Author Topic: A new Mercian (mine) is born  (Read 5304 times)

DaT

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #125 on: September 16, 2019, 08:50:01 am »
Did the bike fitter install it above minimum insertion line? With that and the saddle I'd be really questioning this fitter...

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #126 on: September 16, 2019, 12:11:31 pm »
Did the bike fitter install it above minimum insertion line? With that and the saddle I'd be really questioning this fitter...

Yes. I'm guessing he's probably not that familiar with quill stems, though, and the way Nitto indicate the max insertion point is not the most clear.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #127 on: September 16, 2019, 12:24:48 pm »
Modern fashion seems to be to ride on the drops (shallow for modern fashion) with locked elbows.

Modern ideas about handlebar height are pretty loopy IMHO, and possibly arise from the (over) use of the hoods as the default riding position.

Kids today, always riding on the drops while always riding on the hoods.

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #128 on: September 16, 2019, 12:28:42 pm »
Modern fashion seems to be to ride on the drops (shallow for modern fashion) with locked elbows.

Modern ideas about handlebar height are pretty loopy IMHO, and possibly arise from the (over) use of the hoods as the default riding position.

Kids today, always riding on the drops while always riding on the hoods.

I see much riding on the hoods (like 95% of the time), not much on the drops
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #129 on: September 16, 2019, 12:52:05 pm »
Modern fashion seems to be to ride on the drops (shallow for modern fashion) with locked elbows.

Modern ideas about handlebar height are pretty loopy IMHO, and possibly arise from the (over) use of the hoods as the default riding position.

Kids today, always riding on the drops while always riding on the hoods.

I blame those Shrodinger bars they brought out recently. Apparently they are the cats whiskers.

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #130 on: September 16, 2019, 01:00:10 pm »
Modern fashion seems to be to ride on the drops (shallow for modern fashion) with locked elbows.

Modern ideas about handlebar height are pretty loopy IMHO, and possibly arise from the (over) use of the hoods as the default riding position.

Kids today, always riding on the drops while always riding on the hoods.

I took tatanab's comment as being in the context of 'when the drops are used' and not implying that the drops are the most favoured position.

cheers

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #131 on: September 16, 2019, 02:34:15 pm »
The min. insertion line on a quill stem is to keep the stem expander (whether cone or wedge) away from the threaded (weaker) section of the steerer. Generally stem manufacturers are quite conservative about this.

A custom frame and fork should have not much thread below the bottom of the headset. If you know that is the case, then sneaking a few extra millimetres height isn’t a problem. If the steerer has an overly-long thread, then the expander can break the fork, even with a buried limit mark.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #132 on: September 16, 2019, 02:52:45 pm »
IanH - I am indeed quite short (172cm / 5'8") with not particularly long legs or arms, so what you've said makes some sense.

I'm hesitant to offer yet another view, but I am 1 cm shorter than you, and with proportionally short legs, and long upper body.
this is all 5 foot 7 and a half of me and my stumpy legs next to a 17in MTB



I have a couple of Mercians, both of them 54cm seat tube, I also have and have had other bikes ranging from 52cm up to 57cm and they all 'fit' although the relative proportion of exposed seatpost and stem, and stem lengths (and bar reach) are different, the contact points are broadly similar between all the bikes, with only minor variations commensurate with their intended use.

Some photos below, purely as a reference point from someone of a similar height and how setups on different sized frames look. I'll make no further comments as I think you need to do some fiddling and testing to work out what's going to work for you position wise.

Singular Osprey - 52cm - my main Audax bike, fits perfectly but aesthetically I think it looks a wee bit small, stem is at max height and looks lower than yours.



Genesis Equilibrium - '52cm' as described by them, but 49cm ST and 53CM TT.
setup as winter trainer/club run bike

*The headtube on this thing is far too long, I cant go any lower with the stem without going for -17deg



Bontrager Road Lite - setup for fastish road rides, listed as 'small' but very similar to the Genesis, 49cm x 53cm but with slightly shorter headtube!



Spa Cycles Ti Audax - 52cm - setup for audax, probably could have bought the 54cm but was worried about headtube being too long.



Condor Pendio - 53cm - setup for fastish road rides when I want to ride old steel in the wet
Again wiht this one I think it's on the verge of looking too small.



Woodrup 54cm - setup for fastish road when I want to ride old steel in the dry



Mercian Classic - 54cm - setup as SS Audax



Mercian KOM - 54(.5) cm - setup as relaxed Audax, note the extended headtube...



Carlton 57cm - setup as commuter


Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #133 on: September 16, 2019, 02:55:33 pm »
The min. insertion line on a quill stem is to keep the stem expander (whether cone or wedge) away from the threaded (weaker) section of the steerer. Generally stem manufacturers are quite conservative about this.

A custom frame should have not much thread below the bottom of the headset. If you know that is the case, then sneaking a few extra millimetres height isn’t a problem. If the steerer has an overly-long thread, then the expander can break the fork, even with a buried limit mark.

Good point, the question is whether the fitter did indeed check where the thread was, in relation to the expander wedge, before setting the height of the stem
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #134 on: September 16, 2019, 08:00:35 pm »
Amedius - your photos would seem to suggest I probably should have been specified for a 54cm frame at least, seems odd that Mercian undersized my frame. Too late to change it now, though, so I'll just have to make the best of it.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #135 on: September 16, 2019, 08:31:19 pm »
Amedius - your photos would seem to suggest I probably should have been specified for a 54cm frame at least, seems odd that Mercian undersized my frame. Too late to change it now, though, so I'll just have to make the best of it.

FWIW I think, looking at your pics, that I could get a lovely fit on your Mercian, but for me I'd be dropping the saddle a fair bit, moving it back a bit more, dropping the bars and moving to a 100mm stem and possibly a more traditional shape bar (not compact), but we're all differnet shapes and different preferences, the important thing is that you get a position you're comfortable with, I personally think you may need to do a little experimenting and also give yourself time to get used to a 'non touring' position on your 'fast' bike, it can take quite a while for the body to adjust and but what feels wrong now may feel much better later.

My reach preference has been getting longer in recent years, with a decent layback on the saddle I now prefer to be more stretched out and lower at the front, in all my pics above the saddle to bar drop doesn't look that big but I spend a good 30-40% of my time in the drops compared to most of my associates who only ever really ride on the hoods.


Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #136 on: September 16, 2019, 08:42:58 pm »
BTW I asked the bike fitters to remind me of their rationale behind the forward saddle tilt, they said "The reason we did it is to relieve the back, as the more nose down, the less bend across the lower back." (I had made them aware I suffer from lower back pain) but he agreed they probably over did it.

I've arranged to see them again this Saturday (for no extra charge) for some further adjustments - less or no saddle tilt, stem below the min insertion point, and then other adjustments following, if necessary.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #137 on: September 16, 2019, 08:49:42 pm »
The reason we did it is to relieve the back, as the more nose down, the less bend across the lower back

hmm, maybe just poor choice of words but you shouldn't really be bending across the lower back, you should be pivoting at the hips.

having the nose too far down can mean you're likely to slide forward and end up pushing back/stabilising with your lower back muscles and in-extremis, when coupled with high bars, arching your back the wrong way to wedge yourself betwixt bars and saddle.

But I haven't seen you on a bike or riding, so don't put too much faith in what I (or anyone who hasn't observed you) says ;-) We are all different and a fitter should know what they're doing with regards to your anatomy.

I really would give yourself some time on the bike though, when I set up a new bike I normally get pretty close on my first go as I know my preferences and measurments*, but I probably spend the next 200-300 miles tweaking, and normally fully fettled and settled with adjustments by 500 miles.

* even when you do there's no accounting for the way your adapt your style to some bikes that means you still need to make adjustments outside of what you expect.

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #138 on: September 19, 2019, 04:51:53 pm »
My Bob Jackson, horizontal top tube, in a smaller size than I really needed, took a while before I bedded in.

I worked on my flexibility at the hips to maintain a flat saddle

My physio asked me to film myself on a turbo.
From the side and the rear.
1.when I was relaxed and in a comfy gear.
And 2. after a tough session when I was knackered and pushing a tougher gear.

And we worked holistically on solutions to help with fatigue and bike fit.
I'm sure you'll get used to the bike and all will be well

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #139 on: September 20, 2019, 07:56:12 am »
My Bob Jackson, horizontal top tube, in a smaller size than I really needed, took a while before I bedded in.

I worked on my flexibility at the hips to maintain a flat saddle

My physio asked me to film myself on a turbo.
From the side and the rear.
1.when I was relaxed and in a comfy gear.
And 2. after a tough session when I was knackered and pushing a tougher gear.

And we worked holistically on solutions to help with fatigue and bike fit.
I'm sure you'll get used to the bike and all will be well

Thanks, hope so! I'm going to give it another longish ride this weekend, as the weather looks to be good.

Over winter I'm hoping that practising excercises given to me by a physio will help with my back/neck/hip flexor flexibility and strength and allow me to ride with less discomfort (this doesn't just apply to my Mercian).
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #140 on: September 20, 2019, 09:52:00 am »
Given the nature of this discussion, it would be interesting to see pictures of you riding the bike, including one maybe with the near foot close to the bottom of the pedal stroke (shows leg extension better). I wouldn't ever advocate bike fitting by photograph, but at least we could see how it's fitting.

Gratuitous picture of my own Mercian, to go with others above. I've posted it before in other threads, but we Mercian owners lose no opportunity ;D


Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #141 on: September 20, 2019, 09:54:11 am »
Given the nature of this discussion, it would be interesting to see pictures of you riding the bike, including one maybe with the near foot close to the bottom of the pedal stroke (shows leg extension better). I wouldn't ever advocate bike fitting by photograph, but at least we could see how it's fitting.


I'll see what I can do, but I don't own a turbo


Gratuitous picture of my own Mercian, to go with others above. I've posted it before in other threads, but we Mercian owners lose no opportunity ;D



Nice tourer,  I like the full Super C kit too :-)
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #142 on: September 20, 2019, 10:40:57 am »
Thanks :-) The bar bag is really old, bought in the late 70s. Everything else is more modern.

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #143 on: September 20, 2019, 11:23:55 am »
Thanks :-) The bar bag is really old, bought in the late 70s. Everything else is more modern.

In the Super C range I have just the rack bag, but use that quite a lot for day outings on my Hewitt Cheviot and really like it.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: A new Mercian (mine) is born
« Reply #144 on: September 20, 2019, 05:43:57 pm »


Quote

I'll see what I can do, but I don't own a turbo


In the age of Zwift you could probably get one for 20p.
I found the turbo a convenient 'contol' situation as I made adjustments and improved my flexibility.