Author Topic: Fastest PBP rider 2019  (Read 1613 times)

Andy Corless

  • Doesn't take the p***, says it as it is!
Fastest PBP rider 2019
« on: August 22, 2019, 12:59:42 am »
Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but FWIW: I've just learnt that the fastest provisional time was 43-hours, 49 minutes by Hajo Eckstein.

Andy Corless

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2019, 04:26:14 am »
Yep, and he had issues with broken spokes in his rear wheel and had to take the wheel out of his DF (not the quickest job).

He’s got form for being speedy on Audaxes.

He’s a really lovely, gentle and humble chap. Has never had a car, just uses his DF, Milan or recumbent two wheeler for everything.
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2019, 08:10:33 am »
Yep, and he had issues with broken spokes in his rear wheel and had to take the wheel out of his DF (not the quickest job).
What's a DF?

LMT

Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2019, 08:14:03 am »
Yep, and he had issues with broken spokes in his rear wheel and had to take the wheel out of his DF (not the quickest job).
What's a DF?
Diamond Frame bike. ;D

Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2019, 08:30:01 am »
Not a diamond frame, but a velomobile: https://www.intercitybike.nl/en/

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2019, 09:20:44 am »
Hajo's DF- pic from one of his posts on velomobilforum.de

Phenomenal performance, and of course he'd have been even faster without the mechanicals.

Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2019, 05:31:43 pm »
Excellent, it was only a matter of time before this would happen. Ian Perry also put in a respectable 54 hours in his velomobile.

Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2019, 05:42:41 pm »
Guess it wasn't the best conditions to go for the overall record (Bjorn was just over an hour faster in 2015 - on an upright too), even with a shorter course.

Velomobiles may have huge aerodynamic benefits over an upright but those a partially mitigated by uprights being able to ride in groups and share the work, and not having the huge weight penalty.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2019, 06:19:25 pm »
Guess it wasn't the best conditions to go for the overall record (Bjorn was just over an hour faster in 2015 - on an upright too), even with a shorter course.

Velomobiles may have huge aerodynamic benefits over an upright but those a partially mitigated by uprights being able to ride in groups and share the work, and not having the huge weight penalty.

The weight penalty isn't that high. Empty weight of the DF velomobile is about 24kg. Some of the uprights out there aren't much lighter. Sure it's more than a UCI compliant carbon bike, but it's not *that* heavy...

The aero advantage is phenomenal...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2019, 07:26:06 pm »
The weight penalty isn't that high. Empty weight of the DF velomobile is about 24kg. Some of the uprights out there aren't much lighter.

Well, not surprising if one compares the lightest velomobiles with the heaviest uprights. I'd be surprised if Bjorn's upright was more than 10kg with everything attached.

Given the aerodynamic advantage (24h record is 896km for an upright [Strasser outdoor] and 1,219.02km for a velomobile outdoors) then something is getting in the way of them trouncing the existing upright records. Is it one (or a combination) of:-
* Aerodynamic benefits of uprights riding in a group sharing the work
* Weight (the 24h records above aren't affected by this and show the aerodynamic benefits on a relatively flat circuit but PBP is far from flat)
* Upright records (for things like PBP) are just held by better athletes

and/or something else?
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2019, 07:32:16 pm »
Not a diamond frame, but a velomobile: https://www.intercitybike.nl/en/

That is very unfortunate! "DF" has been used for Diamond Frame for ... well, probably as long as "normal" bikes have existed.
Has never ridden RAAM
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Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2019, 08:21:37 pm »
It’s DF because those are the initials of the creator, Daniel Fenn.

As a rough comparison, my average riding speed on my recumbent Trike (19kg) was 17.4 km/h over 44,000km. My Milan Velomobile, weight 27kg, averages 24.36 km/h over 23,000km. And I am a fat woman nearing 50 years old. I am less fit now, due to age etc, but the efficiency of the Milan massively helps. We cruise at 35 km/h and the only issue at that speed is the wind noise in your ears is rather disturbing.
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2019, 07:23:40 pm »
It’s DF because those are the initials of the creator, Daniel Fenn.

As a rough comparison, my average riding speed on my recumbent Trike (19kg) was 17.4 km/h over 44,000km. My Milan Velomobile, weight 27kg, averages 24.36 km/h over 23,000km. And I am a fat woman nearing 50 years old. I am less fit now, due to age etc, but the efficiency of the Milan massively helps. We cruise at 35 km/h and the only issue at that speed is the wind noise in your ears is rather disturbing.

Do you know which one he used for the PBP?

Edit: Sorry I should have spotted. If he took the wheel out of the DF presumably he was in the Milan.

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2019, 07:42:20 pm »
No, he was riding the DF.

He had problems with his rear wheel during the ride and had to remove it, replace the spokes and refit it.

This is not so trivial in a velomobile.
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2019, 06:14:24 am »
and/or something else?

Numbers? If we were all riding them instead of uprights, supremely gifted riders might well go even faster.

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2019, 07:01:24 am »
The weight penalty isn't that high. Empty weight of the DF velomobile is about 24kg. Some of the uprights out there aren't much lighter.

Well, not surprising if one compares the lightest velomobiles with the heaviest uprights. I'd be surprised if Bjorn's upright was more than 10kg with everything attached.

Given the aerodynamic advantage (24h record is 896km for an upright [Strasser outdoor] and 1,219.02km for a velomobile outdoors) then something is getting in the way of them trouncing the existing upright records. Is it one (or a combination) of:-
* Aerodynamic benefits of uprights riding in a group sharing the work
* Weight (the 24h records above aren't affected by this and show the aerodynamic benefits on a relatively flat circuit but PBP is far from flat)
* Upright records (for things like PBP) are just held by better athletes

and/or something else?
I think the reason the Velomobile wasn’t much faster in PBP is the climbing. They are slower up hills. On a completely flat route they would have much more of an advantage.

Not being able to draft others is no issue as they are so wind-efficient.

The newest Velomobile, an After 7 also built by Daniel Fenn, is 19kg. My Milan is 27kg, but I have to say the weight doesn’t matter too much on flat roads if you’re not constantly stopping.

It’s a fairly small pool of riders using velomobiles, I guess put a phenomenal cyclist (who has adapted to recumbent riding) in an After 7 and you would see much faster speeds.

Hajo and Daniel Fenn rode from Hamburg to Berlin on normal roads (not closed to traffic) and averaged 52km/h on the 270km ride. They, along with Marcel Graber, are probably the top Velomobile riders in the world, now Christian Von Ascheberg has died.
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2019, 11:28:43 am »
GCN just posted this on YouTube this morning...pretty good look at the advantages of a VM over unfaired bikes (though they didn't compare it with an upwrong)
https://youtu.be/MIsa0L5UNgs

Rather hard to make a comparison between PBP performances of the VMs and 'normal bikes' because there are so many factors at play. Rimas (zigzag) was only 11% slower over the course than Hajo. Robert Coquen, fastest upwrong, a mere .6 kph, 2%, slower than Hajo. I'm pretty sure Hajo's spoke repairs took a lot longer to do than any mechanicals they may have suffered. We don't know power outputs, how much time they spent resting and eating…and so on, and so on.
As for the hills: if the terrain is rolling, a VM's aero advantage would mitigate the weight penalty to at least some extent- in other words, by building up enough speed on the approach, the climb wouldn't be as slow, perhaps even faster, and you'll pick up a lot more speed on downhills.

Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2019, 12:06:17 pm »
and/or something else?

Numbers? If we were all riding them instead of uprights, supremely gifted riders might well go even faster.

The best comparison we have are Andy Wilkinson's two LEJOG records from the early 1990s. 45.02 Hours on an upright, and 41.04 hours on a faired Windcheetah. The recumbent wasn't a standard model, so is more comparable to current models.

PBP is limited to 28kph. So the best measure of performance over a similar distance remains LEJOG.

I did hear that one of the velomobiles had been found to have an electric motor.

Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2019, 01:59:56 pm »
GCN just posted this on YouTube this morning...pretty good look at the advantages of a VM over unfaired bikes (though they didn't compare it with an upwrong)
https://youtu.be/MIsa0L5UNgs

Rather hard to make a comparison between PBP performances of the VMs and 'normal bikes' because there are so many factors at play. Rimas (zigzag) was only 11% slower over the course than Hajo. Robert Coquen, fastest upwrong, a mere .6 kph, 2%, slower than Hajo. I'm pretty sure Hajo's spoke repairs took a lot longer to do than any mechanicals they may have suffered. We don't know power outputs, how much time they spent resting and eating…and so on, and so on.
As for the hills: if the terrain is rolling, a VM's aero advantage would mitigate the weight penalty to at least some extent- in other words, by building up enough speed on the approach, the climb wouldn't be as slow, perhaps even faster, and you'll pick up a lot more speed on downhills.
Apparently Hajo had 38 hours of actual riding.

He rode the 600km home to Köln in one go a couple of days ago.
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: Fastest PBP rider 2019
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2019, 02:47:33 pm »
Apparently Hajo had 38 hours of actual riding.

He rode the 600km home to Köln in one go a couple of days ago.
Wow, for both. That's very, very, little faffing indeed. Found his Strava…PBP on no sleep!