Author Topic: TCR no8.  (Read 9415 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2019, 10:55:39 am »

I'm guessing another start parcour designed to spread the field out again. So the mass group is split up within the first 50km or so.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2019, 12:57:38 pm »

Well that's new. They've had too many people apply get a place then, not take the place, so they have put in a £25 fee to enter. Non refundable (tho it counts towards your race fee if successful).

I wonder if that will reduce the numbers applying, or of it will just piss off those who don't get a place even more.

Reading the race manual now.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

S2L

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2019, 01:45:10 pm »

Mikko Just tweeted.

Breast to Burgas. Via Roubaix and Romania.

This looks great, tho I'm slightly worried that this means Pavé on the CP1 parcour. I hate pavé...

J

Plenty of routes into Roubaix that don't rely on pave'... it would be stupid to force riders to ride on the Paris-Roubaix pave'... it's just a recipe for disaster, with bikes loaded with bags and other stuff that can break or fall off and cause injury.

PR pave' is a lot more brutal than anything seen in the Flanders... it's the most unforgiving terrain I have ever ridden on

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2019, 02:06:01 pm »
Pavé, BEARs and landmines?  I expect the NCN routes of Surrey will be busy with riders training for the conditions...  :)
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2019, 03:19:32 pm »

Well that's new. They've had too many people apply get a place then, not take the place, so they have put in a £25 fee to enter. Non refundable (tho it counts towards your race fee if successful).

I wonder if that will reduce the numbers applying, or of it will just piss off those who don't get a place even more.

Reading the race manual now.

J
Yikes. I understand charging to register for the race but non-refundable if you don't get one is really shitty.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


S2L

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2019, 03:47:56 pm »

Well that's new. They've had too many people apply get a place then, not take the place, so they have put in a £25 fee to enter. Non refundable (tho it counts towards your race fee if successful).

I wonder if that will reduce the numbers applying, or of it will just piss off those who don't get a place even more.

Reading the race manual now.

J
Yikes. I understand charging to register for the race but non-refundable if you don't get one is really shitty.

Considering being part of it is an outlay in the thousands, I don't think anyone who is serious will be put off by a £ 25 gamble for a place.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2019, 03:50:44 pm »

I'm guessing another start parcour designed to spread the field out again. So the mass group is split up within the first 50km or so.

J

The long start parcour was a new thing for Burgas.  There are so many fewer roads there than in western Europe and the main road out of Burgas is normally non-cycling so they needed to do something different.  When it started in Geraardsbergen it was a case of eveyone going their separate ways from the top of the Mur.  I'd expect something similar in Brest - a short loop round somewhere, maybe over the bridge and out of the city, then everyone going their own ways off into the night. 
It was fun because you were soon on your own, but would then meet other riders at junctions and roundabouts for the first few hours. 

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2019, 03:52:07 pm »
The £25 to enter thing does seem a bit odd.  I expect most people who got a place would happily pay an extra £25 to compensate those who had missed out!

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2019, 04:24:21 pm »

Well that's new. They've had too many people apply get a place then, not take the place, so they have put in a £25 fee to enter. Non refundable (tho it counts towards your race fee if successful).

I wonder if that will reduce the numbers applying, or of it will just piss off those who don't get a place even more.

Reading the race manual now.

J
Yikes. I understand charging to register for the race but non-refundable if you don't get one is really shitty.

Considering being part of it is an outlay in the thousands, I don't think anyone who is serious will be put off by a £ 25 gamble for a place.
The TCR organisers always mention in their events that money shouldn't be an obstacle to participation. To then follow this up by demanding what could amount to 3 hours wages for some in non-refundable dough without even getting a place in the race seems regrettably regressive to me.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2019, 04:56:35 pm »
The £25 to enter thing does seem a bit odd.  I expect most people who got a place would happily pay an extra £25 to compensate those who had missed out!

What surprises me most is that it isn't £25 to apply. It's £25 to start applying. You don't even get the race manual until you cough up. I'd have put the £25 to submit, rather than to start it. There's info you get from the race manual that I've not found on the website, which would perhaps enlighten peoples decision making process.

I can understand it. 63 women were offered places on no7, 40 made it to Burgas. I don't know how many of those 63 paid up.

Approximately 20 riders who were offered a place, and paid their £350, didn't pick up their cap in Burgas.

If they have the same ~1000 people apply as in previous years, that's £25000 netted. A not inconsiderable amount, but on an event like this it doesn't go far.

The TCR organisers always mention in their events that money shouldn't be an obstacle to participation. To then follow this up by demanding what could amount to 3 hours wages for some in non-refundable dough without even getting a place in the race seems regrettably regressive to me.

There's an interesting gender element to this. I'm currently unemployed, so £25 is not inconsiderate, that's most of a week's food. So to gamble £25 for the chance to ride is quite a gamble. *BUT* Unless Fiona has inspired an extra 100+ women to be crazy enough to enter, the chances are that I'll get a space again. My odds are good. But to all the 1st time men, your odds ain't great. I probably wouldn't apply if it wasn't stacked in my favour so much.

I wonder if more people would have volunteered for tcrno7 if they'd known it's £25 to play the lottery for no8?

J

--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2019, 05:00:37 pm »
PR pave' is a lot more brutal than anything seen in the Flanders... it's the most unforgiving terrain I have ever ridden on

the most notorious arenberg trench will be one of them, my stategy would be to let some air out of the tyres and ride slowly - it's only 2.5km after all (20min?)..

things should be attached to a bike in a way that they stay attached.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2019, 05:08:10 pm »
the most notorious arenberg trench will be one of them, my stategy would be to let some air out of the tyres and ride slowly - it's only 2.5km after all (20min?)..

things should be attached to a bike in a way that they stay attached.

Actually no. Check the race manual. Unless things change dramatically between v0.0 and v1.0, it doesn't go through arenberg.

Arenberg I could deal with, there's tarmac down the side, and a good gutter. There are other sections that are much more brutal. I also had the issue that I had to stop and remove all the shrubbery from my rear mech as I was riding in the gutter, and it was pulling all the grass out.

I'll wait to see what the official parcours says, but I'd be tempted to walk anything under about 400m.

Agree with you on the attached to the bike. Given the quality of the roads as we head east, this is going to be a good shake down of kit... Pun very much intended...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

S2L

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2019, 05:59:17 pm »

The TCR organisers always mention in their events that money shouldn't be an obstacle to participation. To then follow this up by demanding what could amount to 3 hours wages for some in non-refundable dough without even getting a place in the race seems regrettably regressive to me.

If you want an event to be accessible to all, the first thing you do is a circular route A back to A, so that travel cost is significantly cheaper.
Then you make sure you provide somewhere basic to sleep, being that a roof of some sort, like a farm barn or a village hall.

Organisers have done neither, so clearly money is an entry barrier. I've never looked into it, but I would assume 4 figures is  the starting point.
As such, £ 25 is really peanuts. It's probably just there to deter time wasters and people who think 25 pounds are a lot of money and clearly don't have the means to race safely.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2019, 06:44:14 pm »
I've never looked into it, but I would assume 4 figures is  the starting point. As such, £ 25 is really peanuts.

There's a huge difference between paying £25 to participate in an opaque selection process completely outside your control that for the majority ends in rejection, and any expenses you incur to actually do the event. Rich people can afford to spend money to get nothing.

(I don't envy the task of selecting people for such a high profile event. I think it's only a matter of time before it's invite only or has actual qualifiers or some such)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2019, 06:46:15 pm »
If you want an event to be accessible to all, the first thing you do is a circular route A back to A, so that travel cost is significantly cheaper.
Then you make sure you provide somewhere basic to sleep, being that a roof of some sort, like a farm barn or a village hall.

Organisers have done neither, so clearly money is an entry barrier. I've never looked into it, but I would assume 4 figures is  the starting point.
As such, £ 25 is really peanuts. It's probably just there to deter time wasters and people who think 25 pounds are a lot of money and clearly don't have the means to race safely.

Thing is, if you are cash poor, but time rich, you can do the race really cheaply. If you bivvi along the way, your only outgoings are your food. Assuming you have the bike.

I think the cost isn't the issue, so much as the fact it's such a gamble for so many people.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2019, 06:56:50 pm »
re budget, everyone's situation is different and there are many ways to do the race. e.g. one guy was riding a 100e bike with few upgrades last year and he was doing just fine. if you carry your own sleeping arrangement accomodation cost is minimal. food bill varies, you eat for 3-4 people, so it adds up quickly (mine was around 600e - discount supermarkets and occasional restaurant). travel to the start and from the finish - depends where you live. accomodation at the start and finish - again it depends.
for the amount of experiences and memories tcr races were the best vfm "holidays" i had and they didn't cost "thousands".

S2L

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2019, 07:53:42 pm »
re budget, everyone's situation is different and there are many ways to do the race. e.g. one guy was riding a 100e bike with few upgrades last year and he was doing just fine. if you carry your own sleeping arrangement accomodation cost is minimal. food bill varies, you eat for 3-4 people, so it adds up quickly (mine was around 600e - discount supermarkets and occasional restaurant). travel to the start and from the finish - depends where you live. accomodation at the start and finish - again it depends.

In the thousands... just like a I said above... low or high thousands is down to the individual.

At the back of an envelope...

Travel to Brest + one night B&B shall we say 300 GBP
14 days of food, maybe 500 GBP
7 nights in various B&B along the way and other 7 nights bivvying let's say 400 GBP
One night at the finish in a decent place plus a decent meal let's say 100 GBP
Travel back to UK let's say 200 GBP with a lucky flight to Luton + train + extra to load a bike
ANd let's say another 100 pounds of extras

that's £ 1,600... maybe it's possible to do it for less... not a lot less

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2019, 07:56:48 pm »
Re the entry fee, its been put in place to discourage places being taken up by riders who are hedging bets and not totally committed to race.
 I appreciate that 25 quid can mean different things to different folks and Im sure that the team thought long and hard about just how to go about addressing it as sensitively as they could. I doubt if anyone could come up with a perfect scenario to resolve the issue of no shows.
  The  organisation are hyper aware about being inclusive. There are multiple examples of this in the race ethos from encouraging the inclusion of female racers until parity is reached, to spreading the net as geographically and culturally far as they can.
To that end the manual states that the excess from the application fees will be used as a bursary to assist under funded riders.

On to other things.. whats the deal with all the attention on the pave? How bad can a few km of cobbles be on a slow moving endurance bike? But then Ive never done pave.
often lost.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2019, 07:57:11 pm »
If you want an event to be accessible to all, the first thing you do is a circular route A back to A, so that travel cost is significantly cheaper.
Then you make sure you provide somewhere basic to sleep, being that a roof of some sort, like a farm barn or a village hall.

Organisers have done neither, so clearly money is an entry barrier. I've never looked into it, but I would assume 4 figures is  the starting point.
As such, £ 25 is really peanuts. It's probably just there to deter time wasters and people who think 25 pounds are a lot of money and clearly don't have the means to race safely.

Thing is, if you are cash poor, but time rich, you can do the race really cheaply.

Yebbut then you're not racing, and shouldn't really enter.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2019, 08:56:57 pm »
On to other things.. whats the deal with all the attention on the pave? How bad can a few km of cobbles be on a slow moving endurance bike? But then Ive never done pave.

It shows... I did Paris-Roubaix sportiv in 2018. I did the short version, which included 35km of pave. At the end of the 114km I had to get ice from the first aiders to put on my forearms. The shaking of the Pavé had caused the muscles and tendons in my arms to inflame.

A few segments of pave on the parcour will be survivable. 20+ it's gonna really hurt.

yebbut then you're not racing, and shouldn't really enter.

I'm sorry but I can't follow the logic here. Why does bivving every night preclude you from being competitive?

I was suggesting that if you rode to the start, and rode home again, then race between the two, sleeping in bus shelters, and under bushes, you don't need to have a hotel every night. There's a cheap youth hostel in brest, etc...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2019, 10:06:45 pm »
everything costs money but tcr does not have to be expensive.
 Costs are probably comparable to doing 12-15 UK audaxes.
 Food is cheap east of Austria, as are hotels.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2019, 10:32:42 pm »
everything costs money but tcr does not have to be expensive.
 Costs are probably comparable to doing 12-15 UK audaxes.
 Food is cheap east of Austria, as are hotels.

I was actually surprised by how easy it was to find hotels. Much easier than on RatN. One of the reasons I'm thinking of ditching the bivvi kit and relying on hotels for tcrno8.

Food shops were pretty rare along the start parcours of no7. Will make sure to plan resupply properly on the final leg this year.

Unless I'm reading things incorrectly, the 2 ferries across the danube we're limited to don't run 24 hours, so that's going to be a fun one to coordinate.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2019, 06:50:06 am »

Unless I'm reading things incorrectly, the 2 ferries across the danube we're limited to don't run 24 hours, so that's going to be a fun one to coordinate.

J

Ha - I hadn't spotted they were ferries!

S2L

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2019, 07:01:07 am »
everything costs money but tcr does not have to be expensive.
 Costs are probably comparable to doing 12-15 UK audaxes.
 Food is cheap east of Austria, as are hotels.

That can vary a lot... I can do my local BP for 7 quid all included, or I can do a remote 600 which is going to cost me well in excess of a 100 pounds all in.

I'm not saying you have to earn 6 figures to do TCR, but I don't think you can do it if you clock shifts at Deliveroo either. Money is an entry barrier.
It is no coincidence that Apidura, Rapha and other premium brands thrive out of this and similar events

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2019, 07:10:01 am »
There is a crucial distinction between 'cost' and 'entry barrier'. If you  want a place and start saving £5-10 a day between now and June 2020 that is one thing. What is more abrupt is announcing that registration opens Monday and that you have to give the organisers £25 which is likely to not even get you a place (I expect most applicants will be disappointed).
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD