Author Topic: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat  (Read 1191 times)

I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« on: November 26, 2019, 01:57:17 pm »
Louis went to a Halloween party last month. He was 12 at the time. The party was at the local army cadet HQ.

As he left I jokingly (or so I thought) said "Don't sign anything!"

When he came back he confirmed that he hadn't signed the forms he was offered.

 :o
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2019, 02:30:10 pm »
Just think yourself lucky we don't have press gangs any more!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2019, 03:04:15 pm »
Remember the first two years don't count!
https://youtu.be/Pl5V26oXHUI
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2019, 03:40:27 pm »
I didn't join the Army cadets but I spent a brilliant 6 years as an Air cadet which had me out in the outdoors nearly every weekend on some activity or other. We learnt skills and leadership I still remember to this day (I'm 40 now). The cadet forces are superb organisations. I didn't join up when I left the cadets and went into civvy life. Several of my friends did join but I'd learnt it wasn't for me by then.

It might be worth considering but a sensible conversation with the instructors would have been better than them thrusting forms at your children.

I would have thought the form would have been aimed at taking home to their parents rather than signing up 12 year olds without adult consent.
Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2019, 04:23:33 pm »
... I spent a brilliant 6 years as an Air cadet which had me out in the outdoors nearly every weekend on some activity or other. We learnt skills and leadership I still remember to this day (I'm 40 now). The cadet forces are superb organisations.

My experience is almost the exact opposite: I spent a dreadful year as an Air cadet which had me beaten up nearly every weekend during some activity or other. I learnt nothing, not even how to escape the bullies, I still remember to this day (I'm 61 now). The cadet forces are awful organisations.

Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2019, 04:43:48 pm »
Sorry road runner but I think it's wrong to label them all because of the bullying you suffered. Both my brother and me did army cadets and really think it instilled a lot of great stuff in us. We were both council house kids single parent and mother who doesnt really like the great outdoors and have grown up sensible ish with good jobs and a love of being outdoors.... Hey it even taught me to iron

Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2019, 04:47:45 pm »
There was some bullying. I remember some of the kids I knew at school joined and started throwing their weight around. One night exercise I think they thought they could beat my mates and I up but they had to find us first. They soon got bored of extra drill and the discipline that school didn't apply to them and they left after a while. I think most kids at some point experience bullying whatever they do. I'm sorry your experience doesn't match that of mine and many of my friends.

Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2019, 04:50:01 pm »
If Road-Runner was in the Cadets in 1974 or thereabouts, I expect they've changed an awful lot since then. What hasn't? I expect they've also changed quite a bit in the last 25 years or so since Johnyy Faro was there. But then I don't think the quality of the particular organisations is quite the point... And lastly, we don't know exactly what the forms that weren't signed were. Or even quite what the party was.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2019, 06:55:46 pm »
It was a Halloween party. I didn’t see the form, but (having just asked, I now know) it was to be brought home for parental consideration.

It didn’t make it home.

My experience of scouts* was more like rr’s of cadets than trekker’s.

I would like my kids to have the experiences trekker describes but without the ‘gateway’ element.

*I’m not saying they’re the same thing, it’s just the only comparison I have.
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2019, 07:56:59 pm »
Yep, the gateway.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2019, 08:09:59 pm »
Cudz you've ruined my day. Laughed at your 25 years since I was a cadet then realised it's been 22!

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2019, 09:19:01 pm »
My eldest granddaughter spent a couple of years in the Sea Cadets. It did her a lot of good as regards her character at a formative time of life, and she got to do a heck of a lot of fun stuff.
Ultimately she took up competitive rowing after enjoying it in the cadets. She no longer does either, but she reckons she's glad she did.

I strongly suspect that comparing 1970s youth organisations with those of today is like comparing a Brompton to an Ordinary.

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Kim

  • Timelord
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2019, 09:29:42 pm »
I strongly suspect that comparing 1970s youth organisations with those of today is like comparing a Brompton to an Ordinary.

Neither are particularly good at stopping?   ;D
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2019, 08:29:31 am »
I strongly suspect that comparing 1970s youth organisations with those of today is like comparing a Brompton to an Ordinary.

Neither are particularly good at stopping?   ;D
Nah! Both a bit odd, but serve a purpose!

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T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2019, 09:05:05 am »
I strongly suspect that comparing 1970s youth organisations with those of today is like comparing a Brompton to an Ordinary.

Neither are particularly good at stopping?   ;D

Thanks Kim, I needed a chuckle. ;D
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2019, 10:08:08 am »
It was a Halloween party. I didn’t see the form, but (having just asked, I now know) it was to be brought home for parental consideration.

It didn’t make it home.

My experience of scouts* was more like rr’s of cadets than trekker’s.

I would like my kids to have the experiences trekker describes but without the ‘gateway’ element.

*I’m not saying they’re the same thing, it’s just the only comparison I have.

I would think there are certainly similarities in scouts and the cadet forces. A big difference would be that the cadets in my day received considerable funding from military budgets that allowed us to do loads of cool stuff for very little money from ours or our parents. I know scouts/guides do get central funding but I believe the proportions were bigger to the cadet forces in return to using them as recruiting centres. I know nothing of todays cadets, I left in 1998 so I don't know what is paid for and what isn't after years of military budget cuts and austerity.

I spent a year as a scout because you could join at 12 and you had to be 13 to join the cadets. As soon as I turned 13 I was going to be a fighter pilot and I joined the air cadets (actually called the Air Training Corps or ATC). When I got there I found a commanding officer who was massively keen on mountaineering and outward bounds type courses. We would pile into a mini bus on a Friday night, drive to Snowdonia, trek up Snowdon or Tryfan or Cadair Idris on Saturday, rock climb on Barmouth Slabs on Sunday morning and be home Sunday night.

That was one commanding officer and his interests which he passed onto us. We did aircraft studies, theory of flight, we would fly twice a year (I think it's less now) we went on summer camp to an active RAF station, we did learn weapons drill and used firing ranges but it's not compulsary (and I was a terrible shot) but most of that in his view was secondary to his main passion. I wasn't going to become a fighter pilot but I fell in love with mountains because of him.

As is often the case youth groups of any type require strong characters to lead them and people with a passion. If the leaders and staff are keen they will instil that in the kids. Unfortunately though there's a postcode lottery element to this and I know I was lucky. Having said that all of the staff I ever met from different towns and regions all seemed to have the same passion for the ATC but different aspects of it that my CO had.

Comparing the 70s, 90s and today is impossible but don't dismiss it. I dont' have children and we never will but I will be having this conversation with my sister for my Nephew and Niece.



Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2019, 10:20:05 am »
I was never in any proper cadet force but I did flirt with a military career - I had work experience with the paras (I don't know if they offer this anymore!) and, a few years later, a residential stay at HMS Britannia with a bunch of officer cadet types. For better or worse, my hernia put paid to that line of work. Anyone who has gone through recruitment can attest to how ludicrous MOD medical checking is and I just butted my head against a brick wall.

At the time the para work experience was very, very hard and I'm still unsure how beneficial it was. I recall Corporal what's his chops carrying four cheapo halfords MTBs out of a shed for an 'adventure' bike ride and bellowing 'right which of you retards can't ride a bike?' and there was all kinds of daft arbitrary collective punishment. Knowing what I know now about bikes, I'm pretty sure no one was carrying any repair kits or whatever, and if anyone had caught a flat they'd be in for a 30 km trundle home on the rim. I was also witness to a lot of toxic behaviour including racism, misogyny, and general bullying. On the other I was definitely pushed to new limits, I was not a sporty kid but I found there were things I could do, like doing (what at the time) was a long bike ride, long hikes, problem solving exercises and so on which I do think was bona fide quality character building.

If/when I care for children myself I think I would steer more towards adventure organisations like the Scouts but I'd find it hard to say 'no' if one of them asked to check the cadets out.
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Wowbagger

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Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2019, 10:36:08 am »
In my view, any kind of "cadet force" for kids as young as 12 is utterly insidious.

Kids ought to be able to go out and do fun stuff without there being some sort of military association. But government isn't prepared to fund that.
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2019, 12:46:28 pm »
I spent a year as a scout because you could join at 12 and you had to be 13 to join the cadets. As soon as I turned 13 I was going to be a fighter pilot and I joined the air cadets (actually called the Air Training Corps or ATC). When I got there I found a commanding officer who was massively keen on mountaineering and outward bounds type courses. We would pile into a mini bus on a Friday night, drive to Snowdonia, trek up Snowdon or Tryfan or Cadair Idris on Saturday, rock climb on Barmouth Slabs on Sunday morning and be home Sunday night.
One of my nephews is in the Navy (real Navy not Naval Cadets, which he never was in, though he's still at uni) and seems to spend as much Navy time climbing mountains as on ships. He certainly enjoys climbing but it seems counterintuitive for the Navy!
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2019, 01:05:46 pm »
On account of government cutbacks there aren't enough ships to go round so I understand it's common for naval types to spend quite a lot of time ashore. I knew of one lad who was dating my bosses daughter at the time who spent large parts of the Afghan war on land alongside the infantry with a rifle. I think he volunteered for that post though.
Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2019, 02:11:55 pm »
From what he says, they seem to have a fair amount of "ships", but they're only a step or two up from something the Swallows and Amazons might have played in. But no matter how small it is, you're not allowed to call it a boat unless it's a submarine, in which case you're not allowed to call it a ship.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2019, 03:57:20 pm »
This seems like as good a time as any to mention the official YACF gunboat.

Not to be confused with a gunship, which as any fule knows is a helicopter.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2019, 03:59:44 pm »
It may interest you landlubbers to know that many RN buildings are, in fact, ships.

Such as HMS Raleigh and HMS Britannia.
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Salvatore

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Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2019, 04:29:24 pm »
This seems like as good a time as any to mention the official YACF gunboat.

Not to be confused with a gunship, which as any fule knows is a helicopter.

I couldn't help noticing on her Wikipedia page

Quote
Whilst on delivery from Vosper to the Royal Navy, her hull was punctured

Wouild that be Vosper Thornycroft?
Quote
et avec John, excellent lecteur de road-book, on s'en est sortis sans erreur

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: I don't wanna go fighting in the tropical heat
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2019, 07:30:49 pm »
In my view, any kind of "cadet force" for kids as young as 12 is utterly insidious.

Kids ought to be able to go out and do fun stuff without there being some sort of military association. But government isn't prepared to fund that.
Quite.
I felt exactly like that when Granddaughter went down that route.
But, they aren't my children.

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