Author Topic: Cheating - maybe?  (Read 8843 times)

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2019, 05:43:18 pm »
I recall an illuminating conversation with a man in a Loudeac bar a couple of years ago, regarding his observations, as a commissaire, of stuff-that-went-on.

That's very cryptic.  Juicy detail please (if you can remember it)

That's not very likely is it?

Pah!    Now let me think...

It ranged from doping (which might be technically not illegal, not sure what ACP's rules are) to riding out of the control to a waiting camper-van and being whisked away into the distance.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2019, 07:29:08 pm »
bending rules rather than cheating - i've seen many bikes with aerobars clearly extending further than they should (i'm talking 5cm+). this would have saved me from tingly fingers - the price for sticking to the rules..

There is two ways legally round that one.

You can mount a rather rigid randonneur bag on the front that sticks out further and hold on to that one.

Or do like I did, mount a cross bar in between your tri bars and space them out a bit further so you get U shaped bars. You get to rest your wrists on the top bar to gain 10 cm or wrap your hands round them(one hand on top the other helps as wel) Completely legal and gets you a lot closer to normal tribar position. Surprisingly stable a well(did do a 600 try ou with just two of us)

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2019, 07:29:44 pm »

Pah!    Now let me think...

It ranged from doping (which might be technically not illegal, not sure what ACP's rules are) to riding out of the control to a waiting camper-van and being whisked away into the distance.

There were at least some doping controls this time, I believe

stefan

  • aka martin
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2019, 07:43:37 pm »

Pah!    Now let me think...

It ranged from doping (which might be technically not illegal, not sure what ACP's rules are) to riding out of the control to a waiting camper-van and being whisked away into the distance.

There were at least some doping controls this time, I believe

There was a guy outside the bike parking area in Carhaix merrily telling arriving riders to "turn left for doping control". It was only as I was leaving that I realised he was joking  ;D
Member no. 152 of La Société Adrian Hands

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2019, 07:53:58 pm »

Pah!    Now let me think...

It ranged from doping (which might be technically not illegal, not sure what ACP's rules are) to riding out of the control to a waiting camper-van and being whisked away into the distance.

There were at least some doping controls this time, I believe

There was a guy outside the bike parking area in Carhaix merrily telling arriving riders to "turn left for doping control". It was only as I was leaving that I realised he was joking  ;D

Ha Ha, he started that when I was getting ready to set off.
(Pointing to the control) Control, Control, Austrailien..... Control Doping....
He then kept it up after that


I did accidentally ask for a Coke in a Tabac on the retour.
The kid who asked what I was wanting didn't seem to know that Coke(ain) would be incredibly handy for staying awake and wired for this sort of thing.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2019, 02:13:29 am »

We're quite happy to act as neutral support. It's like any activity, experience tells, and there are people who know that we'll have a basic medical kit and sunscreen. There are obviously boundaries we won't cross. It's one reason why we've never set out to follow individual riders, so as to avoid the temptation to help the story along.

We end up performing all manner of roles. Some will have spotted me directing riders next to the dodgy turn at the Bar Patton in St Meen le Grand on the return. That's also where we picked up our souvenir direction sign, an outbound Brest one, which we'd used as a prop for a shot of riders passing the Disney-style  Hotel de Ville.

Thanks again for giving me a USB cable by the Ambrieres-les-Vallees bridge on the way back in 2015. (-;

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2019, 08:26:27 pm »

Pah!    Now let me think...

It ranged from doping (which might be technically not illegal, not sure what ACP's rules are) to riding out of the control to a waiting camper-van and being whisked away into the distance.

There were at least some doping controls this time, I believe

There was a guy outside the bike parking area in Carhaix merrily telling arriving riders to "turn left for doping control". It was only as I was leaving that I realised he was joking  ;D

Oh dear me how I laughed at this fella. Not so much at the doping pun. More at how amused he seemed to be about his hilarious Schtick  ;D

LMT

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2019, 09:02:16 pm »
With respect to audax it's not cheating, cheating is sport in gaining an unfair advantage over your competitors and seeing as audax is non competitive then I can't see how it is cheating.

Rule breaking for sure though and more agro than it's worth imo.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2019, 09:14:08 pm »
I'd say not having to do the whole ride counts as an unfair advantage.  They've probably still got working neck/fingers/toes/arse/etc.   ;D
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2019, 10:11:48 pm »
With respect to audax it's not cheating, cheating is sport in gaining an unfair advantage over your competitors and seeing as audax is non competitive then I can't see how it is cheating.

Rule breaking for sure though and more agro than it's worth imo.

PBP exists partly to demonstrate the suitability of machines and equipment. So we get machines that cost as much as a car, machines that invite people to throw bricks, nostalgia-tinged throwbacks, bikes with small wheels, and luggage that makes it difficult to access the stuff you need at 2am in the middle of nowhere. It's good to know that these can finish without nefarious intervention.


Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2019, 10:12:53 pm »
I jokingly said at the end to some people who queried the odd finish at the end, that when you went under the finishing "kite" at Rambouillet on the cobblestones followed by the additional circuit of the courtyard, also on cobblestones, that tucked away somewhere was some officials who watched how much you grimaced on the cobblestones or had to stand up through having a sore backside that they could spot anyone who had cheated.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2019, 10:25:14 pm »
I jokingly said at the end to some people who queried the odd finish at the end, that when you went under the finishing "kite" at Rambouillet on the cobblestones followed by the additional circuit of the courtyard, also on cobblestones, that tucked away somewhere was some officials who watched how much you grimaced on the cobblestones or had to stand up through having a sore backside that they could spot anyone who had cheated.

It's a bit similar to a remark I made when the site was presented, one of the stretches of cobbles could be used at the bikecheck to check if all items are securely fastened to the bike, let the rider ride over cobbles with a minimum time to complete it. Any item that falls off means you don't pass the bikecheck;).

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2019, 12:25:16 am »
I'd say not having to do the whole ride counts as an unfair advantage.  They've probably still got working neck/fingers/toes/arse/etc.   ;D

Too feckin' right. I definitely cheated.

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2019, 01:43:20 am »
I jokingly said at the end to some people who queried the odd finish at the end, that when you went under the finishing "kite" at Rambouillet on the cobblestones followed by the additional circuit of the courtyard, also on cobblestones, that tucked away somewhere was some officials who watched how much you grimaced on the cobblestones or had to stand up through having a sore backside that they could spot anyone who had cheated.

The finish was horrific. I now understand the meaning of debacle. I came in around 1300 and there were hundreds of oblivious people walking, riding, and driving on the road to the finish before and during the cobblestones, then the bonus gravel/cobble stretch to the timer, and the unguided trip to bike storage and the hike to the tent, before being jettisoned into the food line. It boggles my mind that someone though this was a good safe way to finish a 1200. It rivals the single male and female bathrooms at one of the controls, Tinteniac was it? Plenty for 6000 riders to pass through twice in 3 days.  I love the ride but sometimes it is very frustrating.  I miss the gymnasium in SQY.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2019, 12:11:39 pm »
With respect to audax it's not cheating, cheating is sport in gaining an unfair advantage over your competitors and seeing as audax is non competitive then I can't see how it is cheating.

Rule breaking for sure though and more agro than it's worth imo.

IMHO, it devalues the efforts of those who do complete the whole ride in the required time limits (plus allowances for good Samaritans etc...)

Some people will have devoted a year or more of their life to complete this ride. It'll be the only one they ever do, the hardest thing they've ever done, and something they will cherish. Knowing others have done it with a electric motor, or with the assistance of a camper van, devalues those who completed it.

Doping is an interesting one, especially as many of us aren't actually aware of just what is on the WADA lists as both controlled substances and as banned. Took too much sudofed because you picked up a cold on the way to the start, could put you over the limit. With 6000 people doing the ride, I have no doubt that if you tested every single one of them you'd get at least some hits for controlled substances.

Motor doping seems a weird one, how do you actually carry enough battery for 1200km? Do you have a support crew bringing you recharged units?

Hitch hiking bits between controls and still claiming a finish is just taking the piss...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2019, 12:33:53 pm »
Breaking the rules and expecting to be validated is one thing. 
if you actually intend to do it, you are depriving someone else of a chance to ride.
Even so, I don't see how cheating can be said to devalue the efforts of someone who doesn't cheat.  Piss them off, maybe, but probably not, generally speaking.  If I'd got round PBP fairly, I don't think I'd care at all about someone who used assistance.  I'll probably never meet them, especially since they will have gone home by the time I've recovered the powers of movement and speech.

Cheating may be a problem for the validating officials but I don't think it should make non-cheaters feel bad - rather the opposite.  In any case, when you tell a member of the public that you completed PBP, they are going to say, "What's PBP?" not "Ah, but some of them cheat, don't they?!"

Peter

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2019, 01:08:58 pm »
Motor doping seems a weird one, how do you actually carry enough battery for 1200km? Do you have a support crew bringing you recharged units?

A single battery small enough to be hidden under a velomobile fairing is probably enough, not for riding 1200km on the motor alone, but for giving you that small boost up the hills that will make a huge difference!

A

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2019, 01:18:35 pm »
Motor doping seems a weird one, how do you actually carry enough battery for 1200km? Do you have a support crew bringing you recharged units?

A single battery small enough to be hidden under a velomobile fairing is probably enough, not for riding 1200km on the motor alone, but for giving you that small boost up the hills that will make a huge difference!

A

A velomobile would probably be an ideal candidate for a bit of regenerative braking.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2019, 01:19:44 pm »
You could say the opposite; that some people felt it necessary to use a motor, hitch a lift or whatever, shows all the more how impressive is the feat of riding round only using "human muscular effort".
sideways bounding monkey lounging under fruit tree

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small just Far Away at the back
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2019, 01:20:09 pm »
Doping is an interesting one, especially as many of us aren't actually aware of just what is on the WADA lists as both controlled substances and as banned. Took too much sudofed because you picked up a cold on the way to the start, could put you over the limit. With 6000 people doing the ride, I have no doubt that if you tested every single one of them you'd get at least some hits for controlled substances.

Speak to Alain Baxter about that one, taking Vicks finished his career.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2019, 02:16:13 pm »
With respect to audax it's not cheating, cheating is sport in gaining an unfair advantage over your competitors and seeing as audax is non competitive then I can't see how it is cheating.

Rule breaking for sure though and more agro than it's worth imo.

IMHO, it devalues the efforts of those who do complete the whole ride in the required time limits (plus allowances for good Samaritans etc...)

Some people will have devoted a year or more of their life to complete this ride. It'll be the only one they ever do, the hardest thing they've ever done, and something they will cherish. Knowing others have done it with a electric motor, or with the assistance of a camper van, devalues those who completed it.

Doping is an interesting one, especially as many of us aren't actually aware of just what is on the WADA lists as both controlled substances and as banned. Took too much sudofed because you picked up a cold on the way to the start, could put you over the limit. With 6000 people doing the ride, I have no doubt that if you tested every single one of them you'd get at least some hits for controlled substances.

Motor doping seems a weird one, how do you actually carry enough battery for 1200km? Do you have a support crew bringing you recharged units?

Hitch hiking bits between controls and still claiming a finish is just taking the piss...

J


I lean towards QG's opinion, mostly. Motorhomes at controls are fine; between controls, not. Cheating is 'not following the rules', regardless of whether you are talking about a sport, a game or a pastime. It sticks in the craw if others 'claim the glory' of an unearned finish.

I understand that some military folk look down on random people wearing unearned medals. What do you think about that situation Peter?

The ACP have a mechanism to forever refuse entries from individuals for any of their events for egregious behaviour. Using motor vehicles between controls to avoid riding the full distance but claiming validation would count as egregious behaviour IMHO.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2019, 02:31:59 pm »
With respect to audax it's not cheating, cheating is sport in gaining an unfair advantage over your competitors and seeing as audax is non competitive then I can't see how it is cheating.

Rule breaking for sure though and more agro than it's worth imo.

IMHO, it devalues the efforts of those who do complete the whole ride in the required time limits (plus allowances for good Samaritans etc...)

Some people will have devoted a year or more of their life to complete this ride. It'll be the only one they ever do, the hardest thing they've ever done, and something they will cherish. Knowing others have done it with a electric motor, or with the assistance of a camper van, devalues those who completed it.

Doping is an interesting one, especially as many of us aren't actually aware of just what is on the WADA lists as both controlled substances and as banned. Took too much sudofed because you picked up a cold on the way to the start, could put you over the limit. With 6000 people doing the ride, I have no doubt that if you tested every single one of them you'd get at least some hits for controlled substances.

Motor doping seems a weird one, how do you actually carry enough battery for 1200km? Do you have a support crew bringing you recharged units?

Hitch hiking bits between controls and still claiming a finish is just taking the piss...

J


I lean towards QG's opinion, mostly. Cheating is 'not following the rules', regardless of whether you are talking about a sport, a game or a pastime. It sticks in the craw if others 'claim the glory' of an unearned finish. I understand that some military folk take down on random people wearing unearned medals. What do you think about that situation Peter?

The ACP have a mechanism to forever refuse entries from individuals for any of their events for egregious behaviour. Using motor vehicles between controls to avoid riding the full distance but claiming validation would count as egregious behaviour IMHO.

Oh, yes D>  What I meant was that what others do wouldn't diminish my own satisfaction.    I don't like people wearing unearned medals and for the same reason I don't like people wearing world champion jerseys or even trade team jerseys (unless they are Molteno!).  And I certainly don't like sandpaper - but am not averse to assistance from incompetent umpires!

Peter

PS I can also understand that people who are "racing" (and many on PBP are racing to a certain extent) would feel irritated to appear to be further down the field than they might otherwise be.  But the clock is the real opponent.  Certainly I don't like dishonesty - in anything - but I'm a lesser mortal than many on here and would be absolutely thrilled to have got round - and, no, I wouldn't have cheated in order to finish.  I'm from the "leave me here in the gulch with a gun in every hand" school!

Peter

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2019, 02:35:57 pm »
No arguments about sandpaper. Cheating pure and simple.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2019, 02:40:41 pm »
Ha!  So is raising the seam (or was it rubbing soil in?) a la Atherton!  "Pure cheating" - a concept for the philosophers?

Re: Cheating - maybe?
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2019, 02:46:56 pm »


A velomobile would probably be an ideal candidate for a bit of regenerative braking.

I'd be quite happy to see regenerative braking, and a motor. As long as the battery starts at 0 volts, the criteria for being powered solely by human effort is satisfied. A redesigned hub dynamo would work well. It would work especially well for timid descenders.