Author Topic: PBP 2019 - Notes to self  (Read 8152 times)

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2019, 08:41:40 am »
Do it on a bike rather than the trike so you have more time to sleep and enjoy the hospitality. However, it was great fun on the trike, so we’ll see how I feel in 4 years time....

Having the capability to sleep anywhere (bivvy and mat) was a huge help.

Double espressos are rocket fuel. The 40km run into Dreux was awesome fun, I was flying!!

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2019, 12:02:52 pm »
I had no idea that di2 battery life was so poor. I presumed it would be charge and forget for a month, wow. And you can't charge it from a usb power bank?? Looks like I'll be swerving electric gears for a few years yet, for me the entire selling point is that they'd be reliable and long lasting.

Where do you get the idea you can’t charge it from a power bank - that’s what I did on PBP *while riding *

I had a Di2 problem appear on my way to the train, I ran the system from my power pack from that ride and was preparing to ride PBP with it like that too
It somehow fixed itself when I put the charger on after the train ride; I then started noticing a banshee like whail from the solenoid when returning it to the small ring... Turns out the mech cage was catching on the chainring, which I left until I got back to the hotel because I wasn't buggering around with mech positioning while utterly f---- and it was working well enough.
Charged from Flashing green at somepoint on the return (I would probably have worked but I didn't want to risk it), the extra drain from the duff shifting won't have been helping.

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2019, 12:38:45 pm »
If I travel down next time then I think I'll take a 1.5 litre bladder and leave my water bottles at home.   I'll then get a couple of new PBP bottles at bike check.  Then I'll fill the bladder and bottles for the first night.  This is on the basis I will be in the wacky races next time, and therefore have a bag / bladder behind my seat.

At the weekend; I threw away the bottles I took to PBP, or rather my wife did. She discovered mould growing on the insides.  I wonder if this had something to do with my worsening gut issues as time went on.  I didn't use the bottles during my qualfiers and just dug them out of an old pile of bottles, as they had more capacity.

The basic note is, don't take an old water bottle, unless you are sure it's nice and clean on the inside.

dubya

  • You can't stop the waves,but you can learn to surf
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2019, 12:50:27 pm »
If I travel down next time then I think I'll take a 1.5 litre bladder and leave my water bottles at home.   I'll then get a couple of new PBP bottles at bike check.  Then I'll fill the bladder and bottles for the first night.  This is on the basis I will be in the wacky races next time, and therefore have a bag / bladder behind my seat.

At the weekend; I threw away the bottles I took to PBP, or rather my wife did. She discovered mould growing on the insides.  I wonder if this had something to do with my worsening gut issues as time went on.  I didn't use the bottles during my qualfiers and just dug them out of an old pile of bottles, as they had more capacity.

The basic note is, don't take an old water bottle, unless you are sure it's nice and clean on the inside.
My bottles showed signs of mould by the time I got home too.   One of these sorts out the problem.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-bottle-cleaner-brush/#.XXY80LQmlgQ.mailto

Worthwhile investment

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2019, 12:59:03 pm »
One of my bottles had developed something by the time it had been through the dishwasher and sat out drying at home afterwards.

Something to remember with bottles is you're probably not giving them a proper wash every day, so having had:
High5 2:1 and 4:1 powders, electrolytes, coca, poweraid and plain water in them over the course of 2 weeks with only light rinses between usages, I'm not surprised.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2019, 01:02:51 pm »
This is one of the reasons I used only gels on this PBP.

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2019, 01:20:00 pm »
I always give my bottles a good long soak in Milton after washing them. It’s sorted out a lot of stomach issues...

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2019, 03:51:26 pm »
Stuff to remember for next time

fuck ups
---------
Do all the stuff you have actually worked out that is a good idea in the last 15 years of doing these rides instead of forgetting it
Don't have a head cold brewing at the start
Do eat all the food at the start
Don't fuck around at Montane
Don't assume "you can make it" to the next control.  Because after 20 minutes you will be incredibly sleepy
Do wheel suck loads even if they are a bit slow.  The energy-saving is worth it
Take less luggage.  Fewer socks, mitts, lighter battery pack, no mini lock, no spare gear cable, 1 or 2 tubes of electrolyes is enough, don't need any spare gps batteries
Be less fat
Get a better afternoon sleep before starting
Don't stop at those roadside tables expecting coffee because they never have it

Good stuff
------------
Inflatable sleeping pads are the greatest and well worth 400g of weight
Caffeine chewing gum is pretty good
Recette Pain Au Pepite De Chocolat is as good as pain au raisin
That's two PBPs I have got away with without mudguards
I might have had too much stuff with me but on the plus side I wasn't cold at night at all
Running the GPS off the generator so it lights up at night is nice
Helping people is more important than finishing on time
Saw a lot of crashes but wasn't pranged by one
Probably want to learn some French for "concussion", "in pain" etc
Once again the support from the local people is amazing
Riding around in Normandy on a sunny day before/after PBP is as much fun as PBP the event

Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2019, 11:03:24 am »
For me it well as well as I could have hoped, so not much to add on things to avoid, but things that worked well for me:
  • Accommodation at Huttopia (thanks again to Ian for organising) was great, and worth the extra expense of paying for the full week to be able to leave stuff there, and know I had a bed to go back to whenever I finished
  • I'm one of the (seemingly rare) people who found the food at controls OK. Eating little and often (I got food at every control) worked well for me. I was fine on baguettes and pastries most of the time. The cooked-to-order omelette at Mortagne on the return was a highlight, and just what I needed at the time.
  • My plan to take the bright green saddle cover someone had left on my bike advertising a restaurant a few months back worked brilliantly and I'm sure saved me a few minutes of wandering around trying to find my bike again, especially after the longer control stops when I'd slept.
  • I didn't use the spare shorts or jersey that I was carrying, but still glad of having them, as I would have wanted to get changed in the event of rain
  • Riding out there was great (in two days - home-Portsmouth, overnight ferry, Caen - Rambouillet) and really calmed my nerves before the ride.
Things I might do differently next time:
  • Try and faff less, although overall I was happy with a 70% move ratio (not sure how that compares to others) and sometimes I was stopped at a control for an hour because I needed to be stopped for an hour, even if I didn't really do very much.
  • I tended to leave my helmet with my bike, but noticed that at the controls where they bothered to check that bikes were leaving with the right rider, they often just checked that the number on the bike matched the number on the helmet, rather than looking at the wristband, so someone would have just had to steal my helmet as well as my bike. If I had a bike more worth stealing that would be a concern, so next time I'd probably not bother sticking the helmet number on. I think it's just for the photos anyway

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2019, 11:55:42 am »
Foo-jerrr:
https://youtu.be/5t-eVMM8PdU

(I've been pronouncing it like Fig-err-ess in Spain, because je suis un imbecile)

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2019, 12:41:11 am »
1. Don’t do three qualifying series. One is enough and do plenty of quick, nonstop 200s as well.

2. Consider not riding Mersey 24 Hour TT. I love the event and did a PB this year so I’m glad I rode it, but I don’t think I had recovered by PBP or it could just be that I didn’t do enough between the Mersey and the PBP. I had weekend off cycling then a 200km on each of the next two weekends.

3. At least take your best, newest tent if you’re going to camp, not that leaky old one, or preferably blow the expense and book a wood cabin. I ended up sleeping in my car this year, luckily it’s a big estate.

4. Carry some savoury snacks as well as bars and gels. I carried 24 x 40g SIS energy bars, about 12 energy gels and 18 caffeine gels. I couldn’t eat enough bars to keep pace with the energy I was using climbing and pushing the headwind.

5. Don’t push the nonstop strategy too far. I was sleepy by 10pm on the Monday night and started having caffeine gels but with little effect. I struggled on slowly in the cold, only saved by soup, cake and coffee kindly given by French families living along the route. When I eventually stopped for a micro sleep I felt so much better and almost doubled my speed for a long time afterwards.

6. Don’t wait until Tinteniac on the way back for your first sit down meal. I did this to make the most of the daylight on the Tuesday, but should have stopped sooner. It was Carhaix on the way back in 2015 which resulted in less starvation.

7. Sleep more and earlier in the night. I rode through a second night but not very well. I was slow and had to stop at bars for soup and coffee and to rest my eyes and legs. I only slept for half an hour at Le Ribay and lay down for another rest on the way to Dreux. I had four hours sleep in 2015.

8. Put more effort in towards the end. This was tricky for me as I didn’t have the diversion route in my Garmin so didn’t know how far the finish was. I also stopped for a meal at Dreux as I thought the meal at the end might be rubbish. In 2015 there was no veggie option but this time it featured a nice chick pea curry. I just trundled in to the finish but should have put more effort in to those last few km.

9. Do some proper training including shorter, faster rides. I hardly did any short rides this year but plenty of distance - about 7900km in just 32 rides before going to PBP. I could just about manage a 29 something for a 10 mile TT if I actually did one, but with the right training I could probably knock 2 or 3 minutes off and I think this might also raise my long distance cruising speed.


Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2019, 11:14:03 am »
Make sure that you have some quieter weekends, just dawdling on a bike.
Mrs. M is quite good at forcing me to have a rest.
I can be champing at the bit to get some miles in but on reflection some rest is a good thing  for the mind and the body.
You can't be full on all the time between qualifying and the start.

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2019, 05:10:30 am »
If you make a ride plan from someone else's template double check that the control closing times are actually correct.

Do not ask control card workers what time the control closes for your group, they have no idea.

Don't sleep until your control closing time at Loudeac and expect to gain a lot time going to Brest and back if you are an average rider riding solo.

Riding with people who started 2:30 earlier does not mean you don't have a time problem.   :facepalm:

In favorable conditions it is possible to make up a 3 hour deficit between Villaines and Dreux.
 

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2019, 07:51:02 am »
Dont's:

Eat and drink beer at pub on way out as that is where I must have picked up the bug that gave me severe trots on Friday and persisted until Wednesday.

Book a cabin and have the hassle of sub-letting the bunks.

Don't use a ferry - a slightly longer drive and using the Channel Tunnel is better and quicker.

Carry lots of spare tyres and inner tubes.

Carry lots of heavy flap jacks then find them inedible after 600km but carry them all the way to Dreux before binning them.

Worry about the hills leading to dropping the gearing which reduced my speed and momentum for the lower portions of the climbs.

Do's.

Carry and eat more rice pudding.

Carry and eat more wine gums.

Ride with the home made sunshade which reduced the sun's heating and burn potential massively.

Qualify then concentrate on speed and fitness especially hard/fast non-stop 100 mile rides.



Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2019, 08:34:10 am »

Do not ask control card workers what time the control closes for your group, they have no idea.



Riding with people who started 2:30 earlier does not mean you don't have a time problem.   :facepalm:



We saw a lot of this. There were riders of the same number group confidently riding on, while others were in a state of despair.

It seemed that many hadn't internalised deadlines, and were reliant on technology to guide them. When that didn't work out, they expected the volunteers to fill the gap.

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2019, 12:01:06 pm »

Do not ask control card workers what time the control closes for your group, they have no idea.



Riding with people who started 2:30 earlier does not mean you don't have a time problem.   :facepalm:



We saw a lot of this. There were riders of the same number group confidently riding on, while others were in a state of despair.

It seemed that many hadn't internalised deadlines, and were reliant on technology to guide them. When that didn't work out, they expected the volunteers to fill the gap.
I dont think if helps that intermediate times are harsher than they need to be.
E.g. Villaines is at just over 1000km, if the brevet finished there riders would have 75 hours to reach Villaines, but due to the way the times are set riders must be there 2hrs 46 minutes earlier. The impact of this is that riders reaching Brest close to cut off time and tired are forced to push on having a series of short naps as they scramble for artificial closing times where a single longer sleep would put them in a better condition fo finish the ride. IMO.

I think the lower averaged speed applied as events cross certain thresholds is a recognition that the ride has extended into a different day and so an extra sleep is required, otherwise why isn't there a more gradual change of min speed as distance increases? But the way control times are set doesn't recognise this need for sleep because the extra control deadline is too close to allow one

Riders are therefore riding tired (if they are full value at Brest) moving slower and making bad decisions.
   Eddington  87 miles

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2019, 12:08:37 pm »

I dont think if helps that intermediate times are harsher than they need to be.
E.g. Villaines is at just over 1000km, if the brevet finished there riders would have 75 hours to reach Villaines, but due to the way the times are set riders must be there 2hrs 46 minutes earlier. The impact of this is that riders reaching Brest close to cut off time and tired are forced to push on having a series of short naps as they scramble for artificial closing times where a single longer sleep would put them in a better condition fo finish the ride. IMO.

How come the closing times chosen were so harsh? Surely there's an algorithm for this so the closing time on of a control at 1000km on a 1200km is the same as on a 1000km?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2019, 12:13:55 pm »

I dont think if helps that intermediate times are harsher than they need to be.
E.g. Villaines is at just over 1000km, if the brevet finished there riders would have 75 hours to reach Villaines, but due to the way the times are set riders must be there 2hrs 46 minutes earlier. The impact of this is that riders reaching Brest close to cut off time and tired are forced to push on having a series of short naps as they scramble for artificial closing times where a single longer sleep would put them in a better condition fo finish the ride. IMO.

How come the closing times chosen were so harsh? Surely there's an algorithm for this so the closing time on of a control at 1000km on a 1200km is the same as on a 1000km?

J

This is not how PBP works. Control times are not based on a flat 13.33kph (or 15kph for 80h), but instead on a declining average speed.

On the 80h:

16.7kph to Brest (36h) on the 80h, then 14.3kph between 600km and 1000km, then 12.5kph from 1000km to 1200km (no allowance for overdistance in these calcs).

This meant that when I got to Brest in 35h, I was pushed for time despite having 5h in hand against a flat schedule.

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2019, 12:17:38 pm »

I dont think if helps that intermediate times are harsher than they need to be.
E.g. Villaines is at just over 1000km, if the brevet finished there riders would have 75 hours to reach Villaines, but due to the way the times are set riders must be there 2hrs 46 minutes earlier. The impact of this is that riders reaching Brest close to cut off time and tired are forced to push on having a series of short naps as they scramble for artificial closing times where a single longer sleep would put them in a better condition fo finish the ride. IMO.

How come the closing times chosen were so harsh? Surely there's an algorithm for this so the closing time on of a control at 1000km on a 1200km is the same as on a 1000km?

It's front loaded and is just the way that ACP/PBP has chosen to do things.

The last time it was discussed it was here: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=113068.msg2420237#msg2420237
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

stefan

  • aka martin
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2019, 12:31:49 pm »
Dont's:
..
Book a cabin and have the hassle of sub-letting the bunks.
..

But thanks for doing it all the same! It was good to meet you, and dinner/drinks before the ferry on the way back were great  :thumbsup: (Shame about the impact of the ones on the way out though...)
Member no. 152 of La Société Adrian Hands

JonB

  • Granny Ring ... Yes Please!
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2019, 12:43:49 pm »
I dont think if helps that intermediate times are harsher than they need to be.
E.g. Villaines is at just over 1000km, if the brevet finished there riders would have 75 hours to reach Villaines, but due to the way the times are set riders must be there 2hrs 46 minutes earlier. The impact of this is that riders reaching Brest close to cut off time and tired are forced to push on having a series of short naps as they scramble for artificial closing times where a single longer sleep would put them in a better condition fo finish the ride. IMO.

I think the lower averaged speed applied as events cross certain thresholds is a recognition that the ride has extended into a different day and so an extra sleep is required, otherwise why isn't there a more gradual change of min speed as distance increases? But the way control times are set doesn't recognise this need for sleep because the extra control deadline is too close to allow one

Riders are therefore riding tired (if they are full value at Brest) moving slower and making bad decisions.
Despite having ridden it before and knowing that the first 600 had to be ridden faster, the whole control times thing messed with my head until about Carhaix on the way back.  At which point I realised that the control times were nothing like the AUK control times (based on a flat average) and that it's one of the things that makes PBP different (harder?).  My initial plan was that I wouldn't ride it in the same way as 2015 but the control times give so little time for manouvre (at my speed) and I gave into the impending sense of deja vu.

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2019, 12:56:51 pm »

I dont think if helps that intermediate times are harsher than they need to be.
E.g. Villaines is at just over 1000km, if the brevet finished there riders would have 75 hours to reach Villaines, but due to the way the times are set riders must be there 2hrs 46 minutes earlier. The impact of this is that riders reaching Brest close to cut off time and tired are forced to push on having a series of short naps as they scramble for artificial closing times where a single longer sleep would put them in a better condition fo finish the ride. IMO.

How come the closing times chosen were so harsh? Surely there's an algorithm for this so the closing time on of a control at 1000km on a 1200km is the same as on a 1000km?

It's front loaded and is just the way that ACP/PBP has chosen to do things.

The last time it was discussed it was here: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=113068.msg2420237#msg2420237
I'm happy with the front loading, taking 45hours to get to Brest would not be prudent. I'm less convinced at feeding that time in hand back at 1.5 hours per stage.

I finished in 79 hours, but if ix been on the 80 ride I suspect I would have been out of time at a few controls
   Eddington  87 miles

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2019, 12:59:05 pm »
I worked out the timings and printed them on a bit of paper for looking at.
The numbers below are for the closing times of the 90hr

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Route point                  km      Time Btw   Inter Avg   Overall Avg
RAMBOUILLET                   0            
Mortagne-au-Perche          118      07:52:00   15.00      15.00
VILLAINES-LA-JUHEL          217      06:36:00   15.00      15.00
FOUGERES                    306      05:56:00   15.00      15.00
TINTENIAC                   360      03:51:00   14.03      14.85
Quédillac                   386      01:51:00   14.05      14.79
LOUDEAC                     445      04:13:00   13.99      14.68
Saint-Nicolas-du-Pélem      488      03:07:00   13.80      14.60
CARHAIX-PLOUGUER            521      02:19:00   14.24      14.57
BREST                       610      06:21:00   14.02      14.49
CARHAIX-PLOUGUER            693      05:58:00   13.91      14.42
Saint-Nicolas-du-Pélem      738      03:23:00   13.30      14.34
LOUDEAC                     783      03:26:00   13.11      14.27
Quédillac                   843      04:36:00   13.04      14.17
TINTENIAC                   869      02:03:00   12.68      14.12
FOUGERES                    923      04:09:00   13.01      14.05
VILLAINES-LA-JUHEL         1012      07:05:00   12.56      13.91
MORTAGNE-AU-PERCHE         1097      07:02:00   12.09      13.75
DREUX                      1174      06:28:00   11.91      13.61
RAMBOUILLET                1219      03:44:00   12.05      13.54


For my start time from Chrono-Course

RAMBOUILLET          - 18/08/2019 18:30 - Actual - 18:36:07 - 6 late
Mortagne-au-Perche   - 19/08/2019 02:22 - Not recorded - GPS arrival: 23:13 - 03:08 in hand
VILLAINES-LA-JUHEL   - 19/08/2019 08:58 - 04:22:07 - 04:36 in hand
Fougeres             - 19/08/2019 14:54 - 10:13:18 - 04:40 in hand - 15 mins head on table
Tinteniac            - 19/08/2019 18:45 - 14:11:22 - 04:34 in hand
Quedillac            - 19/08/2019 20:36 - Not recorded - GPS arrival: 15:53 - 04:43
Loudeac              - 20/08/2019 00:49 - 19:49:26 - 05:00 in hand
St-Nic               - 20/08/2019 03:56 - Not recorded - GPS: 22:53 -  05:03 in hand - 10min snooze IIRC
Carhaix              - 20/08/2019 06:15 - 01:26:28 - 04:49 in hand - 30mins head on table sleep
Brest                - 20/08/2019 12:36 - 08:51:34 - 03:15 in hand - 10mins stop at top of Roc, 30 min at Sizun
Carhaix              - 20/08/2019 18:34 - 15:06:15 - 03:32 in hand - 30min stop at Sizun
St Nic               - 20/08/2019 21:57 - Not recorded - GPS: 18:05 - 03:52 in hand
Loudeac              - 21/08/2019 01:23 - 21:07:42 - 04:16 in hand
Quedillac            - 21/08/2019 05:59 - Not recorded - Didn't stop anyway - 02:26ish - 03:33 in hand - 1hr sleep in the grass just out of La Cheze (mistake...)
Tinteniac            - 21/08/2019 08:02 - 03:45:27 - 04:17 in hand - 2hrs sleep and 30 min eat
Fougeres             - 21/08/2019 12:11 - 09:43:58 - 02:28 in hand
Villaines            - 21/08/2019 19:16 - 17:03:55 - 02:14 in hand
Mortagne             - 22/08/2019 02:18 - 22:43:44 - 03:35 in hand - 1hr sleep on floor and around 30m eat
Dreux                - 22/08/2019 08:46 - 05:12:56 - 03:34 in hand - 1hr sleep and 1hr eat; wanted to finish in daylight
Ramboulliet          - 22/08/2019 12:30 - 09:08:39 - 03:22 in hand


Total Time: 86:32:32 (excludes the 6 mins late at start)
RWGPS Moving time: 59:34

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2019, 01:03:30 pm »
I've dug my spreadsheet out and the 90 hour group was fairly exactly:

15 km/h to Fougeres
14 km/h to Carhaix (*after* Brest)
13 km/h to Fougeres
12.2 km/h to Rambouillet

If the Brest-Rambouillet leg had had a single minimum speed (12.7 km/h), the difference would have peaked at 62 extra minutes at Fougeres.

I can gripe about it, but I think the non-linear schedule matches what you need to aim for to have a chance of finishing on time.

(on preview: FE has the same numbers)

Re: PBP 2019 - Notes to self
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2019, 01:52:57 pm »
I guess the front loading is designed to flush out people who are unlikely to finish (at all) at a point earlier in the ride compared to if it was a flat speed limit throughout where those riders who would ultimately DNF are now up against time limits with an extra couple of days of fatigue and sleep deprivation in their system.

In other words, if someone is going to be a DNF it's better/safer for them to DNF earlier in the ride than later and the front loading helps exacerbate this.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."