Author Topic: Results in Excel format?  (Read 2829 times)

FifeingEejit

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Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2019, 05:46:01 pm »
Could PBP riders avoid having their tracking information published by PBP/ACP if they didn't provide the appropriate consent? (I'm guessing PBP/ACP either didn't bother asking clearly, or provided an opt-out - neither of which really comply with GDPR).

With what end in view - using PBP as cover for a dirty weekend?

Reminds me of a "conversation" (or perhaps a monlogue) I overheard part of while scoffing food outside the Carefour City;
woman with a distinctly southern english accent bellowing out "You know many of the men don't want their wife here"

According to this data it looks like ~80% of Audax UK finished within their time limit (those who list their club as Audax UK had a completion rate of 79% and those who list their country  as UK had a completion rate of 80%). This compares to an overall completion rate of 66% (I've included DNS in the calculations). The AUK rate is similar to previous years I think?

Stats aren't as easy to gain on country of base;
Jasmijn Muller is listed as Dutch but has club as Kingston wheelers; an easy one to figure out but putting all UK based clubs in may pick up riders who hardly if ever ride in the UK.
Another rider is listed as American and has their club as a global one; a bit trickier to figure out unless you know that all of their rides for the year have started on GB and north of the 'umber.

Stats from that pbpresutls site to satisfy my curiosity
Riders with their country as
UK: 449 finished, 7 OTL/HD, 87 DNF, 19 DNS out of 562; 82% of starters finished in time
US: 295 finished, 17 OTL/HD, 124 DNF, 25 DNS  out of 461; 67% of starters finished in time
DE: 540 finished, 22 OTL/HD, 110 DNF, 28 DNS out of 700; 80% of starters finished in time
JP: 215 finished, 21 OTL/HD, 135 DNF, 14 DNS out of 385; 58% of starters finished in time
CA: 75 finished, 7 OTL/HD, 22 DNF, 3 DNS out of 107; 72% of starters finished in time
IE:  48 finished, 0 OTL/HD, 13 DNF, 5 DNS out of 66; 78% of starters finished in time

At club level it doesn't seem to let you build up a list of them in the same way you can of countries;
Ythan CC, West Lothian Clarion and Scottish Borders have 100% records , but they were all or nothing :P
Audax Ecosse, Edinburgh RC and Highland CTC all lost 1 rider

I got a list of riders from the Audax Ecosse facebook page that I'll try and piece together finish rates from, though know it missed a couple.

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2019, 06:21:51 pm »
The definitive result takes time, as it's based on the cards, not the tracking. Although in the absence of a stamp, the tracking is used.
Is it ? I was told by a (possibly misinformed) official that the chip time was being used and the cards were being checked for stamps and penalities.

And also time allowances. I got knocked off by a scooter in 2003, and got three hours allowance in the Brevet Card. Then I got lost, as the marshals had gone from Fresnay sur Sarthe. Back then they used a magnetic swipe card for tracking, although in 1999 you could only follow it on Minitel. I didn't get swiped at the finish, but got my card signed by an official. I was two hours over time, and got a 90 hour time. Not strictly within the rules, but within the spirit of PBP.

The electronics were turned off promptly, so there'll be the odd 84 hour rider in a similar position, and there are lots of HD. The chip time is the official time, but that still leaves a lot of cards to be looked at, and they don't give a partial result. This scrape is handy in alerting riders to problems.

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2019, 06:41:03 pm »
I got curious too:

NL: 73 finished, 4 OTL/HD, 18 DNF, 5 DNS out of 100;  77% of starters finished in time

One HD was less than 2 minutes OTL, it's possible he actually was in time.
A rather depressing stat (I think): only two women from those 100 (including Jasmijn). But they both did finish in time so that's a 100% :D

India: 44 finished, 31 OTL/HD, 222 DNF, 25 DNS out of 322; 15% of starters finished in time
Thailand: 15 finished, 9 OTL/HD, 57 DNF, 6 DNS; 19% of starters finished in time
Korea: 28 finished, 18 OTL/HD, 23 DNF, 0 DNS(!) out of 69; 41% of starters finished in time
France: 1144 finished, 39 OTL/HD, 344 DNF, 41 DNS out of 1568; 75% of starters finished in time

One Korean was OTL by 10 seconds... Hope this gets "corrected" to a 90:00:00 finish!

Also curious how this (esp. the riders from asia) compares to LEL in 2017. LEL was a little warmer in the night (lowest 8 degrees according to my Garmin); much more rain and had a real headwind on the return (much stronger than on this PBP).





Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2019, 07:31:29 pm »
The first electronically-recorded HD would have been 80 hours and 1 second after 16.00 on the Sunday, so midnight  Wednesday for an A group rider. The last would have been around 5pm on the Thursday, which is when the timing operatives switched the equipment off. All subsequent HDs won't be visible on this scrape.

I've had reports of medals being handed out on the Friday, so there'll be a lot more HDs. Riders can also collect proof of passage if controls are closed.  All this can be a bit upsetting for those who see PBP as a sort of graduate qualification in cycling, as it seems like grade inflation. I take a more relaxed attitude, as I did two before this trend set in, in 2007.

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2019, 09:09:32 pm »
Dishing out medals to any rider turning up at the finish does devalue the medals but it’s eventually having your name on the official finishers list that really counts. There seems to be a space on the medals where I hope we will eventually be sent a sticker with our time on it.
The rider tracking app and consequently the Canadian website currently list anyone with tracking data at the finish control as a finisher, but many turned round half way to Brest and steadily worked their way back to Rambouillet. I’ve also noticed several other riders who struggled to Brest, but then probably caught the train back yet still went over the tracking mat at the finish.
Conversely some riders would have had duff tracking chips and were shown as waiting to start even though they had their cards stamped all the way round. A few missed the final tracking time by going straight from the apparent finish to the bike park and on to get their card stamped.


Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2019, 09:43:37 pm »
The first electronically-recorded HD would have been 80 hours and 1 second after 16.00 on the Sunday, so midnight  Wednesday for an A group rider. The last would have been around 5pm on the Thursday, which is when the timing operatives switched the equipment off. All subsequent HDs won't be visible on this scrape.

I've had reports of medals being handed out on the Friday, so there'll be a lot more HDs. Riders can also collect proof of passage if controls are closed.  All this can be a bit upsetting for those who see PBP as a sort of graduate qualification in cycling, as it seems like grade inflation. I take a more relaxed attitude, as I did two before this trend set in, in 2007.
getting a medal =/= being a finisher. As long as they don't appear on the finishers list as successful, I think a little bit a metal for riding 1220km is fine and hardly counts as grade inflation. Especially as they had them made prior to the event, what are they going to do? destroy the extras?
   Eddington  87 miles

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2019, 10:11:41 pm »
The medals used to be posted back with your brevet card (hence made to order). Now it is all about the selfie at the finish, it seems.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2019, 10:39:13 pm »
We give a medal to anyone who completes LEL, regardless of their time. We also gave medals to a select few honourable failures, on the understanding they treated them as mementos.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2019, 10:53:06 pm »
The medals used to be posted back with your brevet card (hence made to order). Now it is all about the selfie at the finish, it seems.

The old french guy was keen to put the medal over my head rather than just hand it over. It seemed to mean more to him than to me. It’s actually a nice touch since the finish is often an anticlimactic experience. It’s probably the least ugly of my four medals.

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2019, 11:22:37 pm »
The medals were only dished out after checking brevet cards. If they wanted to limit who got them, they could have. Maybe they even did?

Having a medal put round your neck is a standard part of any running event and a lot of cycling events (I'm a casual runner, and I have *stacks* of them). Receiving them in the post later would seem rather silly.

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2019, 01:07:52 am »
The last would have been around 5pm on the Thursday, which is when the timing operatives switched the equipment off. All subsequent HDs won't be visible on this scrape.

The last recorded OTL in the pbpresults site is 96:15:19 (page 156) so the timing equipment must have been left running till then which is about 1700 Thursday as you say but not as "fair" for group V starters as it would only be 92 hours for them, disadvantage for later starters, will have to remember that for 2023.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2019, 06:58:39 am »
So running races hand out medals on the finish line. PBP isn’t a race or require running, so doesn’t need to be the same. Meh.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2019, 07:58:10 am »
The last would have been around 5pm on the Thursday, which is when the timing operatives switched the equipment off. All subsequent HDs won't be visible on this scrape.

The last recorded OTL in the pbpresults site is 96:15:19 (page 156) so the timing equipment must have been left running till then which is about 1700 Thursday as you say but not as "fair" for group V starters as it would only be 92 hours for them, disadvantage for later starters, will have to remember that for 2023.
It has to be up until the closing time for the last 84hr so any 90 hour riders could have been significantly over and still been timed.
   Eddington  87 miles

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2019, 09:03:28 am »
Our original plan had been to cover the HD aspect, and get some more interviews up to lunchtime on the Friday. Sadly one of Heather's friends of very long standing had died a week before PBP. The funeral was at 1am on the Friday, and Heather had a eulogy to deliver. The timing was so tight that we had to adopt the switch-off of the timing equipment as the de-facto finish, and miss the closing ceremony and buffet.

An A group rider could have been 17 hours OTL, and still trigger all the timing. I assume that the timing company started at Brest at the cut-off time and picked up the equipment on the way. Alwyn has clearly had comments about the perceived unfairness of this asymmetry, as he addresses it in the FAQs on the LEL 2021 website.

Discussion of this on national websites would have primed riders to collect proof of passage in the face of closed controls. This shift has big implications in terms of souvenir-hunting. Those in search of a HD medal could still be relying on direction signs days later.

This issue doesn't arise on an event with a single start time. The controls can just close at the allotted time, which is handy if there's a cost attached. That's the way all the qualifiers should have operated.

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2019, 09:39:58 am »
Some extra countries analysed:

Italy: 280 finished, 14 OTL/HD, 63 DNF, 19 DNS out of 376; 78% of starters finished in time
Spain: 196 finished, 7 OTL/HD, 54 DNF, 9 DNS out of 265; 77% of starters finished in time
Romania: 42 finished, 0 OTL/HD, 24 DNF, 1 DNS   out of 67; 64% of starters finished in time
Denmark: 53 finished, 1 OTL/HD, 27 DNF, 4 DNS out of 85; 65% of starters finished in time
Belgium: 95 finished, 1 OTL/HD, 20 DNF, 3 DNS out of 119; 82% of starters finished in time
Russia: 128 finished, 6 OTL/HD, 58 DNF, 10 DNS out of 202; 67% of starters finished in time
Australia: 57 finished, 1 OTL/HD, 21 DNF, 6 DNS   out of 85; 72% of starters finished in time
Austria: 51 finished, 2 OTL/HD, 7 DNF, 5 DNS out of 65; 85% of starters finished in time
Brazil: 79 finished, 6 OTL/HD, 41 DNF, 6 DNS out of 132; 63% of starters finished in time
Ukraine: 52 finished, 8 OTL/HD, 20 DNF, 3 DNS out of 83; 65% of starters finished in time

The results of Russia, Spain and Italy lead to a conclusion that climate wasn't the decidint factor in the high amount of DNF's of SE Asian riders

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2019, 09:59:23 am »
I'm not surprised by the high Austrian finish rate. I rode on the back of a group between Villaines and La Hutte, and their riding was exemplary. Before anyone asks, I was carrying a press pass, which allowed me onto the route with any vehicle.

I'd disagree about the Spanish, Italians and Russians. Spain and Italy have abundant mountain ranges, where riders can practice climbing, and experience cold. The Russians are generally impervious to cold. At the check-in they didn't bother with waterproofs, and expressed a hope that it would keep raining, as it was like St Petersburg.

There were Russians from more remote republics, but the biggest contingents were from Baltic Star, and Moscow Caravan.

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2019, 10:45:35 am »
The medals used to be posted back with your brevet card (hence made to order). Now it is all about the selfie at the finish, it seems.

The old french guy was keen to put the medal over my head rather than just hand it over. It seemed to mean more to him than to me. It’s actually a nice touch since the finish is often an anticlimactic experience. It’s probably the least ugly of my four medals.

I handed mine back and asked my guy to put it over my neck so I could film it!  Haha.  Loved it, felt like end of A New Hope.

Edit: Almost

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2019, 11:38:27 am »

At club level it doesn't seem to let you build up a list of them in the same way you can of countries;
Ythan CC, West Lothian Clarion, Scottish Borders and Deeside Thistle have 100% records , but they were all or nothing :P
Audax Ecosse, Edinburgh RC and Highland CTC all lost 1 rider


FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2019, 02:52:50 pm »

At club level it doesn't seem to let you build up a list of them in the same way you can of countries;
Ythan CC, West Lothian Clarion, Scottish Borders and Deeside Thistle have 100% records , but they were all or nothing :P
Audax Ecosse, Edinburgh RC and Highland CTC all lost 1 rider


Sorry sir, every time i take a blat at finding Scottish based riders I miss someone!
I only found out about the West Lothian Clarion rider as the jersey rose out of the grass from a snooze about 25m away from where I'd stopped for a pish after descending the roc on the return.

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2019, 03:37:48 pm »
Here the data used for my videos : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G4WiLxhEB2qzfTkP25YCoCGwsGknWVFOMqAEfWj5gPk/edit?usp=sharing
I removed name for GDPR.
Sadly, I've not included country during data scraping...

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2019, 05:45:37 pm »
The last recorded OTL in the pbpresults site is 96:15:19 (page 156) so the timing equipment must have been left running till then which is about 1700 Thursday as you say but not as "fair" for group V starters as it would only be 92 hours for them, disadvantage for later starters, will have to remember that for 2023.

Only if you enter planning to fail.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2019, 10:43:31 pm »
I agree with FF. Worrying about how your ride gets recorded if you don’t finish in time is almost pointless. Finishing PBP inside time is very much the intent. Just let the cards fall as they may, if you don't finish inside your time limit.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2019, 11:19:55 pm »

Reminds me of a "conversation" (or perhaps a monlogue) I overheard part of while scoffing food outside the Carefour City;
woman with a distinctly southern english accent bellowing out "You know many of the men don't want their wife here"

Actually, I was of the opposite view and I wanted my wife to see the start so that she had some idea of how big an event PBP was, why I was back for a third time and why I spent so much time preparing for it.
Compared to St Quinten and the velodrome starts the Sheepfold was a bit tame - no commentary or music, smaller crowd etc. so it didn't quite achieve that.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2019, 03:23:15 pm »
My only experience of PBP as a hanger-on (in 2007) was very negative.  Non-participants were rigorously excluded from the stadium and start compound before and during the event including all the registration etc.  I could only go to the shopping centre and internet cafe and track my partner from there, and of course the tracking was far more rudimentary back then.
(I missed spectating the Start due to cycling some 30km out along the route to grab some nightfall action shots.)


  NB 2007
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Results in Excel format?
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2019, 03:48:31 pm »
The start was a bit of a shambles, certainly for group K who were basically told "We're running about 5 minutes late so just go!"
so wouldn't say you missed much.