Spa Aubisque

[sojournermike]

I've not had any problems with HyRds, but they don't do a lot of miles. Set up is a bit finnicky in terms of cable pull and the lever travel is a bit too much, but they have worked consistently and well for me. However, I suspect that for a high mileage bike, that long lever travel could commute into challenges as the pads wear over time.

[bludger]

I see that you have a Kona with discs, it looks great, but are they not being made anymore, I can't seem to find any shops selling them

yeah I think Kona struggled to sell them hence the reduction from £1800 to £1100. The clearances were to narrow for 'gravel' but the 853 steel and relaxed geometry made it out of favour with speed demons. Everyone else's loss imo.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I see that you have a Kona with discs, it looks great, but are they not being made anymore, I can't seem to find any shops selling them

yeah I think Kona struggled to sell them hence the reduction from £1800 to £1100. The clearances were to narrow for 'gravel' but the 853 steel and relaxed geometry made it out of favour with speed demons. Everyone else's loss imo.

Was that the Roadhouse? Wheelhouse? Something like that?

[grams]

that long lever travel could commute into challenges as the pads wear over time.

The hydraulic system is supposed to compensate for pad wear. However it only works if you let the master cylinder fully return so that the valve opens to let a little more hydrualic fluid in from the reservoir. If you overtighten the cable such that it doesn't fully return, that valve doesn't open and you have a system that can't self-adjust.
 
(Of course, that's still no worse than a mechanical brake calliper that has no concept of self-adjustment...)

[bludger]

I see that you have a Kona with discs, it looks great, but are they not being made anymore, I can't seem to find any shops selling them

yeah I think Kona struggled to sell them hence the reduction from £1800 to £1100. The clearances were to narrow for 'gravel' but the 853 steel and relaxed geometry made it out of favour with speed demons. Everyone else's loss imo.

Was that the Roadhouse? Wheelhouse? Something like that?

wheelhouse https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=111306.0

[andrew_s]

8 vs 12 kg might sound a lot, but when you include your body weight it’s more like 70 vs 74 kg, for which you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference in climbing speed without a stopwatch.

It's a bit more noticeable in total time, so S2L's 80 minute ascent of the Aubisque would have taken (74/70)*80 = 84 min 35 sec on the heavier bike (assuming the weights are correct).
 
If you are just going for a ride, the difference is of no significance.
If you're in a race, going for bragging rights on Strava, or trying to keep up with someone who's a bit faster than you, you may take a different view.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'm not sure I agree with that. A lighter bike feels very different to ride. The difference between an empty Barley and no Barley is less than 1kg (just 591g according to Carradice) but it definitely makes a difference to the feel of the bike. I'm not saying it makes any difference to speed under anything other than 100% racing effort, but speed isn't always the main thing. And you'll definitely notice the 4kg difference above when lifting the bike over a gate, onto a train's dangly hook, putting it in the boot of a car, etc.

[S2L]

Nobody cares how long it takes to go up the Aubisque... what I care about is how I feel when I am doing it... when going uphill with the 12 kg Croix de Fer I can't really say that I was enjoying myself...

The reason why many (most?) randonneurs curse climbs is because of excessive weight... being that body weight and/or bicycle weight. You don't see many big randonneurs chasing AAA points, so clearly it is not a matter of a minute or two difference

[pdm]

Don't know about that...
I do almost all my riding in the Peak District. ~50-150km rides with ~1000-2500m climbing; gradients 2%-22%. Usually climb about 150,000m per year. I do not chase points of any sort...
An average "long" hill here is ~6km, climbing ~250m; "shorter" hills are steeper.
The difference between my Ti "light" bike (9.6kg) and comfortable steel "distance" bike (12kg) is about 15-20 seconds on a "long" climb. (I weigh 95kg, 190cm tall)
I think there are other factors than weight that also affect the feel of a bike. Stiffness, handling, perceived power transfer, position, etc. My "light "and "long distance" bikes feel about the same. My Tourer (13kg) feels and is s little slower and heavier, less responsive (even unloaded) but is very good for eating flattish comfortable miles.
Climbing is all in the mind - you will get to the top in the end - enjoy it while you can.
My technique is to set a sustainable effort level - usually about 220-250 watts and enjoy the scenery; the top of the hill arrives 10-20 minutes later...
"There are no such things as hills - just slow and fast flat bits..."

[S2L]

I actually enjoy the pain of going uphill hard, accelerating out of a hairpin, going on the pedals to catch that other guy in front, dropping that other guy behind... I really enjoy all of that, which is only possible if your setup is light (and you have good aerobic fitness). Adding 4 kg of un-necessary iron makes the all experience duller (I need to find an extra 16 Watts to do the same things... not easy!) and crucially more tiring.
It seems to me you just switch off and enjoy the scenery, which is a very different way of doing things. You say 220-250 Watts... the former means I can have a basic chat while pedalling, the latter means I am on my aerobic limit (I am quite a bit lighter than you)... only 30 Watts, but big difference.

But the bigger question is why getting a 12 kg bike whe nan 8 kg bike does the same job better? The only good reasons are racks and panniers... do people really carry panniers in an Audax these days? Maybe 1000 km+ UNSUPPORTED Audax require that level of luggage, but how many do unsupported multiday events? (and I don't mean an x-rated 600)

[Paul H]

.. do people really carry panniers in an Audax these days?

Not many, those that used to have largely come to the conclusion it's no longer for them, you win.

[bludger]

I do see panniers about. Often just a single one. Presumably these are bikes that do double duty for Audax, touring, commuting etc.

[grams]

I did PBP with a pannier. My rack weighs in the same ballpark as a Carradice Bagman. The unnecessary junk inside the pannier, however...

I think your underestimating the on-the-road weight of most audax bikes. 8 kg and below is quite hard to achieve on a standard build geared bike. I’d reckon most are nearer 10 kg, even before audax accoutrements like racks, dynamos and lights. It’s why most manufacturers are quite shy about telling you.

[S2L]

I did PBP with a pannier. My rack weighs in the same ballpark as a Carradice Bagman. The unnecessary junk inside the pannier, however...

I think your underestimating the on-the-road weight of most audax bikes. 8 kg and below is quite hard to achieve on a standard build geared bike. I’d reckon most are nearer 10 kg, even before audax accoutrements like racks, dynamos and lights. It’s why most manufacturers are quite shy about telling you.

Of course my bike is 11 once is on the road with bottles, electrics and electronics and a saddle bag, but equally a 12 kg bike becomes 15.

[Oscar's dad]

I am not quite sure why anyone would call "Aubisque" a bike that weighs 12.5 Kg. I have ridden up the Col d'Aubisque... on an 8 kg bike I should add, wouldn't want to do it on a cast iron thing.
If you want a triple chainset, that's fine, but why going for these very heavy bikes?

Pfft.... I've ridden up Col d'Aubisque on a Long Haul Trucker. Fully loaded! It was fine. Although Strava shows that I was one of the slowest ever to do so. I blame the weather though 

I have a Surly Disc Trucker and have ridden up Alpine climbs without any problem, albeit without much load.  LHT and Disc Truckers aren't the lightest of bikes but never ride like a heavy bike.  I have two sets of wheels for mine, lighter and bomb proof, its like having two bikes!  Both the LHT and Disc Trucker are fine for audaxing but you can also load them with oodles of kit and they are still a joy to ride.

BTW, bobb is being modest.  Not only has he done long distance, fully loaded tours on his LHT, he's also successfully ridden the PBP on it!

[mike]

I loved riding my Trucker fully loaded but found it a bit dull around town, so I swapped it for a crosscheck which isnt *quite* so good at touring but way more fun for long rides.  I'm investing in a second set of bling(er) wheels with quicker, lighter tyres so I can do some audax on it in the spring.