Author Topic: Electric cars in bus lanes?  (Read 5118 times)

IanN

  • Voon
Electric cars in bus lanes?
« on: October 22, 2019, 01:55:55 pm »
Put here rather than Vroom because of the effect on cycling, but move if more appropriate there

So...    what passes for a government proposes that electric cars have green number plates (woo!), get free parking and potentially get access to bus lanes.

In my case, filling up the bus lane into town with electric cars would make my commute significantly more dangerous  ('coz e.g. electric Audis will still be driven by Audi drivers), and probably slower. If you avoid being stuck right behind an older bus, the bus lanes are the next best thing to cycling infrastructure round here.

Perhaps they could encourage electric car use by installing a viable network of charging points (the reason I bought petrol rather than electric).
Sorry. Silly me. They've spent all the money on operation makegovefeeluseful yellowhammer.


Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 02:06:46 pm »
It's effectively a measure to remove bus lanes, under cover of greenwash.

The number plate thing is pure bollocks.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 02:21:40 pm »
It's to try to hide the fact they took away all of the actual incentives for buying electric cars a few years ago.
Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 02:26:37 pm »
Stupid perk for rich people.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 02:31:52 pm »
Electric cars tend to weigh more than their petrol equivalents and generate more non-exhhaust particulate pollution due to heavy tyre wear. (Non-exhaust particulates are NOT a trivial issue!)

They are no smaller and take up the same space in traffic and parking.

NO, just NO!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 03:05:44 pm »
Seeing as you can in effect print your own UK number plate, I expect to see all sorts of dubious vehicles sporting green plates.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 03:12:44 pm »

Fuck no.

Sure create roads where dinosaur burners are banned, but call them roads...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 05:39:32 pm »
Electric cars tend to weigh more than their petrol equivalents and generate more non-exhhaust particulate pollution due to heavy tyre wear. (Non-exhaust particulates are NOT a trivial issue!)

The jury's still out on that one, the study that everyone points to being funded by a manufacturer of diesel engines and making some distinctly dodgy assumptions.

Yes, EVs tend to be a bit heavier (which means more road wear).  No, they don't necessarily produce *more* particulate pollution, due to the massive reduction in friction braking and the choice of tyre compounds usually being based on efficiency rather than grip.


Quote
They are no smaller and take up the same space in traffic and parking.

Indeed.  They're better than combustion engine motor vehicles, but they're still motor vehicles.

I do think there's some scope for banning combustion engines from certain areas and allowing EVs on local environmental grounds, but we shouldn't be compromising public transport (or active travel) to do it.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 05:56:45 pm »
If we want electric vehicles in bus lanes, we need to get hundreds (tens of thousands, even) of electric buses.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 06:18:30 pm »
If we want electric vehicles in bus lanes, we need to get hundreds (tens of thousands, even) of electric buses.

Very much this.

They seem to be making a decent effort in Nottingham and That London.  Birmingham has of course done its bit for the environment by signing up to replace its entire fleet with the mildest of diesel hybrids.  But it really couldn't come fast enough.

Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2019, 08:30:52 pm »
Greenwashing shitbuckets, that's what. Electric cars are made to make middle-class people feel better about themselves.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2019, 10:14:33 pm »
Private, ahead of public convenience.

Was it the Tories perchance who came up with this masterstroke ?

Wankers.
Rust never sleeps

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2019, 10:20:15 pm »
Private, ahead of public convenience.

Was it the Tories perchance who came up with this masterstroke ?

Wankers.
It couldn't possibly be designed to appeal to electric car owners in a general election, could it? Why, such a cynical attitude to the green intentions of the government is surely traitorous!
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2019, 10:36:45 pm »
I know no one likes to admit it, but there's nothing even remotely 'green' about an electric car.
!nataS pihsroW

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2019, 10:51:28 pm »
ian speaks too many truths.

I know no one likes to admit it, but there's nothing even remotely 'green' about an electric car.

Greenwashing shitbuckets, that's what. Electric cars are made to make middle-class people feel better about themselves.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2019, 12:01:04 am »
Private, ahead of public convenience.

Was it the Tories perchance who came up with this masterstroke ?

Wankers.
It couldn't possibly be designed to appeal to electric car owners in a general election, could it? Why, such a cynical attitude to the green intentions of the government is surely traitorous!

I thought it was just something to be in the news that wasn't brexit, but that works too.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2019, 07:15:29 am »
Electric cars tend to weigh more than their petrol equivalents and generate more non-exhhaust particulate pollution due to heavy tyre wear. (Non-exhaust particulates are NOT a trivial issue!)

They are no smaller and take up the same space in traffic and parking.

NO, just NO!

I'm believe that the non-exhaust particulates bit is not actually true as electric cars tend to use brakes less due to regen and tyre wear seems to be comparable to fossil burners.  I seem to recall seeing a number of articles thoroughly debunking the Clarkson/Daily Hate style claims.

However, I disagree with the green plate gimmick and clogging bus lanes.  Pedestrians on pavements or passengers in buses, tube or trains is still preferrable to wankers in panzers imo regardless of the propulsion system.

If government was genuinely serious it would do something positive rather than seek cheap PR plaudits.  It could try workplace car park charging, park and ride schemes and inner town/city congestion charging.  Oh, but think of the votes of the sadly inconvenienced ...

Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2019, 07:38:03 am »
I have zero faith in humanity suddenly deciding to walk/cycle/bus everywhere, and I don't think our cities should stink of diesel/petrol fumes, so I'd like everyone to switch to EVs ASAP.

Letting them into bus lanes is a load of old shit though.

If I had my druthers we'd already have stopping making new combustion engine cars - if you want to drive obsolete technology there's plenty of used ones to go around.

(Yeah, I've just puts thousands of out of work. Capitalism ruins everything.)

I'm believe that the non-exhaust particulates bit is not actually true as electric cars tend to use brakes less due to regen and tyre wear seems to be comparable to fossil burners.  I seem to recall seeing a number of articles thoroughly debunking the Clarkson/Daily Hate style claims.

The London Cycle Campaigner Bubble are also huge fans of this study. I do love the overlap.

Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2019, 07:39:55 am »
ian speaks too many truths.

I know no one likes to admit it, but there's nothing even remotely 'green' about an electric car.

Greenwashing shitbuckets, that's what. Electric cars are made to make middle-class people feel better about themselves.

To a degree yes but we are fast approaching that time of year when folk leave their car engines running at 04:30 waking the entire neighbourhood whilst their cars warm and defrost, merrily clogging the air with their nasty tailpipe emissions simply because they need to get to their warehouse jobs in a warm, demisted and thus safer to drive car.  An electric car would of course not make the same amount of noise pollution let alone belch out the noxious exhaust shite.

A street full of EV's instead of fossils would be a far far better place.

EV's naturally appeal to those who can or are willing to afford a conscience but as price parity gets ever closer (estimated for 2025) then running costs will become a significantly bigger factor in the purchase process than any thoughts of environmental conscience. 

PCP affordability will be the turning point and apparently the gap there is closing rapidly due to projected resale values of 2 to 5 year old EVs over their fossil burning brethren. 

Secondhand EV values have been rising for the last 18 months to the extent that you could have kept your car, used it as you normally would and it is worth more now than it was 18 months ago.  Even my climate change sceptic of a sister is considering replacing her ageing heap of a Nissan Almera? with a used 24kwh Leaf as it will do all that she needs and more at a fraction of the day-to-day running costs of the heap.

Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2019, 07:54:35 am »
You know I used to think this forum was great. Lots of lovely, funny people telling tales about the things we love and other stuff. Yes, it was a good place to be.

Greenwashing shitbuckets, that's what. Electric cars are made to make middle-class people feel better about themselves.

Sorry Ian, but I take offence at this comment. I own an electric car and purchased it because my old Smart car needed replacing and not to make myself feel good. I do not need material thing to make me feel better about myself, I know who I am and where I came from. All I have I have worked for, thankfully not very hard as despite having learning difficulties (I cannot spell for toffees and was in remedial classes for most of my school life) I am smart enough to take my chances as they came along. Perhaps I am now middle class but I still remember my roots: 9 of us in a small three bedroom house with my parents working five jobs between them. A week in a Caravan in Canvey were the only holidays we ever had.

Stupid perk for rich people.


Really? I am rich? Goes off to check savings account.... oh, it seems rich is four figures now days (I'll leave you to decide whether that includes or excludes the decimal point).

Yes, I earn more than the national average wage but frankly, it is likely that if you were to take an average of the earnings of people on here, I would earn less the figure calculated. We all make choices on what to spend our money on. I don't smoke, don't drink, don't eat meat, don't go on expensive holidays any more (too many cats!) and the like, so if I want to spend £250 a month on buying a car which should last me five years minimum before I replace it with the last car I am likely to ever need: can't see me doing much driving after 70, then that's what I'll do thank you very much.

Anyway, I have the 20m walk down my garden to my office/shed so please enjoy the day and if we can, can we be a little less judgemental about people and their choices please.

Oh finally, the Governments idea is stupid for more reasons than I can be bothered to outline.



Cats to the left of me, cats to the right of me, cats sitting on my keyboard making far more sense than I do.

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2019, 08:20:23 am »
If we want electric vehicles in bus lanes, we need to get hundreds (tens of thousands, even) of electric buses.

When I was a kid in Belfast, electric buses were exactly what we had, powered from overhead lines.  Then the council replaced them with second-hand Routemasters bought from London Transport.

Funny, innit?
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2019, 08:44:41 am »
Were those trolleys or trams, out of historical interest?
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2019, 08:54:42 am »
You know I used to think this forum was great. Lots of lovely, funny people telling tales about the things we love and other stuff. Yes, it was a good place to be.

Greenwashing shitbuckets, that's what. Electric cars are made to make middle-class people feel better about themselves.

Sorry Ian, but I take offence at this comment. I own an electric car and purchased it because my old Smart car needed replacing and not to make myself feel good. I do not need material thing to make me feel better about myself, I know who I am and where I came from. All I have I have worked for, thankfully not very hard as despite having learning difficulties (I cannot spell for toffees and was in remedial classes for most of my school life) I am smart enough to take my chances as they came along. Perhaps I am now middle class but I still remember my roots: 9 of us in a small three bedroom house with my parents working five jobs between them. A week in a Caravan in Canvey were the only holidays we ever had.

Stupid perk for rich people.


Really? I am rich? Goes off to check savings account.... oh, it seems rich is four figures now days (I'll leave you to decide whether that includes or excludes the decimal point).

Yes, I earn more than the national average wage but frankly, it is likely that if you were to take an average of the earnings of people on here, I would earn less the figure calculated. We all make choices on what to spend our money on. I don't smoke, don't drink, don't eat meat, don't go on expensive holidays any more (too many cats!) and the like, so if I want to spend £250 a month on buying a car which should last me five years minimum before I replace it with the last car I am likely to ever need: can't see me doing much driving after 70, then that's what I'll do thank you very much.

Anyway, I have the 20m walk down my garden to my office/shed so please enjoy the day and if we can, can we be a little less judgemental about people and their choices please.

Oh finally, the Governments idea is stupid for more reasons than I can be bothered to outline.




Good post. Thank you.
Rust never sleeps

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2019, 09:24:38 am »
If we're not judgemental, you know nothing changes. If no one is ever upset, nothing changes. I'm sorry if that offends people, but if we don't offend people, nothing changes. We have a car, we're part of the problem. But until you admit you're part of the problem, nothing changes.

Electric cars are a huge resource sump, where do you think the lithium comes from, all the other components and their constituents? Even if we pretend all the electricity is made by in a completely renewable fashion by cuddly creatures, the impact is huge. What about end-of-life. I'm sorry, but electric cars are Marlboro Lights of driving. The let us keep our vehicle-dependent lifestyle and the majority of the costs and impacts, while avoiding reflecting on the impacts of that lifestyle.

If that's worthy of a boo-hoo, then fine, I'm the evil fairy Queen.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Electric cars in bus lanes?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2019, 09:37:28 am »
No, a bit of a twat.

Could someone please delete my account. I no longer wish to post on here.

Thanks for all the fish but thats me out of here.
Cats to the left of me, cats to the right of me, cats sitting on my keyboard making far more sense than I do.