Author Topic: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank  (Read 14788 times)

Gasman

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #225 on: December 22, 2019, 09:23:02 pm »
I read an article some years ago about the USA experience of such vehicles.  A big reason for their popularity was that they were classed as trucks and were therefore cheaper than cars as they didn't have to conform to the same safety standards.  Trucks could also be purchased as business vehicles and set against tax.  They were classed as trucks on the basis of the 'kerbside axle weight' (or some similar phrase); a notional value for the vehicle with a full load of passengers and cargo.  The author then pointed out that in many residential areas access to trucks is banned or severely restricted so it was perfectly feasible for local authorities to keep large SUVs off these streets.  What's more, with 'truck' again being defined by the kerbside axle weight, those who would inevitably argue that, since it never actually exceeded this limit, their vehicle should be allowed unrestricted road access could be given the equally reasonable response,
"In that case, PAY YOUR TAX!"
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mattc

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #226 on: December 23, 2019, 11:25:11 am »
My understanding is that the MOAR ke, the more potential for injury and the greater the braking distance...
Having a low vehicle means that injuries tend to be less, or to more easily fixed parts of the body, which favours the lower and usually lighter cars, as well as the reduction in kinetic energy.

The kinetic energy makes less difference when there is loads of it. A car isn't slowed much when it hits a pedestrian, so having more energy makes little difference. The height is the big deal, as it alters how fast energy is transferred to the pedestrian, so what force is applied.

Braking distance isn't much affected by the car mass, as the more mass, the more weight so more friction is available, given the all post 2004 cars have ABS, so can maximise the friction on all the wheels. Braking distance goes up as the square of speed, so in that way the kinetic energy makes a big difference.
Makes sense to me. (but then I've only got a physics degree, what do I know ... )
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #227 on: December 23, 2019, 05:37:33 pm »
Another big reason for their popularity in the US was their being marketed with the implication that you need an SUV to be a 'man', or somesuch nonsense.
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #228 on: December 23, 2019, 05:55:44 pm »
Another big reason for their popularity in the US was their being marketed with the implication that you need an SUV to be a 'man', or somesuch nonsense.
I'd say that was pick-ups rather than a true SUV.  When I lived there a work mate had a big pick-up that did less than 10mpg.  I asked him "why?"  He said that as a householder he needed to be able to carry sheets of sheetrock walling about.  I asked when he had needed to do that. The answer came back "not yet, but I might".

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #229 on: December 23, 2019, 05:59:49 pm »
Ah, you're right. Pick-ups, but I can see where having a stack of them on the road would lead not quite so influenceable people to choosing to buy something equally huuuuuge.
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fuzzy (retd.) AAGE

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #230 on: December 29, 2019, 10:12:14 am »
Another big reason for their popularity in the US was their being marketed with the implication that you need an SUV to be a 'man', or somesuch nonsense.

Don't expect sensible reasoning from the USA. I mean, look at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, DC.........
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #231 on: December 29, 2019, 02:05:18 pm »
On my one and only visit to DC, mind, I was surprised at how titchy the White House is compared with Missis Kwin's abode in London's famous London :D
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ian

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #232 on: January 02, 2020, 04:00:09 pm »
Yes, but the White House goes deep down underground, down to the caverns of the Illuminati and, of course, the ZOG. They're currently building a bigger fence around it, presumably to keep Donald either in or out.

I read the other day that BMW now have a model painted in Vantablack (basically the blackest, non-reflective pigment in scalable production, absorbs of 99.965% of incident light). Notwithstanding it's probably a marketing gimmick and they apparently had to adulterate the paint to generate a degree of reflectivity (now only ~98%), that seems genius-level stupid.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #233 on: January 02, 2020, 04:03:16 pm »
Yes, but the White House goes deep down underground, down to the caverns of the Illuminati and, of course, the ZOG. They're currently building a bigger fence around it, presumably to keep Donald either in or out.
Or for Corbyn to sit on?
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ElyDave

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #234 on: January 04, 2020, 08:07:52 am »
Yes, but the White House goes deep down underground, down to the caverns of the Illuminati and, of course, the ZOG. They're currently building a bigger fence around it, presumably to keep Donald either in or out.

I read the other day that BMW now have a model painted in Vantablack (basically the blackest, non-reflective pigment in scalable production, absorbs of 99.965% of incident light). Notwithstanding it's probably a marketing gimmick and they apparently had to adulterate the paint to generate a degree of reflectivity (now only ~98%), that seems genius-level stupid.

Is that what Hotblack Desiato used?
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #235 on: January 04, 2020, 01:35:34 pm »
It's like, how much more black could this be?  And the answer is none.  None more black!

Oh...
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #236 on: January 04, 2020, 04:57:23 pm »
It's like, how much more black could this be?  And the answer is none.  None more black!

Oh...

0.035% or more accurately (1/0.99965-1)%, but it comes to pretty much the same thing - not much blacker

Why did they add reflectivity?

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #237 on: January 04, 2020, 05:01:01 pm »
Or I suppose you could look at the amount of light reflected and then you cna go much darker

https://www.dezeen.com/2019/09/24/blackest-black-mit-material-news-vantablack/

10 times blacker

I suppose people might fall over it in the dark...

ian

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #238 on: January 06, 2020, 10:03:30 am »
It's like, how much more black could this be?  And the answer is none.  None more black!

Oh...

0.035% or more accurately (1/0.99965-1)%, but it comes to pretty much the same thing - not much blacker

Why did they add reflectivity?

I'd like to say 'road safety' but I expect to reduce the chances of people driving into it when it's parked.
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fuzzy (retd.) AAGE

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #239 on: January 06, 2020, 11:22:13 pm »
If you study video of counter terror units in action, you will see that they are generally dressed in shades of grey or green. Black was used by the likes of the SAS for a while until it was realised that black shows up better at night than grey. Night isn't truly dark so, to dark adapted eyes, the total absence of colour that black becomes at night is easier to spot.

Therefore, driving a blacker than black car is a safety feature. Or something.
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #240 on: January 06, 2020, 11:26:04 pm »
That is mentioned in one of the later books in the Swallows & Amazons series. Something about your eyes learning to detect the blacker blackness that is an enemy ship at night. Although battleships are grey not black. Which must be so they don't show up at night.
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #241 on: January 07, 2020, 09:19:28 am »
Would a properly non-reflective be effective for shape camouflage - as gets used to make it hard to photograph new body shapes? Actual camo tends to attract attention, in a way that black doesn't.

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ian

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #242 on: January 07, 2020, 09:29:09 am »
Camouflage works against a background and not necessarily by looking like that background (wildcats, for instance, aren't green and brown) but by breaking up or confusing visual cues.

Urban streets are most characterised, after dark, by street lights and various forms of bright illumination. I doubt having a nearly completely absorbent vehicle is a bright idea. The drivers should, of course, be forced to wrap their vehicles in hi-viz after dark.
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #243 on: January 07, 2020, 11:48:08 am »
That is mentioned in one of the later books in the Swallows & Amazons series. Something about your eyes learning to detect the blacker blackness that is an enemy ship at night. Although battleships are grey not black. Which must be so they don't show up at night.

I believe the the Japanese navy did a major study between the wars that showed that all black ships were fairly visible at night. In any case naval camo is less about making the ship invisible (hard to hide a battleship that's 750 feet long weighs 40000 tons and is probably belching black smoke from its funnels) more about breaking up the outline to stop the enemy getting the accurate estimation of speed course and range that's necessary to be able to drop a shell on you.
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quixoticgeek

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #244 on: January 07, 2020, 01:14:43 pm »
I believe the the Japanese navy did a major study between the wars that showed that all black ships were fairly visible at night. In any case naval camo is less about making the ship invisible (hard to hide a battleship that's 750 feet long weighs 40000 tons and is probably belching black smoke from its funnels) more about breaking up the outline to stop the enemy getting the accurate estimation of speed course and range that's necessary to be able to drop a shell on you.

You say that, I once failed to find a 15000 ton battleship while following a piece of string that was attached to it...

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #245 on: January 07, 2020, 10:56:39 pm »
I believe the the Japanese navy did a major study between the wars that showed that all black ships were fairly visible at night. In any case naval camo is less about making the ship invisible (hard to hide a battleship that's 750 feet long weighs 40000 tons and is probably belching black smoke from its funnels) more about breaking up the outline to stop the enemy getting the accurate estimation of speed course and range that's necessary to be able to drop a shell on you.

You say that, I once failed to find a 15000 ton battleship while following a piece of string that was attached to it...

J

If it was only 15,000 tons QG, I doubt it was a battleship. Battlecruiser maybe ?  ;)


fuzzy (retd.) AAGE

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #246 on: January 07, 2020, 11:03:53 pm »
The art of concealment is to work on SSSSM- Shape, Shine, Shadow, Shilouette and Movement.

Sticking bits of foliage in your combat helmet, webbing or over your Main Battle Tank is as much about breaking up the shape of the thing to be concealed as making it blend in to the background. Camo nets with lots of scrim, snipers ghillie suits, scrim nets over heads and shoulders, disruptive paint pattern or uniform patter are also to disguise shape

Camouflage cream/ paint for combatants and hessian over glass is to reduce shine (Regimental Seargeant Majors go apeshit if you have mucky boots on parade. Likewise, they go absofuckinglutley ballistic if your APC is gleaming and shiny on the battlefield. You can't win against a proper RSM).

Hessian rolls on vehicles that are deployed to hang down to the ground over wheel arches and between wheels or skirts that conceal the area between the top of tank tracks and the chassis are to hide areas of unnaturaly shaped shadow.

Not driving or walking along ridge lines, crossing ridge lines/ hill tops in a standing position etc are to reduce being shilouetted against the sky.

Reduced movement reduces the chance of detection. Alien stillness does so as well. A bush moving in an otherwise still environment will likely be investigated as a potential fidgety squaddie. A completely static area in an otherwise windblown woodline will likewise be investigated (or subjected to probing fire) as a possible enemy.

There is a lot of thought and skill that goes into being a Rough, Tough, Hard to Bluff, Lean, Mean Fighting Machine.
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #247 on: January 08, 2020, 12:07:37 am »
Camouflage works against a background and not necessarily by looking like that background (wildcats, for instance, aren't green and brown) but by breaking up or confusing visual cues.

It's all just $generic_poo_colour to us dichromats, which covers most prey animals...
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #249 on: January 12, 2020, 11:15:21 am »
10mpg doesn't sound that bad for a Hummer, assuming those are the 0.8-sized US gallons.   With my annual mileage, that would only be £500/year on petrol.  I'm not sure one would fit on the drive, though, let alone down the road when all the morons have parked opposite each other on care home visiting day.
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