Author Topic: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact  (Read 6861 times)

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #150 on: January 27, 2020, 04:53:06 pm »
Today I finished changing almost of our light bulbs at home to LED. If we turned all the lights on a year ago they would have used 1,019 watts but as of today that is now down to 92 watts. I have not changed the cooker hood, oven or microwave lights as I don't yet know whether I can replace them with LEDs.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #151 on: January 27, 2020, 05:01:25 pm »
I wouldn't bother with the oven.  The thermostat will just run the heating element (or burn gas) ever so slightly longer to make up for the lack of heat from the lamp.  And I wouldn't bother with the microwave or fridge on account of the low duty cycle, unless it needs replacing anyway.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #152 on: January 27, 2020, 07:44:07 pm »
Wot Kim said about the oven lights. It's just part of the heating system. Also, LED lights are likely to melt in the temperature of the oven. LED lamps may be too hot to touch when running, but they are far cooler than equivalent incandescent lights, so the fact that they can't stand the high temperatures doesn't matter, as they never get there.

However, in an oven, the self-heating of the lamp isn't relevant as the oven gets too hot on it's own for most electronics.
Quote from: Kim
Paging Diver300.  Diver300 to the GSM Trimphone, please...

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #153 on: January 27, 2020, 08:25:41 pm »
<obli_old_person_grumble>
"Lights in Ovens? What the chuff are they for? When I were a lad we didn't have lights in ovens, in fact we didn't have ovens, we just put the gruel on Dad's head and wound him up..."
</obli_old_person_grumble>
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #154 on: January 27, 2020, 08:27:44 pm »
There's a light in our oven.  It doesn't work, and I have no intention of getting up to my armpits in oven mank to fix it.  It's not like you can see anything through the door without getting on the floor anyway.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #155 on: January 27, 2020, 09:01:26 pm »
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #156 on: January 27, 2020, 09:21:46 pm »
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.


....and one has almost warmed up so that we can see, now!

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #157 on: January 27, 2020, 09:37:30 pm »
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.


....and one has almost warmed up so that we can see, now!
I'd call it a sympathetic lighting effect.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #158 on: January 27, 2020, 09:47:49 pm »
I have a WIN to report, having complained bitterly for [$ YEARS] about homeopathic beside lamps we now have two new bright funky LED lamps.  The old ones went to the spare room. The spare room ones were even older and will go to shed & gym
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #159 on: January 27, 2020, 11:24:18 pm »
Today I finished changing almost of our light bulbs at home to LED. If we turned all the lights on a year ago they would have used 1,019 watts but as of today that is now down to 92 watts.

And this is what I don't get about the whole debate with respect to domestic consumption.  Lighting, heating, domestic appliances and even cars are super efficient in comparison to what they used to be, certainly in my living memory.  So is it the case that there are just too many of us living on the planet that render these significant improvements in energy efficiency to be futile? 
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #160 on: January 27, 2020, 11:26:46 pm »
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.


....and one has almost warmed up so that we can see, now!
I'd call it a sympathetic lighting effect.

FTFY  ;)

fd3

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #161 on: January 28, 2020, 12:02:40 am »
@Bolt: some appliances are *much* more efficient (e.g. bulbs), some are just more efficient than the previous, while still being not that great a use of energy (e.g. dryers, dehumidifiers).  While we may have wacked some insulation on our homes, we are still decades away from the efficiency they have in Nordic states and will remain so because the solution in most cases is to knock down our lovely 100 year old homes and build again from scratch.  Our cars are more efficient, but then also bigger and therefore less efficient.  I remember an article in the last 5 years that pointed out that the fuel efficiency of a hybrid is about the same as an original 2CV (facts may be subject to memory).
Any while we have made this progress, we have not made much progress on food (because the solution is to go vegan, and even the vegetarians don't want to do that - or to put it in Clarkson terms "I won't give up meat for a whole day") and air transport.
So while we have made significant improvements in some aspects of our footprint, this is in no way a significant change to the majority of our footprint.  So, I would say, no, it's not just that there are too many of us (but there may be too many of us to all live a 90s Western lifestyle (cue images of cowboys in the 90s)).
[/I could be wrong]

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #162 on: January 28, 2020, 12:29:56 am »
Today I finished changing almost of our light bulbs at home to LED. If we turned all the lights on a year ago they would have used 1,019 watts but as of today that is now down to 92 watts.

And this is what I don't get about the whole debate with respect to domestic consumption.  Lighting, heating, domestic appliances and even cars are super efficient in comparison to what they used to be, certainly in my living memory.  So is it the case that there are just too many of us living on the planet that render these significant improvements in energy efficiency to be futile?

Energy per capital globally has been rising significantly because a lot more people have Nice Things such as cars. The energy efficiency improvement of cars is also wiped out by relentlessly increasing size and power.


Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #163 on: January 28, 2020, 06:36:19 am »
Have been using energy saving lightbulbs in the house for years.


....and one has almost warmed up so that we can see, now!
I'd call it a sympathetic lighting effect.

FTFY  ;)
Not really, otherwise I'd be wearing my shades indoors. 8)

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #164 on: January 28, 2020, 07:59:48 am »
@Bolt: some appliances are *much* more efficient (e.g. bulbs), some are just more efficient than the previous, while still being not that great a use of energy (e.g. dryers, dehumidifiers).  While we may have wacked some insulation on our homes, we are still decades away from the efficiency they have in Nordic states and will remain so because the solution in most cases is to knock down our lovely 100 year old homes and build again from scratch.  Our cars are more efficient, but then also bigger and therefore less efficient.  I remember an article in the last 5 years that pointed out that the fuel efficiency of a hybrid is about the same as an original 2CV (facts may be subject to memory).
Any while we have made this progress, we have not made much progress on food (because the solution is to go vegan, and even the vegetarians don't want to do that - or to put it in Clarkson terms "I won't give up meat for a whole day") and air transport.
So while we have made significant improvements in some aspects of our footprint, this is in no way a significant change to the majority of our footprint.  So, I would say, no, it's not just that there are too many of us (but there may be too many of us to all live a 90s Western lifestyle (cue images of cowboys in the 90s)).

Yes, people buy a car the size of a small bungalow and offset it with a couple of lightbulbs. Air transport, while bad, isn't relatively near to close the worst thing, but it's totemic. Everything gets shipped around the world. In the context of Brexit, I was reading about just-in-time supply chains and components being shipped back and forth. Insane, tbh.

Eating less meat is a good thing, being vegan, I'm not sure. Much 'plant-based' food is heavily processed (now veganism is the new virtue) and comes from intensive crops. Choosing ethical food would be the better thing. Of course, it's complicated, because you once you step away from intensive agriculture, then you start to become less efficient, the inputs go up, you need more land.

But yeah, there's too many of us consuming too much.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #165 on: January 28, 2020, 08:00:38 am »
So is it the case that there are just too many of us living on the planet that render these significant improvements in energy efficiency to be futile?

My view? yes.

If you visit those cities in the developing world whose population is a significant proportion of the entire UK, whose population's main concern is to improve their standard of living (mostly by selling STUFF to us), whose infrastructure is incapable of supporting - for example - widespread charging of electric vehicles, and who exist in a fug of pollution I suspect you might think so, too.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #166 on: January 28, 2020, 09:17:10 am »
This is why I don't think technology can avert climate changes and related problems. It's not fundamentally a technological problem, it's one of human (or other species) desire.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

T42

  • Tea tank
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #167 on: January 28, 2020, 09:34:39 am »
That ^^^, although I'm not sure where the other species come in. We seem to be working hard to get rid of them.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #168 on: January 28, 2020, 09:56:37 am »
I'm just thinking that if it weren't humans, there'd be some other intelligent species making things and using things up. But maybe there wouldn't and maybe if there were, that would make them humans.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #169 on: January 28, 2020, 10:34:54 am »
I'm just thinking that if it weren't humans, there'd be some other intelligent species making things and using things up. But maybe there wouldn't and maybe if there were, that would make them humans.
Whatever species it is, they're always going to try and push the limit of how many of them the planet can support. Let's face it, if there were only half a billion people on earth but they were still all driving around in cars and planes like us, then they wouldn't have anywhere near as much of a problem. Which suggests to me that "sustainability" is an entirely false notion because the more we save the planet, the more people it will be able to support. Bit like building more road to counter congestion - people just drive more and fill it up. The "utopia" of stable population and 'sustainability' doesn't exist. All sustainability does is provide the ability to sustain more people.
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #170 on: January 28, 2020, 11:55:05 am »
One change I made was to campaign with FoE when we spent ages giving out CFL bulbs to the public in exchange for their signature on a bit of paper. This lead to EDM 178 being signed by over 400 MPs and later resulted in the Climate Change Act 2008.
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

T42

  • Tea tank
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #171 on: January 28, 2020, 12:38:37 pm »
One change I made was to campaign with FoE when we spent ages giving out CFL bulbs to the public in exchange for their signature on a bit of paper. This lead to EDM 178 being signed by over 400 MPs and later resulted in the Climate Change Act 2008.

Trouble is that the promise of CFL & LED bulbs has been dulled by their lousy lifetimes. I've taken to writing the replacement date on the bulb at the base of the envelope; this weekend I replaced one with 10/11/2019 on it.  The Anglepoise in my office has had the same incandescent in it for a good 10 years at least.  And I just noticed that the twin LED strip light that I put up a year ago has already lost one "tube". How much energy goes into manufacturing and transporting ten times more ecobulbs than incandescents?

Another thing I'm noticing is that while many old-style bulbs could be used for many things, their eco-friendly "replacements" are strictly single-purpose.  Incandescents made great heaters for such things as wood-bending irons, incubators and fermentation cupboards.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #172 on: January 28, 2020, 12:46:53 pm »
And indoor cultivation of cannabis sativa.

Who, me, officer?
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Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #173 on: January 28, 2020, 12:49:14 pm »
That's not a problem of technology - it's perfectly possible to engineer an LED lamp with a long life - it's one of capitalism.  Why make an expensive lamp that lasts for ages when you can make a cheaper, brighter one that fails after 18 months?  'Twas ever thus.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Changes You've Made that (Might) Have a Climate Impact
« Reply #174 on: January 28, 2020, 12:55:13 pm »
I read somewhere that concrete is responsible for around 12% of all global CO2 emissions.
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.