Author Topic: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms  (Read 2162 times)

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2019, 03:50:50 pm »
I like my Edge Touring, I keep it simple a basic GPX track and no turn by turn or beeps.  The level of mapping I want is enough to take the right road at a junction, so I have it zoomed in more than I think most users do, if I want the bigger picture I'll look at the paper map.  The only times it's let me down have been recording issues, lesson learnt, if it's important take a back up of some sort. 
Also liked the Etrex 20 before it, no issues with that either, though I prefer the Touring's touch screen and USB charging.

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2019, 08:27:25 pm »
I had come down to a shortlist of Etrex 20 (or 30 but the 30 is well over my budget limits) and the Dakota 20, but I was unsure about whether they would do what I was looking for. It's nice to have that confirmed and also that the Etrex 30 doesn't add anything to the features that I want, only luxury stuff that I can do without (one tends to think more expensive = better but it's not always the case ).
USB charging is not a deal maker or breaker for me. At present I don't have a dynohub so charging on the move is not an option. I have batteries (accus really) in my front lights. Charging at home is the same, AA accus or USB accu. I find charging the phone a PITA because it doesn't last very long. OTH my camera and my USB rear lights last a very long time and so are a joy to have. Being able to find replacement batteries on the road is probably worth more to me than a USB charging option.

I did think of the Wahoo and Lezyne units, particularly after reading QG's enthusiastic comments elsewhere on here. In the end the conception and philosophy of the Wahoo does not appeal to me - the app and phone connections and all that means for me turn me off the Wahoo (just the impression that I get from their website, I don't buy into that philosophy). I abandoned the Lezyne after reading some comments on here and also their philosophy which is not very far removed from Wahoo.

So thank you everyone for all your comments and Etrex 20 appears to be what it will be. (and maybe going back to multifocal specs to be able to read the map on the beast)

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2019, 09:30:55 pm »
if you don't need maps, only a route to follow, a simple line on a blank screen is very easy to read - that's what i use. on rear occasions when i need to check the map i pull out the phone, which is superior for that task.

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2019, 10:24:09 pm »
+1 for eTrex 20 or 30.  A decent set of rechargeables and you can get around 24 hours out of it, though it's less if you keep the display backlight on.

I usually stick to my eTrex 30x but I tried MrsT's Oregon 600 recently. It's snazzier and has a bigger screen, but the GPX it gives you at the end of the ride doesn't include cardio data; I have to take the .FIT file it offers and put it through a converter before my log program will accept it. Boring.

I use the Dakota, I find the better quality, slightly bigger screen noticebly easier to see than my previous Etrex. I've got an oregon as well but the touch screen really, really doesn't like rain. Its gets it confused between a fingerprint touch and a heavy raindrop!
Reine de la Fauche


Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2019, 10:56:24 pm »
It's nice to have that confirmed and also that the Etrex 30 doesn't add anything to the features that I want, only luxury stuff that I can do without (one tends to think more expensive = better but it's not always the case ).
The 30 does have a proper compass that works while you're not moving, it seems like a small thing but with the 20 to have to ride up the road for the map to right itself and figure out which way to head.  Bit of an irritant when on your own, tends to make you look foolish when leading a group :-[
I was a bit surprised by this considering it's intended for walking, though who'd walking without a proper compass as well.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2019, 11:06:45 pm »
It's nice to have that confirmed and also that the Etrex 30 doesn't add anything to the features that I want, only luxury stuff that I can do without (one tends to think more expensive = better but it's not always the case ).
The 30 does have a proper compass that works while you're not moving, it seems like a small thing but with the 20 to have to ride up the road for the map to right itself and figure out which way to head.  Bit of an irritant when on your own, tends to make you look foolish when leading a group :-[
I was a bit surprised by this considering it's intended for walking, though who'd walking without a proper compass as well.

I'd forgotten about that.  To clarify, the magnetic compass allows the device to sense its orientation so it can draw the map (and/or north arrow) in the correct direction when you aren't moving (when moving, it can derive the orientation from the direction you're moving in).

I find that it's only marginally helpful when the device is mounted on a bicycle, as the presence of all that metal tends to throw it off, and the way bicycles move means that orientation derived from the last movement is usually correct when you come to a stop at a junction anyway.  On the other hand, it's invaluable when you use it on foot, because (unless you hold it still and walk smoothly) a GPS receiver held in your hand while you walk moves in all sorts of random directions, especially when clambering over rough terrain, so movement-derived orientation is nearly always useless.

It's about making the display less confusing[1], and isn't a substitute for a traditional compass.  I wouldn't use a GPS receiver to sight a bearing or anything like that, but it's generally good enough for "Which way am I facing?" when you emerge from a railway station.


[1] Before GPS receivers with magnetic compasses, I tended to set them to display the map "north up" when walking, as it was one less thing to have to think about.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2019, 02:03:21 am »
Quick!  Stop!  Don't whatever you do buy the Etrex 20! 

There are many people on here who have owned and exclusively used one since the year 2000BC and who therefore think it is the perfect GPS.  They really should have realised by now that they are out of date, but they have no backbone and so haven't even considered this.  Everyone who buys a GPS now has a moral responsibility to buy something else just to spite these people.

Other things to note:

1) You can up/download to/from a Wahoo just like an Etrex if you want, through your file manager.  Here is me doing this right now.

2) On an everyday basis, swapping and charging AAs is definitely more of a faff than plugging in a USB port.

3) On a world level, finding replacement AAs is harder than finding a USB charge.

4) The E20 screen is shit. 


S2L

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2019, 06:55:02 am »
This forum is biased towards Etrex units, which are designed for hiking and not for cycling. In essence this is down to the fact that this is for the most an Audax forum and Etrex has an excellent battery life compared to old cycling GPS units.

I also appreciate that the Edge units are designed for training rather than long distance cycling, BUT the modern ones have a battery life which is compatible with long distance cycling (20 hours plus) and they are NOT as big as a dictionary... they don't rattle on the bars and they don't fall off, hence they don't need to be secured with rubber bands like the Etrex... small things but actually quite important, when you think about it.

Yes, many users have reported faults in the 520/820 series and previous, but 90% of the issues were down to bluetooth grief and bugs in software uptades. You don't have to pair the unit to your phone and you don't have to download updates.

Honestly, get a 21st century GPS unit, get the Edge 530 and use it for navigation, rather than to answer your phone or tell you when you are on a Strava segment and you will be happy as Larry, with no issues and you won't look ridiculous carrying a walkie talkie lookalike rattling on your stem

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2019, 11:39:16 am »
Quick!  Stop!  Don't whatever you do buy the Etrex 20! 

There are many people on here who have owned and exclusively used one since the year 2000BC and who therefore think it is the perfect GPS.  They really should have realised by now that they are out of date, but they have no backbone and so haven't even considered this.  Everyone who buys a GPS now has a moral responsibility to buy something else just to spite these people.

Other things to note:

1) You can up/download to/from a Wahoo just like an Etrex if you want, through your file manager.  Here is me doing this right now.

2) On an everyday basis, swapping and charging AAs is definitely more of a faff than plugging in a USB port.

3) On a world level, finding replacement AAs is harder than finding a USB charge.

4) The E20 screen is shit.

Can't disagree with this lot.

You can pick up a usb charger in most gas stations and supermarkets. The same is not true if you forget the aa/aaa battery charger. They also tend to be large and heavy and take up excessive space in your pack.

The Lithium Ion battery chemistry is also a lot more tolerant of 15 minutes on charge during a cafe stop to give it a boost. Doesn't everyone carry a usb power bank anyway now to charge their phone?

And as S2L says, devices like the wahoo/edge units fit to the handlebar mounts very well.

I upgraded from a etrex10 to a wahoo elemnt bolt, and it has been a revelation. I still don't understand why everyone loves the etrex line so much.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2019, 12:45:40 pm »
This forum is biased towards Etrex units, which are designed for hiking and not for cycling. In essence this is down to the fact that this is for the most an Audax forum and Etrex has an excellent battery life compared to old cycling GPS units.

I'd agree with that.  Since getting into racing, the eTrex's approach of always recording - ideal for audax or touring, where your priority is not losing data - has become clunky: You can't simply press the button as you cross the start/finish line like you can with an Edge.  I believe the Edge is also capable of displaying how many laps you've done.  I've been managing with my eTrex, but it means post-processing the GPX files.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

JonB

  • Granny Ring ... Yes Please!
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2019, 12:46:52 pm »

You can pick up a usb charger in most gas stations and supermarkets. The same is not true if you forget the aa/aaa battery charger. They also tend to be large and heavy and take up excessive space in your pack.

The Lithium Ion battery chemistry is also a lot more tolerant of 15 minutes on charge during a cafe stop to give it a boost. Doesn't everyone carry a usb power bank anyway now to charge their phone?
It's whatever works for people, a couple of AAs on a longer ride don't weigh anything meaningful. No, I don't carry a USB charger for the phone unless it's over 600km, I turn it on airplane mode and use it when necessary. Never carried an AA charger.

I upgraded from a etrex10 to a wahoo elemnt bolt, and it has been a revelation. I still don't understand why everyone loves the etrex line so much.
The 10 is a different animal that doesn't have mapping so it's not really a fair comparison. Why do I love the etrex line, I don't but if people ask I tend to say why I use one - it works. I've been on so many rides where people's edge devices have crashed or they can't get hold of their data after a ride.  Having said that, I do like the look of the 530 and 830 that have been mentioned upthread. If they prove reliable them I could be up for making the switch.

And as S2L says, devices like the wahoo/edge units fit to the handlebar mounts very well.
J
Agree

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2019, 01:01:19 pm »
It's whatever works for people, a couple of AAs on a longer ride don't weigh anything meaningful. No, I don't carry a USB charger for the phone unless it's over 600km, I turn it on airplane mode and use it when necessary. Never carried an AA charger.

Do you not do multi day tours?

Quote

The 10 is a different animal that doesn't have mapping so it's not really a fair comparison. Why do I love the etrex line, I don't but if people ask I tend to say why I use one - it works. I've been on so many rides where people's edge devices have crashed or they can't get hold of their data after a ride.  Having said that, I do like the look of the 530 and 830 that have been mentioned upthread. If they prove reliable them I could be up for making the switch.

The way I use the device, the comparison is fair. It's a line on a screen, with an arrow, I follow that line. My wahoo has some extra detail around that line, but it's the line I follow. I don't even do the turn by turn thing. I just follow the dot. This has come up on other threads on here about the confusion between route points and track points (WHY?! GPX WHY!?!).

I agree with the edge devices thing. I often pick up edge users that have failed to use them properly on audaxes, and navigate them back to the finish[1].

It's becoming a bit of a joke now. I'm seriously considering having some cards printed up with a link to buy a wahoo, and a affiliate link. The questions at the finish always turn to "what device are you using?". I carry 2 wahoo bolt's, one on the handlebars, one in my saddle bag. Why 2? Cos on an ultrarace I can't risk one being damaged etc... It does lead to the situation of a pelaton of 4, with 2 working nav devices, the one on my handlebars, and the one in my saddle bag.

Quote
And as S2L says, devices like the wahoo/edge units fit to the handlebar mounts very well.
J
Agree

If you use the element bolt, and you really want to be sure the device isn't going anywhere (Pavé anyone?), then you can even screw the device to the mount. I've not done this, and my bolt stayed put just fine when I did Paris-Roubaix, but it may be a consideration for some.

J

[1] Pro tip, shout the directions in Dutch or Deutsch, avoids the ambituity of "Right, we need to go left" etc...
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2019, 01:14:11 pm »
As an aside.   I have an Edge 1030 as my main navigation tool.   I am very happy with it.

I also have a 520 that currently lives on the turbo trainer.   I have never used it for navigation, purely for recording rides.   Would it work as a back up to be carried on longer rides ?

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2019, 01:21:22 pm »
You can pick up a usb charger in most gas stations and supermarkets. The same is not true if you forget the aa/aaa battery charger. They also tend to be large and heavy and take up excessive space in your pack.

Except that the overwhelming majority of the time, you only need a spare pair of AAs (or two) not the actual charger.  I do have a small light AA charger for touring (which I also need for my auxiliary rear lights), I think I've carried it once this year, and didn't actually use it as I had to bail after the third day of the tour.

Anyway, the argument isn't really about the relative convenience of AA or USB power - I agree that USB is a win for day-to-day use (though I feel much more strongly about this with my head torch or phone than my GPS) - it's about the practicalities of waterproofing.  If the GPS receiver can run on its own battery, you don't have to think about waterproofing.  As soon as you need to recharge it, you either have to make a USB connection to it while mounted on the bike, or remember to plug it in it when you stop riding.  That might be fine, depending on what you're doing and what other tech you're using, or it might be an unwanted faff.


Quote
And as S2L says, devices like the wahoo/edge units fit to the handlebar mounts very well.

There's nothing wrong with the Dakota-style mount.  It holds it securely to the handlebars, and the back of the unit is comfortable in your hand, which matters if you also want to use it on foot.  I agree that the smaller Edge units are a more handlebar-friendly size (this is most notable with tiller steering, the chunk of an eTrex is fine on an upright, an Oregon is a bit unwieldy), but that's another tradeoff with screen size and battery capacity.


Quote
I upgraded from a etrex10 to a wahoo elemnt bolt, and it has been a revelation. I still don't understand why everyone loves the etrex line so much.

We love the eTrex because the older Edges are barely usable for long distance cycling.

Garmin more generally, simply because they got there first.  There are a lot of people with extensive experience of Garmins who can tell you how to make one do what you need.  Everything else is a bit of an unknown factor.

I'm going to have to think long and hard about what to replace my eTrex 30 with when it dies.  I'd like something that could handle racing better (which might just be a low-end second unit).  I need sensible mounting options for recumbents as well as uprights.  I despise touchscreens and am completely indifferent about colour.  I'd like something that can go for at least 12 hours, preferably more like 18, without having to deal with batteries, but I'm not particularly fussed about what they are.  I don't want to have to use websites, smartphone apps or wireless voodoo pixiedust to exchange data, though the options are nice to have, and I'd rather avoid binary file formats.  Obviously it needs not to be locked into proprietary mapping, and I'd like to have turn-by-turn navigation and auto-routing available, even if I choose not to use them for audaxy rides; sometimes I just want it to get me to some destination while I worry about the lemming-infested one-way streets, road closures and people driving cars at me.

Certainly keeping an eye on Wahoo, they seem to be gaining ground as Garmin progressively loses the plot.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

S2L

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2019, 02:00:36 pm »


Certainly keeping an eye on Wahoo, they seem to be gaining ground as Garmin progressively loses the plot.

I keep banging the same drum.
I think the 530 is a significant step up and it's a far superior unit compared to the Wahoo. The display of the Wahoo is medieval and the battery of the 530 is better.

Using it without bluetooth and at reduced brightness, with alarm bells and gingles off, but navigation on, it uses roughly 1% of the battery every 8-10 km and that at the current temperature around 3-7 degrees... in summer it can only get better. No touch screen.
Game changer

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2019, 02:19:15 pm »
That does look promising, and it sounds like they've solved battery life.  The remote control (ostensibly a gimmick) appeals, as it would neatly solve the operating-a-derailleur-post-mounted-GPS problem.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2019, 02:27:54 pm »
I purchased an Edge explore (the cheapest edge unit) last April mainly because it had all the features i needed. It was either that or the Wahoo.
For me the colour screen swung it but i did hesitate for weeks before i bought it. After 6 months its not let me down at all. Longest ride was
around 380km - battery life is a little down on what they claim but i have noticed that this really does depend a lot on how its used.
Regards,

Alan

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2019, 03:11:15 pm »
If I were buying now I'd probably get a 530.  The first generation Wahoos made some routing / mapping decisions that were slightly odd, or at least different for those of us who grew up on Garmin, and the second generation models have doubled down on those rather than solving them, while Garmin have really stepped up to address some of their problems around e.g. battery life, and from what I've heard so far have done a reasonable job of software testing too, unlike some of their previous offerings.


diapsaon0

  • Advena ego sum in terra
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2019, 03:36:36 pm »
Crikey!  The more I read this thread, the happier I am with a half-inch OS map (that dates me) and an old Silva compass which cost me 7/6 (37.5 new pence) when I was in the Boy Scouts - circa 1968.
Advena ego sum in Terra

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2019, 03:41:28 pm »
Most dedicated audaxers seem to use a phone nowadays, in connection with a dynamo charger such as Igaro, rather than a specific GPS.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2019, 03:44:07 pm »
It's nice to have that confirmed and also that the Etrex 30 doesn't add anything to the features that I want, only luxury stuff that I can do without (one tends to think more expensive = better but it's not always the case ).
The 30 does have a proper compass that works while you're not moving, it seems like a small thing but with the 20 to have to ride up the road for the map to right itself and figure out which way to head.  Bit of an irritant when on your own, tends to make you look foolish when leading a group :-[
I was a bit surprised by this considering it's intended for walking, though who'd walking without a proper compass as well.

I'd forgotten about that.  To clarify, the magnetic compass allows the device to sense its orientation so it can draw the map (and/or north arrow) in the correct direction when you aren't moving (when moving, it can derive the orientation from the direction you're moving in).

I find that it's only marginally helpful when the device is mounted on a bicycle, as the presence of all that metal tends to throw it off, and the way bicycles move means that orientation derived from the last movement is usually correct when you come to a stop at a junction anyway. 
I find exactly the opposite: when I come to a stop, the direction arrow on Etrex 20 spins round through about 180 degrees.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2019, 03:47:37 pm »
Crikey!  The more I read this thread, the happier I am with a half-inch OS map (that dates me) and an old Silva compass which cost me 7/6 (37.5 new pence) when I was in the Boy Scouts - circa 1968.

GPS, and computerised navigation in general, is a complicated subject with a need for more than one highlighter pen.  Just like navigating with a paper map (and compass/wristwatch/sextant/LORAN receiver), there are different strategies you can use, different skills required, and tools that are better suited to some strategies than others.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

S2L

Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2019, 03:50:32 pm »
Just follow the purple line, and you'll be fine...  :thumbsup:

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2019, 03:53:54 pm »
Just follow the purple line, and you'll be fine...  :thumbsup:

That's one strategy (and probably a good one if you're used to navigating with a paper map), but it still requires some skills.  You've got to be able to know that the blue line is purple for a start.  And get the data that defines the line into the GPS receiver so it can be displayed.  Plus all your usual map-following skills like not riding past junctions because you're not paying attention[1] at the critical moment.


[1] This is of course one of the more useful things that a GPS receiver can help you with.  Which means learning how to make it light up and beep at turns (for which there are various strategies)...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: wanted a simple gps for following pre-enregistered routes, max 300kms
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2019, 03:56:00 pm »
The line is neither blue nor purple, it's pink! At least on my screen.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.