Author Topic: Potential life saving app.  (Read 2400 times)

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2019, 11:02:54 am »
Any modern smartphone can automatically send your location, when you phone up the emergency services. No need for any extra apps or services. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Mobile_Location
That is interesting, and has one very important feature:

Quote
AML automatically turns on Wi-Fi and location services on the handset, collects and computes location data, then sends an SMS to the emergency services containing the caller's location, before turning location services and Wi-Fi off again.[13]
So the user doesn't need to have activated location services, plus the system minimises battery-draining functions once it has sent the signal. Very good. Knocks the socks off w3w.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2019, 05:47:36 pm »
Well that's interesting; founder of Open Street Map now works for What3Words.
Quote
He also referred me to an essay by Steve Coast, a What3Words employee and the founder of OpenStreetMap (which is essentially a worldwide Wikipedia-like map). The essay, “Why I Like What3Words,” praises the company for finding a way to identify locations beyond the street level.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/06/the-most-interesting-story-about-postal-addresses-you-have-ever-read/487160/
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2019, 06:12:37 pm »
I used w3w in anger yesterday. We’ve rented a cottage for the week (whose postcode covers a large area) and my wife and so went on ahead and texted me the 3 words. Used the “navigate to” function in the app which opened Apple Maps and took me straight here.

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2019, 09:55:23 am »
She could easily have texted you a maps link?

(Me and my friends send locations via the built in functions in FB messenger and WhatsApp all the time)

W3W currently plastering everywhere I visit online with ads. Big publicity blitz.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2019, 10:10:37 am »
We use Find Friends, an Apple App included with phones and iPads.

w3w is simply trying to make money, and in the process is buggering up simplicity.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2019, 11:12:46 am »
I have a free app called Latitude Longditude.  Well proven and interpretable by all emergency services and many other people besides.  I also understand that you can use lat long in google maps too.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2019, 11:21:49 am »
Anyone who has watched Hunted will know just how trifling it easy it is find anyone with an active mobile phone.

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2019, 11:36:17 am »
Previous thread:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=111508.0

I have two objections to what.3.words:

One) it is proprietary, private enterprise
Two) resolving information from an address is utterly reliant on a working app

The second is the more fundamental flaw. Given a postcode and local knowledge, you can get close to a location. Given lat/long, you can work out (in your head) roughly where that is. With a bit of knowledge, you can probably work out the distance from current location. The same applies to multiple other grid systems.

That's it really.

With map grids, there are ways to find locations. The company is obviously working hard to get enough people to use for it to become the standard. Once it has become the accepted method, there's no going back.


Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2019, 12:56:45 pm »
The company is obviously working hard to get enough people to use for it to become the standard. Once it has become the accepted method, there's no going back.

It's a proven business model.

Helped by having an idea that looks cool to the lay-person, and the likes of the BBC regurgitating press releases without mention of the existence of AML.

This is a product for selling to $shite_courier, so their customers can easily give locations that are more useful than postal addresses.  It's not a way to save lives, any more than, say, Instagram is.  (At least until it gains sufficient traction that it becomes a de-facto standard that the emergency services *have* to support, like postcodes have.)
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2019, 02:03:34 pm »
From OP's link:

Quote
Mercedes Benz has also included its system in its cars

Well that's quite a big prestigious brand name and it rubs off but guess what, Mercedes Benz has bought 10% of What3words.


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2019, 11:53:44 am »

Where have I seen these arguments before?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49754820

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2019, 01:10:50 pm »
I happened to see something about w3w in today’s Observer. They’re trying to licence the idea to the likes of Amazon and DHL as a much more accurate method of finding properties than the postcode. It was in an article about eBay scammers taking advantage of the fact that RM “tracked” deliveries only confirm the post code, which can contain 30-50 properties, and the same goes for many delivery systems that don’t require a signature.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2019, 02:23:19 pm »
The actual story is buried right at the bottom of that article:

Quote
But work done on how to get GPS co-ordinates from mobile devices to the emergency service, produced the Advanced Mobile Location (AML) specification, which silently and automatically sends an SMS containing the GPS co-ordinates to the emergency authority. It is available on both Apple and Android handsets.

The problem arises in integrating AML with the CAD, which is difficult, and that's why the emergency services are looking for alternatives.

Why isn't this a scandal? "The emergency services can't get their IT sorted, so I had to download some stupid app while bleeding to death under a rock."

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2019, 05:43:52 pm »
Why isn't this a scandal? "The emergency services can't get their IT sorted, so I had to download some stupid app while bleeding to death under a rock."

"Government agency underfunded and lacks modern IT Systems."

Now, your starter for 10, what agency/department/government run thing, does this apply to.

Bonus question, is there any agency/department/government run thing this *DOESN'T* apply to?

And of course the government is intent on pissing away a lot of money on destroying the country. So it ain't gonna be fixed any time soon...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2019, 05:47:44 pm »

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/ukc/using_sarloc_for_rescue_on_your_smartphone-687688

Quote
Users can't use SARLOC on their Smartphone for rescue. It's not an app you can put on your phone. MR teams will ask you if they can send you a text, which you reply to, and they use SARLOC to locate you, not the other way around.

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2019, 03:43:18 pm »

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/ukc/using_sarloc_for_rescue_on_your_smartphone-687688

Quote
Users can't use SARLOC on their Smartphone for rescue. It's not an app you can put on your phone. MR teams will ask you if they can send you a text, which you reply to, and they use SARLOC to locate you, not the other way around.
I can't see the issue with SARLOC. It seems to overcome nearly all of the problems with W3W and AML.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2019, 04:13:54 pm »

I can't see the issue with SARLOC. It seems to overcome nearly all of the problems with W3W and AML.

SARLOC needs Smartphone, GPS switched on, Phone Signal and Data Signal. The rescue service sends a link via SMS to the user's phone where the user opens the link on a browser.

W3W needs Smartphone, W3W App, GPS switched on, Phone Signal but not Data Signal. The user speaks or texts the 3 word address to the rescue service.

The difference is that W3W doesn't need a Data signal which is significant in a remote area.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2019, 04:45:07 pm »
And AML needs smartphone, GPS present but not switched on, phone signal.

This would seem like the best place to concentrate effort.  If emergency services can buy into a proprietary app, why not expend the effort on sorting AML out?  Done properly, I expect that could speed up many emergency calls, not just those from remote or hard to describe locations.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2019, 05:13:31 pm »
And AML needs smartphone, GPS present but not switched on, phone signal.

OK  have just read this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Mobile_Location
 it talks about switching location services on but is not clear if this is WIFI or GPS or both. Can it do this?

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2019, 05:34:10 pm »
And AML needs smartphone, GPS present but not switched on, phone signal.

OK  have just read this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Mobile_Location
 it talks about switching location services on but is not clear if this is WIFI or GPS or both. Can it do this?
It uses the phone's 'location services'; that is the full gamut. The user just needs to dial 911 (or 999).

Like Kim said, if the integration at the emergency services end was sorted, this is by far the best route.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2019, 06:58:57 pm »
Like Kim said, if the integration at the emergency services end was sorted, this is by far the best route.

OK thanks, sounds like Kim is right again. :-)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2019, 07:16:16 pm »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_(emergency_telephone_number)#E112
Quote
The EU Directive E112 (2003) requires mobile phone networks to provide emergency services with whatever information they have about the location a mobile call was made.
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2019, 11:53:00 pm »
I downloaded the app after reading about it in the OP.  Three days later while cycling back from Norfolk to Reading, I came across a lady who had fallen into a Cambridgeshire dike after an ill fated attempt to retrieve a piece of litter.  I called the fire service and offered them the 3LW which was gratefully received.  I have to admit that I didn't hang around long enough to witness the outcome as I was under pressure from my ride partner who was chasing a SR series qualifying ride time :-[
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2019, 09:52:55 am »
I happened to see something about w3w in today’s Observer. They’re trying to licence the idea to the likes of Amazon and DHL as a much more accurate method of finding properties than the postcode. It was in an article about eBay scammers taking advantage of the fact that RM “tracked” deliveries only confirm the post code, which can contain 30-50 properties, and the same goes for many delivery systems that don’t require a signature.

However the Personal Digital Assistants that Royal Mail Post people use, actually records the GPS coordinates of where any item was scanned, including RM Tracked non signature.  If an item is "claimed" to have been lost, or misdelivered, RM delivery office staff can actually look at the PDA data and see where the scan occurred.  I imagine the same happens with the scanners which other couriers use. 

Re: Potential life saving app.
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2019, 09:59:20 am »
I imagine the same happens with the scanners which other couriers use.

My most recent Hermes delivery (yesterday) had this. My wife signed for the package and before she'd even got it in the house to me (I was on a work call) I had an email from Hermes with a map showing the delivery location and a copy of my wife's scribble signature on the handset.

I guess it won't be long before the delivery drivers will be wearing body cameras so they can provide footage of the person who signed for it, or evidence it was left somewhere as requested, if needed.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."