Author Topic: Tour de France 2020  (Read 9411 times)

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2020, 06:17:41 pm »
Don't think Cavendish will be chosen to ride the tour either. He wasn't even contesting the sprint
win in his last two races (even when he did make it to the pointy end of the stages). Demare,
Ewen and Bennett were there though.

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2020, 07:00:48 pm »
Let's not exaggerate. Zoetemelk was 33 when he won the Tour de France  (2 years younger than Froome currently is). However, he did win the world championship at 38.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2020, 07:37:44 pm »
Cadel Evans was 34 when he won the 2011 Tour, the oldest winner in modern times. Oldest ever was Firmin Lambot in 1922 at 36.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Porkins

  • Formerly Nick H. And a long time ago etc, Eurostar
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2020, 08:59:54 pm »
Ineos will have Grenadier branding for the Tour. Hard to think of a more obnoxious sponsor. Even Sky was less shit.

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2020, 09:55:23 pm »
Ineos and Jim Ratcliffe don't have a great reputation for kindness in industrial relations.  Mind you, Froome's next outfit is sponsored by an Israeli business promotion outfit.  I doubt they'll sell as many team tops as they did when they were Alpecin.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2020, 04:24:47 am »
Apparently Froome or his agents disrespected Ineos in contract negotiations, so this could be revenge.  Jim Ratcliffe is not someone you want to cross.  Little chance of Froome winning it again, as he's ancient in Grand Tour terms.

I don't think even his biggest fans would claim that Froome is in the form he needs to be in to win the Tour, and his comments since the announcement would suggest he's totally on board with the decision. Brailsford is focussed on one thing: winning the Tour. If he thought Froome was the man to do it, no amount of perceived disrespect during contract negotiations would stop him from putting Froome in the leadership position.

RichForrest

  • T'is I, Silverback.
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2020, 07:46:28 am »
Sivakov will be one to watch.
Maybe a bit inexperienced but the same was said about Bernal.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2020, 10:28:29 am »
Ineos will have Grenadier branding for the Tour. Hard to think of a more obnoxious sponsor. Even Sky was less shit.

There seems to be a lot of shit sponsors in pro cycling. Either human rights abusing regimes, or companies attempting the green wash. It's a real shame. Makes it hard to support many teams.

Please tell me Canyon or SRAM isn't some how evil too :(

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2020, 10:48:14 am »
Is Bethany still 10yo? I think we should be told.

Yes.  Yes, she is.  Until May 2021, apparently.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2020, 11:09:00 am »
Ineos and Jim Ratcliffe don't have a great reputation for kindness in industrial relations.  Mind you, Froome's next outfit is sponsored by an Israeli business promotion outfit.  I doubt they'll sell as many team tops as they did when they were Alpecin.

Jim Ratcliffe May have some influence as sponsor, but the team owner is a company which contracts, usually, with companies set up by the riders. It’s business, pure and simple. If a rider had a contract issue it would be between his/her company, usually represented by an agent,  and the holding company of the team ( some less high profile riders might just contract in their own right, but once pro many would at least use an agent).
In Froome’s case his agent/ representative and executive of his company (it’s highly likely he’ll have one for tax and pension purposes) is his wife. She has some history of being” robust” , and could have had views about his status and treatment going on past performance.

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2020, 11:38:02 am »
Ineos will have Grenadier branding for the Tour. Hard to think of a more obnoxious sponsor. Even Sky was less shit.

There seems to be a lot of shit sponsors in pro cycling. Either human rights abusing regimes, or companies attempting the green wash. It's a real shame. Makes it hard to support many teams.

Please tell me Canyon or SRAM isn't some how evil too :(

J
Sponsorship of cycling makes no commercial sense. You get far better value for money elsewhere. Those who would have bought super yachts (billionaires and dodgy regimes) are now buying cycling teams. I don’t think there is much motive other than showing off.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2020, 12:02:08 pm »
If you don't like a chemical company, a media company or an arm of the state of Israel sponsoring cycling teams, you're getting pretty darn picky.  Perhaps a Corbyn-Hamas team would restore the balance?

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2020, 12:04:26 pm »
It gets your The Product's name on the telly a lot, unless the colemantators keep referring to your team by its old name.  Yes, *** and Super D, YOU.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2020, 12:04:48 pm »
Is Bethany still 10yo? I think we should be told.

Yes.  Yes, she is.  Until May 2021, apparently.

A bit like Bart, Lisa and Maggie Simpson, she will never age
Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2020, 12:11:07 pm »
If you don't like a chemical company, a media company or an arm of the state of Israel sponsoring cycling teams, you're getting pretty darn picky.  Perhaps a Corbyn-Hamas team would restore the balance?

Cycling's chequered past has not endeared itself well to big name brands. Many will consider it too much of a risk in case Lance Armstrong Mk2 turns up somewhere. It will take a long time to clear it's reputation. Real or imagined. Until then we have to deal with somewhat less scrupulous involvement.
Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2020, 01:28:21 pm »
If you don't like a chemical company, a media company or an arm of the state of Israel sponsoring cycling teams, you're getting pretty darn picky.
Israel Startup Nation is owned by Sylvan Adams, it's not an arm of the Israeli state. He is a real-estate billionaire who moved to Israel in 2015 and has been promoting cycling there since (he's also won a bunch of world masters TT and track titles).
I can see why some people find it distasteful for a cycling team to be promoting a repressive regime (Astana, Bahrain, UAE), or greenwashing mining/polluting companies. They feel that it undermines the idea that cycling is an environmentally friendly transport solution that should be prioritised to help the planet, and these associations damage the brand. They might have a point, but pro cycle racing s a business, and greenwash is one of the main USPs. Aside from that, you mostly have lotteries (gambling sponsorship is a touchy subject), and holiday or DIY companies.

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2020, 01:58:49 pm »
Jim Ratcliffe May have some influence as sponsor
He is more than a sponsor. Team Sky/Ineos is setup as the company Tour Racing Limited, and that company was majority owned by Sky in the past and is now majority owned by Ineos. To a certain extent the riders contracts with Team Ineos are contracts with Jim Ratcliffe.

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2020, 02:49:35 pm »
Apparently the worst sponsor ever was ADR, who Greg LeMond says never paid him for winning the Tour in their kit.  Or anyone else that year.  They were a Belgian car rental firm.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2020, 02:52:19 pm »
If you don't like a chemical company, a media company or an arm of the state of Israel sponsoring cycling teams, you're getting pretty darn picky.
Israel Startup Nation is owned by Sylvan Adams, it's not an arm of the Israeli state. He is a real-estate billionaire who moved to Israel in 2015 and has been promoting cycling there since (he's also won a bunch of world masters TT and track titles).
I can see why some people find it distasteful for a cycling team to be promoting a repressive regime (Astana, Bahrain, UAE), or greenwashing mining/polluting companies. They feel that it undermines the idea that cycling is an environmentally friendly transport solution that should be prioritised to help the planet, and these associations damage the brand. They might have a point, but pro cycle racing s a business, and greenwash is one of the main USPs. Aside from that, you mostly have lotteries (gambling sponsorship is a touchy subject), and holiday or DIY companies.

I stand corrected.  Bunging Israel into the category of 'repressive regime' belongs in POBI though, just as if anyone wants to criticize any other legitimate nation state.  If I choose not to venture into POBI, I'd rather not read about people's hatred of particular countries on here.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2020, 03:33:30 pm »
Ineos will have Grenadier branding for the Tour. Hard to think of a more obnoxious sponsor. Even Sky was less shit.

There seems to be a lot of shit sponsors in pro cycling. Either human rights abusing regimes, or companies attempting the green wash. It's a real shame. Makes it hard to support many teams.

Please tell me Canyon or SRAM isn't some how evil too :(

J
Sponsorship of cycling makes no commercial sense. You get far better value for money elsewhere. Those who would have bought super yachts (billionaires and dodgy regimes) are now buying cycling teams. I don’t think there is much motive other than showing off.

Tax management? Like Hotblack Desiato?
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2020, 05:29:09 pm »
If you don't like a chemical company, a media company or an arm of the state of Israel sponsoring cycling teams, you're getting pretty darn picky.
Israel Startup Nation is owned by Sylvan Adams, it's not an arm of the Israeli state. He is a real-estate billionaire who moved to Israel in 2015 and has been promoting cycling there since (he's also won a bunch of world masters TT and track titles).
I can see why some people find it distasteful for a cycling team to be promoting a repressive regime (Astana, Bahrain, UAE), or greenwashing mining/polluting companies. They feel that it undermines the idea that cycling is an environmentally friendly transport solution that should be prioritised to help the planet, and these associations damage the brand. They might have a point, but pro cycle racing s a business, and greenwash is one of the main USPs. Aside from that, you mostly have lotteries (gambling sponsorship is a touchy subject), and holiday or DIY companies.

I stand corrected.  Bunging Israel into the category of 'repressive regime' belongs in POBI though, just as if anyone wants to criticize any other legitimate nation state.  If I choose not to venture into POBI, I'd rather not read about people's hatred of particular countries on here.
I agree that belongs in POBI, but I think you have jumped to conclusions somewhat there - as far as I can tell no-one named ISN as being part of the repressive regime crew (and that wasn't my intention - is anyone going to argue with Astana, Bahrain, UAE?).

And I think that sponsorship of cycling teams can make commercial sense in the right circumstance, even outside of greenwashing/sportswashing. Cycling is surprisingly cheap and has a global reach - Segafredo are probably paying less than the shirt sponsor of Bournemouth (data here: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/premier-league-shirt-sponsorship-201920-every-club-man-utd-arsenal-liverpool-chelsea-tottenham - 10 gambling companies!). We're definitely off topic on TdF 2020 though, so I'm going to stop polluting this thread.

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2020, 06:13:36 pm »
If you don't like a chemical company, a media company or an arm of the state of Israel sponsoring cycling teams, you're getting pretty darn picky.
Israel Startup Nation is owned by Sylvan Adams, it's not an arm of the Israeli state. He is a real-estate billionaire who moved to Israel in 2015 and has been promoting cycling there since (he's also won a bunch of world masters TT and track titles).
I can see why some people find it distasteful for a cycling team to be promoting a repressive regime (Astana, Bahrain, UAE), or greenwashing mining/polluting companies. They feel that it undermines the idea that cycling is an environmentally friendly transport solution that should be prioritised to help the planet, and these associations damage the brand. They might have a point, but pro cycle racing s a business, and greenwash is one of the main USPs. Aside from that, you mostly have lotteries (gambling sponsorship is a touchy subject), and holiday or DIY companies.

I stand corrected.  Bunging Israel into the category of 'repressive regime' belongs in POBI though, just as if anyone wants to criticize any other legitimate nation state.  If I choose not to venture into POBI, I'd rather not read about people's hatred of particular countries on here.

Ditto comments about Jeremy Corbyn and Hamas, wouldn't you say?

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2020, 07:34:14 pm »
Oh but Peter, I made no comment on the ethics of a Hamas-sponsored team, only that it would restore the balance!

If you don't like a chemical company, a media company or an arm of the state of Israel sponsoring cycling teams, you're getting pretty darn picky.
Israel Startup Nation is owned by Sylvan Adams, it's not an arm of the Israeli state. He is a real-estate billionaire who moved to Israel in 2015 and has been promoting cycling there since (he's also won a bunch of world masters TT and track titles).
I can see why some people find it distasteful for a cycling team to be promoting a repressive regime (Astana, Bahrain, UAE), or greenwashing mining/polluting companies. They feel that it undermines the idea that cycling is an environmentally friendly transport solution that should be prioritised to help the planet, and these associations damage the brand. They might have a point, but pro cycle racing s a business, and greenwash is one of the main USPs. Aside from that, you mostly have lotteries (gambling sponsorship is a touchy subject), and holiday or DIY companies.

I stand corrected.  Bunging Israel into the category of 'repressive regime' belongs in POBI though, just as if anyone wants to criticize any other legitimate nation state.  If I choose not to venture into POBI, I'd rather not read about people's hatred of particular countries on here.
I agree that belongs in POBI, but I think you have jumped to conclusions somewhat there - as far as I can tell no-one named ISN as being part of the repressive regime crew (and that wasn't my intention - is anyone going to argue with Astana, Bahrain, UAE?).

And I think that sponsorship of cycling teams can make commercial sense in the right circumstance, even outside of greenwashing/sportswashing. Cycling is surprisingly cheap and has a global reach - Segafredo are probably paying less than the shirt sponsor of Bournemouth (data here: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/premier-league-shirt-sponsorship-201920-every-club-man-utd-arsenal-liverpool-chelsea-tottenham - 10 gambling companies!). We're definitely off topic on TdF 2020 though, so I'm going to stop polluting this thread.

I wasn't aiming at you, I was quite impressed how you named everyone except Israel!  It was Rogerzilla who brought them up.  As for Kazakhstan, Bahrain and the UAE, they're not exactly the worst countries in the world.  The former two make it into the top 100 on the Human Freedom Index and the UAE and Israel have just made peace!

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2020, 09:53:57 pm »
I like a lot of things about the Israelis, just not their appropriation of Arab territory by force.  I certainly prefer them to the rest of the Middle East.  I don't think there'll be a roaring trade in replica kit though.  The brand is tainted.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Tour de France 2020
« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2020, 08:56:07 am »
Apparently the worst sponsor ever was ADR, who Greg LeMond says never paid him for winning the Tour in their kit.  Or anyone else that year.  They were a Belgian car rental firm.

There’s a lot of contenders in the worst team competition. TJ Cycles/ Glemp even worked over one of the sponsors ( Trevor Jarvis who built Flying Gate frames for the team). Belgium was awash with dodgy teams back in the 80s and beyond. Graham Webb, the last UK amateur world champion, wasn’t treated well when he turned pro.