Author Topic: LEJOGLE 2020  (Read 696 times)

DaT

LEJOGLE 2020
« on: July 08, 2019, 06:35:15 pm »
I started a thread a month or so ago asking about training and was advised that without a goal you can't have targeted training.

My goal is a fixed wheel 7 day LEJOGLE, around 370k a day. I feel right now I could do 300k a day for a week but with training I hope this would be achievable. My Dad and Step-mum has agreed to support with my Step-mum being a trained sports massage therapist in a former life.

Can anyone point to an endurance coach that could build me a training plan as I have no knowledge of sport science?

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2019, 06:48:52 pm »

No idea personally, but James Hayden was coached by:

Ric Stern
Tel: 07734 105960
Email: ric@rstsport.com
www.rstsport.com

and it seemed to do him quite nicely...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

DaT

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2019, 06:54:10 pm »
I didn't think coaching would be that expensive...

Maybe I need to do some reading and make a training plan myself. The hardest part would be working in my commuting that is 4x 2*10mile rides per week.

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2019, 07:16:54 pm »
7 X 370km will not enable you to complete a LEJOGLE unless you have found some amazing short cut. You would be looking at about 9 days.

What is your endurance background so far?

DaT

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2019, 08:22:59 pm »
You'er right. It's 400k a day. I did a 415k earlier this year in 19hrs with an extra long stop at a control due to company struggling. I'd need to get that down to 18hrs to get some sleep in each night. My strong point is dealing well with lack of sleep.

My long distance riding has been 200-300k riding with tours that have 200k+ most days. I did LEJOG a few years ago in 7 days but my company (Dad and step mum) was the limiting factor. I have completed my SR this year. I'm 30 and want to push myself next year and am willing to put in hard training.

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 06:26:56 am »
A couple of thoughts.

Don't expect to do what you can do for one day for a series of days: rule of thumb is that doing xxx km in a day means you can probably do around 75% of that amount per day for successive days.  A rider who can do 400km for successive days would need to be able to do, say 550km on the first day.  If 420km is your maximum for a single day, you might manage 320km per day on an ongoing basis.  Quite a lot of people who have done 400s in well under 19 hours have not been able to do more than 300km per day for a couple of weeks (me included).

For training, you would need to do something along the lines of lots of steady base miles + a long ride at the weekend + two interval sessions per week.  Look at Trainerroad, Zwift, etc, for a more palatable way to package it.  But you need to be able to find a way to fit it in with your commuting.  I can only think of two or three people on this forum who could do/ have done >400km for multiple days.  One of them is Wheels of Fire, who - when talking about his LEJoG record - said that the core of his training was 45 miles per day commuting, plus two 2-hour turbo sessions at very high wattages, per week. 

You should include some speed work as you need to be as fast as possible to get time to sleep, eat, etc. 

If you can do the kind of daily distances you are targeting it would be a shame not to test yourself competitively and do some long time trials: 100miles, 12 and 24 hours.  They would be excellent training rides and allow you to compare yourself to top riders, and get some great advice.  And / or some ultra-races: 400km per day would put you amongst the favourites for the TCR.

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 09:24:03 am »
Coaching seems expensive because ultimately you are buying time from a highly competent person. The cheapest plan at RST is £60 per month, but if that takes the coach an hour to deliver, the rate seems reasonable. The ones that I think are profit making are where there is a cookie cutter plan that is handed out to everyone, but still costs real money.
On the other end of the scale is something like Trainer Road, Sufferfest, Zwift plans etc. They are closer to £10pm, and they offer cookie cutter plans that are based on FTP, but that you can tailor yourself to the demands of your event and to fit in with your lifestyle. I think turbo training from these sorts of plans is likely to work best for time crunched riders, and it might be hard to mix them with your commute, but it might be worth a go. I use Trainer Road, and have free months to give away, so if you would like a referral just PM me your name and email address and I'll send it over. Trainer Road has the concept of "outside workouts" so you can keep to your plan and ride outside, and maybe they will work for the more consistent efforts (commutes? depends on traffic), but I completely trashed myself doing a super hard one outside last week!

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 10:41:51 am »
any training that raises your ftp will be suitable, meaning that you can ride at sustainable pace in zone1 or low zone2 for days, burning mostly fat. while there is no need to do very long rides for fitness purposes (they generate lots of fatigue, but little fitness gains), it is still handy to test every now and then if your body can handle the position for days, e.g. any back pain, neck pain, knee pain, hand numbness etc.
i'd schedule a decreasing* daily distances as you will get tired and the same 400 will feel like 500 two days in.

*something like 460, 440.....340

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 11:09:35 am »

For training, you would need to do something along the lines of lots of steady base miles + a long ride at the weekend + two interval sessions per week.  Look at Trainerroad, Zwift, etc, for a more palatable way to package it.  But you need to be able to find a way to fit it in with your commuting.  I can only think of two or three people on this forum who could do/ have done >400km for multiple days.  One of them is Wheels of Fire, who - when talking about his LEJoG record - said that the core of his training was 45 miles per day commuting, plus two 2-hour turbo sessions at very high wattages, per week. 

If you can do >400km a day, and sustain it for 16 days, you could give Ian Walker a challenge for the Europe top to bottom record he's just set.

I don't know if Ian is a forumite, and thus counted in your list.

I'm guessing Hippy is one of them too ?

Quote
You should include some speed work as you need to be as fast as possible to get time to sleep, eat, etc. 

If you can do the kind of daily distances you are targeting it would be a shame not to test yourself competitively and do some long time trials: 100miles, 12 and 24 hours.  They would be excellent training rides and allow you to compare yourself to top riders, and get some great advice.  And / or some ultra-races: 400km per day would put you amongst the favourites for the TCR.

But not enough to win the mens RatN. That would require about 470 km a day for 4 days.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

DaT

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 04:28:26 pm »
Thanks everyone for the advise.

What I may look into is two turbo session* a week, a long ride once a week and on my way home do 30 miles instead of 10. I work on a rolling 2 week rota so it would be. If anyone sees anything stupid please say.

Rest
20mile + turbo
40mile
Rest
40mile
20mile + turbo
40mile
Rest
40mile
40mile
Turbo
40mile
Rest
Turbo
100+ ride

When should I start training with the ride being in June?

* I'm looking into smart rollers as it would be easier to attach my fixed bike (120mm). Would anyone advise against this and have a comparable tubrobthat they would advise instead?

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2019, 04:46:58 pm »
I can ride my Fixie (120mm OLN) on the turbo with suitably shaped tracknuts. Wheel-on trainers seem to have a bad rep at the moment though. If you can ride rollers then that's another option.

On your plan, depending on what your turbo sessions are, the 40mile days afterwards might be a bit hard. I'm assuming you'll be doing long threshold efforts, but obviously how you ride the day after depends on the session.

DaT

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2019, 04:59:36 pm »
The 40 miles the next day wouldn't be fast. If it's a waste of time I could always do 20miles. I could also push the turbo session to days before a rest day.

Rollers aren't an issue. I'm looking at elite Nero rollers. I'll also grab a stages power meter as I can get the 7710 gen 2 for £250.

DaT

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2019, 08:41:28 am »
What are people's opinion on squats/dead lifts a few times a week?

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2019, 08:48:07 am »
What are people's opinion on squats/dead lifts a few times a week?

Divided.   I do zero work with weights.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2019, 08:52:40 am »
What are people's opinion on squats/dead lifts a few times a week?

I do a 1 hour circuit training session each week, this often involves squats, but has only once included dead lifts. The sessions mostly concentrate on core work. I think it helps, but I've not done an RCT, so it may be placebo.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2019, 09:27:56 am »
Weights are frequently recommended for those over 40 to fight against muscle wastage (but I don't do them). That doesn't apply if you are younger.


Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2019, 09:30:37 am »

* I'm looking into smart rollers as it would be easier to attach my fixed bike (120mm). Would anyone advise against this and have a comparable tubrobthat they would advise instead?

Any turbo would be better than rollers (for this purpose) as you don't want to have to waste energy thinking about staying upright.
I've got an entry level Tacx smart turbo.  I learned its limitations.  If I was buying another one now I'd get the Wahoo Kickr Core.

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2019, 09:33:19 am »

But not enough to win the mens RatN. That would require about 470 km a day for 4 days.

J

I bet he didn't do 470 a day for 4 days. 
I've not looked but I would expect someone to do that distance by doing, say, 550 on day 1, maybe 470 on day 2, then 420 a day.  Increase the number of days and that would soon tumble below 400. 

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2019, 09:35:06 am »

I do a 1 hour circuit training session each week, this often involves squats, but has only once included dead lifts. The sessions mostly concentrate on core work. I think it helps, but I've not done an RCT, so it may be placebo.

J

Probably recommended by your multi-talented physio....?
Maybe he is entirely a placebo!

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2019, 09:52:29 am »
I'm about to start doing a proper set of core work (and upper body work), including deadlifts. The reason is mainly injury prevention and general robustness. I doubt it will improve my performance on the bike directly, but if it means I miss fewer sessions it will be worth it.
The Trainer Road crew have published a blog with what they consider to be a good minimum standard of strength for different categories of cyclist. I can do some of the level 2 already, but I'm horribly deficient in others (I can't do a single pull-up for example)
https://blog.trainerroad.com/coach-chads-strength-training-recommendations-for-cyclists/

DaT

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2019, 11:37:17 am »

* I'm looking into smart rollers as it would be easier to attach my fixed bike (120mm). Would anyone advise against this and have a comparable tubrobthat they would advise instead?

Any turbo would be better than rollers (for this purpose) as you don't want to have to waste energy thinking about staying upright.
I've got an entry level Tacx smart turbo.  I learned its limitations.  If I was buying another one now I'd get the Wahoo Kickr Core.
The wahoo kicker core isn't comparable with a fixed bike. I own two fixed bikes and a fatbike. I could always pick up a cheap crap bike for the turbo.

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2019, 02:53:36 pm »
Sorry - didn't think of that.  I guess you need a wheel on turbo. 
In which case they are all much of a muchness.  DC Rainmaker is the best source of reviews, etc.

Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2019, 05:41:24 pm »
I'm looking into smart rollers as it would be easier to attach my fixed bike (120mm). Would anyone advise against this and have a comparable tubrobthat they would advise instead?
All of my riding including turbo training is on fixed. I previously had a Tacx t1810 and now a Kurt Kinetic Rock and Roll, both of which fit 120mm rear spacing without requiring any extra hardware etc. Both trainers are compatible with TrainerRoad using virtual power. The Kurt Kinetic can also be bought (or upgraded later) with various smart options. Kurt Kinetic trainers are pretty expensive to buy new but I got mine from eBay for £60 - I added their inride “power meter” which is basically a virtual power sensor that can be calibrated, and I’m very happy with the setup - it works well with TrainerRoad.


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2019, 03:38:30 pm »
I bet he didn't do 470 a day for 4 days. 
I've not looked but I would expect someone to do that distance by doing, say, 550 on day 1, maybe 470 on day 2, then 420 a day.  Increase the number of days and that would soon tumble below 400.

That's the power of averages. Completing 1900km in 4 days, requires an average of 450km per day. If you do that as 900km, then 2 rest days, then another 900km, it's still an average of 450km a day.

Tho you are correct that, 4 days of the same distance is unlikely, and he did probably do a big chunk on day 1. I've not checked his strava to be sure.


I do a 1 hour circuit training session each week, this often involves squats, but has only once included dead lifts. The sessions mostly concentrate on core work. I think it helps, but I've not done an RCT, so it may be placebo.

J

Probably recommended by your multi-talented physio....?
Maybe he is entirely a placebo!

I actually sort out ways to improve my core strength, as a number of sources suggested that improving core strength can improve ones cycling. It just happens that the circuit training sessions are run at the same organisation as my physio. One of the benefits of having a single organisation to deal with for keeping me from falling apart. I did however decline their nutritionist services.

I appreciate that it may seem weird for you and others to think of getting anything other than physiotherapy services from a physiotherapist company, but over here because of the insurance system, many a physio company provides a lot of services in addition to basic physio. Also because it's competitive, various companies spring up specialising in various areas, so the company that I deal with specialises in athletes, with a number of triathletes making up a sizeable chunk of their customer base...

Anyway, this is off topic.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: LEJOGLE 2020
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2019, 04:35:22 pm »
I don't quite follow the numbers being proposed in this thread

Initially, it was 370km a day for 7 days (?) which is 2590km

The shortest route for lejog is 1390km, 1500km seems like a reasonable guess when avoiding some of the crazy A roads or diverting to nice hotels

Oh i see, you mean le jog and then back to le

I get it.  400km a day makes sense.   

I'm going to be annoying now and suggest you take 8 days instead of 7 and ride a bike with gears


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