  Is that on a setback or an inline seatpost?  If your saddle is way forward, your stem is short and you're still having problems, it sounds like your frame is too big. 

Anyway, having a forward saddle will mean more weight on your hands, and you'll have to bear that weight on them however high the bars are because you're effectively always falling forwards off the saddle. 

Oh, and KOPS is bunk.

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2019, 07:26:44 am »
Anyhoo, a quick fettle before tomorrow's bun run with the cycling club. The saddle was as far forward as it could go. So I've moved it rearwards 10mm. Not sure if this means my knee is still over the pedal spindle (or even if KOPS is really a good thing to have or not).  Will leave the 100mm stem as it is, and see how I get on with the saddle moved back 10mm. I did mark the original position with some leccy tape...

Of course, the ideal solution would be to go for a bike fit, although most of the places I've looked at seem to be more race orientated, rather than recreational bike fit...  Anyway, I may well be changing the bike next year, so if I can make it do for just now, by playing with saddle fore/aft and perhaps changing a stem, then I can always get a bike fit when I buy a replacement bike next year...

The saddle is as far forward as it will go?  Is that on a setback or an inline seatpost?  If your saddle is way forward, your stem is short and you're still having problems, it sounds like your frame is too big. 

Anyway, having a forward saddle will mean more weight on your hands, and you'll have to bear that weight on them however high the bars are because you're effectively always falling forwards off the saddle. 

Oh, and KOPS is bunk.

I do suspect that the bike is a size to big. Probably would have been better on a large than an XL. It was an end of season sale online purchase at Evans a few years ago. Replacement bike will certainly be bought in person, through lbs, hopefully via cycle to work scheme..

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2019, 09:01:57 am »
IIRC you have a touring bike as well?

I found the best way to get a decent set up for length was to measure the distance from the tip of my saddle to the bars, and then add on the length from the back of the bars to the end of the sti hood. If I make those about the same then regardless of top tube length the bike feels ok. Maybe you could compare the values for your bikes?

Don't worry too much about short stems. My drop bar converted hybrid used a 70mm-17o stem for a while and it felt twitchy, but only for the first 30 seconds or so, then felt normal.

Also, have you considered the angle of the bars? Anything too aggressive I find encourages hand discomfort IME



Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2019, 01:02:23 pm »
Bun run today with the club. Certainly less weight on the hands with the saddle moved back 10mm. Knees felt different, wouldn't say uncomfortable, but certainly different. Probably just due to the change in saddle position. No pain though. Have titled the bars up a fraction so the hoods are horizontal. Previously they were angled down slightly. Will see how that feels tomorrow.

Still think a 90mm stem may just be what's needed - if i look down at the front hub, the bars are about 10mm in front...

McShroom, I do have a Touring bike as well, however it has a shorter head tube, 190mm on the Dawes Horizon 58cm, 200 on the XL Pinnacle. Effective top tube is 592 on the Dawes and 595 on the Pinnacle.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2019, 07:39:49 pm »
Bun run today with the club. Certainly less weight on the hands with the saddle moved back 10mm. Knees felt different, wouldn't say uncomfortable, but certainly different. Probably just due to the change in saddle position. No pain though. Have titled the bars up a fraction so the hoods are horizontal. Previously they were angled down slightly. Will see how that feels tomorrow.

Moving the saddle back 10mm, you may want to drop the saddle down 1-2mm, as the distance from hip joint to pedal will be slightly different now. Some people claim to be able to notice such small differences in saddle height, some don't. YMMV.

Quote
Still think a 90mm stem may just be what's needed - if i look down at the front hub, the bars are about 10mm in front...

McShroom, I do have a Touring bike as well, however it has a shorter head tube, 190mm on the Dawes Horizon 58cm, 200 on the XL Pinnacle. Effective top tube is 592 on the Dawes and 595 on the Pinnacle.

Stems are pretty cheap, so worth trying a selection of sizes. Angling the hoods up sounds sensible too.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2019, 08:10:08 pm »

Don't worry too much about short stems. My drop bar converted hybrid used a 70mm-17o stem for a while and it felt twitchy, but only for the first 30 seconds or so, then felt normal.


I think this depends on the bike's geometry. I used to ride a 56cm road bike (too big really - I'm only 5'7") with an 80mm stem, and it was very twitchy - but that bike was designed for a 110mm stem. My winter bike (a Pinnacle Arkose in medium) also has an 80mm stem but no twitchiness, presumably because it's designed to work with that stem (it's stock).

Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2019, 07:42:19 pm »
After a year of riding my new audax bike I was still feeling too much pressure on the bars. stem was at the top of the steerer so couldn't raise it. 100mm 10 degree stem. swapped it for a 90mm 17 degree stem and it's made all the difference.  About 15mm higher and 10mm closer. The 600 I did after swapping was far better than the 400 just before. 
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2019, 07:47:31 pm »
After a year of riding my new audax bike I was still feeling too much pressure on the bars. stem was at the top of the steerer so couldn't raise it. 100mm 10 degree stem. swapped it for a 90mm 17 degree stem and it's made all the difference.  About 15mm higher and 10mm closer. The 600 I did after swapping was far better than the 400 just before.

What's your current saddle to handlebar drop? Mine is currently 75mm from the top of the saddle to the centre of the bars...

Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2019, 05:40:06 pm »
After a year of riding my new audax bike I was still feeling too much pressure on the bars. stem was at the top of the steerer so couldn't raise it. 100mm 10 degree stem. swapped it for a 90mm 17 degree stem and it's made all the difference.  About 15mm higher and 10mm closer. The 600 I did after swapping was far better than the 400 just before.

What's your current saddle to handlebar drop? Mine is currently 75mm from the top of the saddle to the centre of the bars...

The center line of the bars is 25mm above the top of the saddle. 
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2019, 06:04:35 pm »
After a year of riding my new audax bike I was still feeling too much pressure on the bars. stem was at the top of the steerer so couldn't raise it. 100mm 10 degree stem. swapped it for a 90mm 17 degree stem and it's made all the difference.  About 15mm higher and 10mm closer. The 600 I did after swapping was far better than the 400 just before.

What's your current saddle to handlebar drop? Mine is currently 75mm from the top of the saddle to the centre of the bars...

The center line of the bars is 25mm above the top of the saddle.

I think that'd probably be too high for me, lol. I think my plan is to swap stems with the MTB (which has a 90mm 6 degree rise stem) and take it from there. Interestingly, the same size Pinnacle Arkose adventure road bike has a similar length effective top tube, and a 90mm stem as standard.

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2019, 12:22:30 pm »
Anyway following on from my emergency open abdomen bowel surgery on Tuesday (still in hospital!), I think that once I get back on the bike (in a few months time!) I'll certainly be looking for a more upright position...

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2019, 05:28:09 pm »
Just to update this thread.
I've since fitted a 110mm +17 degree stem (I think I should have went with a 100mm +17 degree stem instead).  A heck of a lot more comfortable compared to the 100mm+6 degree stem. 

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: +17 degree stem
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2019, 05:33:43 pm »
Just to update this thread.
I've since fitted a 110mm +17 degree stem (I think I should have went with a 100mm +17 degree stem instead).  A heck of a lot more comfortable compared to the 100mm+6 degree stem.

http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php
have a play with this. its fun.