Author Topic: Disc wheelset reccomendations  (Read 1255 times)

Disc wheelset reccomendations
« on: January 06, 2020, 02:00:55 pm »
Hi all, after reccomendations if possible please.

I've got a Sonder Camino and am looking for another wheelset for the bike - 700c, SRAM 1x11.

Now i'm very new to disc brakes and the wheelsets so am very much a novice - i need a pair of 700c with QR skewers (almost all i've look at are Thru axle or out of stock). 

Does anyone have any reccomendations please? Alternatively, can i buy a set with the thru axle and an adapter for qr dropouts?

Preference would be ones with the 6 bolt disc as i've a couple of spares i can pop on the wheelset.

thanks.

Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2020, 02:21:29 pm »
Alternatively, can i buy a set with the thru axle and an adapter for qr dropouts?

Two options:
- If the wheels are 100mm front and 135mm rear, you can just use a generic adapter that just substitutes the Thru Axle for the hollow axle you'd find on a QR wheel. However most TA wheelsets are 100/142 so the rear adapter won't work*.
- Some manufactures offer replaceable end caps to convert a TA wheel to QR. However, these tend to be only high end wheels.

If I were you I'd look secondhand. There are lots of QR disc wheelsets around from people upgrading to TA bikes.

(* Unless you fancy bending your frame outwards 3.5mm each side, while will mess up your rear mech and brake caliper alignment, besides everything else)

Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2020, 09:06:11 pm »
You could build/get some built.

I just picked up a pair of Novatex D791/792 hubs via Ebay for 75, and they can be had with QR ends as well as through axle (as can the 771/772 I think). Thens decide on your rims and spokes, or ask someone depending on what you are doing with it and Bob's your mother's brother.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2020, 09:27:39 pm »
I'm personally saving for a handmade set made by my local bike boffins. I've been quoted £500 for sapim spokes, brass nipples, hope hubs and DT swiss rims including labour.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2020, 09:35:47 pm »
Depends on what sort of rims you want. ie what size tyre you will be using. Quite a few options for 29" mountain bike wheels, though the rims might be too wide.
I'd look for something with XT hubs and DT Swiss Rims. Most hubs are Centrelock nowadays, but you can get an adapter, or just buy new rotors.

Some of the German shops do good value wheelsets, including options for custom builds.
eg from Actionsports. https://www.actionsports.de/en/shimano-xt-disc-custom-custom-wheelset-mtb-29er-4068?c=398#cdfff132db351f31ef00e8f20be45c45

Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2020, 09:44:30 pm »
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2020, 11:31:57 pm »

What's your budget?

I have a pair of H+Son Archetype rims on Shimano hubs (DH-T8000 front, FH-M8000 rear). I had them built by my tame bike mechanic.

My slightly heavier, wider, and cheaper winter set is the same hubs, but with Ryde Andra 321 rims.

Labour costs about €35 per wheel, spokes are about the same.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2020, 11:39:02 pm »
Interesting that you are getting charged £29 for labour QG. In my breakdown I'm getting charged £50 per wheel but then mines bang in the middle of Bloomsbury so they probably have a silly high rent as overhead.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2020, 11:46:10 pm »
Interesting that you are getting charged £29 for labour QG. In my breakdown I'm getting charged £50 per wheel but then mines bang in the middle of Bloomsbury so they probably have a silly high rent as overhead.

How much are you paying for spokes?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2020, 11:54:28 pm »
I don't know, I don't have a detailed quote at this point. Don't get paid until the 27th and this is a long payday wait so I wasn't asking for detailed sums. Just know that Billy stuck in a hundred quid for labour when he had his calculator out.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


halhorner

  • Cycling Weakly
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2020, 08:11:40 am »
I've had a couple of wheelsets built up by Spa Cycles and been very pleased with them. Worked out slightly cheaper than Hunt for the same rims (Hunt use  Kinlin 31T I think) and similar quality hubs, and better (imo) spokes. Labour was definitely less than £50 per wheel, more like £30 from memory.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2020, 08:16:56 am »
Sure but I think 'labour' is also a synonym for shop overhead. My premises is cloud 9 cycles on London store street which I should think has much higher business rate and rental costs than Spa or Wheelbuilders van Nederdraad.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


halhorner

  • Cycling Weakly
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2020, 08:27:18 am »
Ahh, That London

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2020, 08:39:52 am »
You pay for the convenience of the shop being right next to work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2020, 10:55:25 am »
Have you looked at https://www.huntbikewheels.com/?

another vote for Hunt wheels, I've just bought a second set (for a second bike :) ) and love them. 

Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2020, 11:38:15 am »
You pay for the convenience of the shop being right next to work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's fair enough, for some things I'm inclined to do similar.  As long as you know that's what you're paying for and don't think the builders postcode results in better wheels.

Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2020, 11:41:18 am »
just to be clear you are after a set of 100/135mm hubs, ideally with 6-bolt disc mountings, using conventional (9mm front, 10mm rear) axle sizes?  You say '11s' but is that for a 'road width' or 'MTB width' 11s cassette?  Confusingly shimano 11s MTB cassettes will normally fit on a 10s freehub body, but SRAM 11s cassettes will often only install on a 'road width' 11s freehub body, even if the bottom sprocket is 42T.

It is not clear (past you want 700C) what rims you are wanting (tyre widths?) or indeed whether you are likely to prioritise weight, cost, durability, serviceability, or something else.

FWIW I think that using spa cycles to build wheels to meet your needs is a good idea; I think you are more likely to be able to obtain a spare rim (at reasonable cost) in the event of a prang or a rim crack, and I also think that you will be able to choose an appropriate number of spokes for your use.  Not that they should be, but if any wheel is built with standard DB Sapim or DT spokes, it is not at all difficult to obtain exactly matching spokes in the event that any are needed.

cheers

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2020, 11:47:13 am »
Brucey while we've got your attention do you have an opinion on these rims? https://www.ison-distribution.com/english/product.php?part=RMHAV92B I have them in mind for touring/audax and some off road gravel stuff. Me, bike and cargo are often around 105kg-120kg. The set-up would be on hope hubs with sapim spokes and brass nipples.

I am mooting having my wheels made with these instead of the DT Swiss ones. The only thing making me think twice is that they're sleeve joined, not welded. They come to being around £25/rim cheaper than the equivalent DT Swiss rims and the mechanic has them on his own cross/gravel wheels and reckons they're very good indeed. Would value your opinion though.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2020, 12:22:09 pm »
I don't have strong views on these particular rims because I have not used them myself.

That they are sleeve or pin-jointed is (IMHO) of little consequence in most cases; the joint is under about 500kgf pushing the joint together and if the joint springs apart in a prang, that prang would normally  have distorted any rim. 

The alternative is a welded joint and that always has a HAZ (heat affected zone) next to it which persists in some form unless a two stage (or more) heat treatment is used after welding. I do not think any manufacturer uses such a heat treatment, and the result is that pranged  rims with welded joints often bend near to the weld and cannot be straightened.   It doesn't look as dramatic as a deformed pinned/sleeved joint but the effect on the wheel is the same; you need a new rim.

The devil is normally in the detail; we don't know what alloy is used (they say niobium alloy but this doesn't guarantee any particular strength level) and we don't know how thick the rim bed is where the spokes are drilled.  The latter, in a single (or no-) -eyelet rim greatly affects the chances of cracking. An offset rim design could reduce the spoke tension on the drive side and this will reduce the chances of rim cracking.

That these rims are crack resistant (or not) will only be borne out after a few winter's use, with salt water splashed over them. Most rims will crack given enough spoke tension and enough road salt, it is a question of how likely this is to happen in your use with any given rim.

On a practical note the 596mm ERD means there are other rims that could be used to replace these down the line if needs be and (right now) they only have 28 and 32h rims in stock.

For your load-lugging use I'd favour using

- 36 spokes not 32 (although availability of rims may affect this)
- an offset rim design (which makes the rear wheel a lot stronger and with a typical disc brake front hub isn't a daft idea either) and
- probably a heavier rim. 460g is very light and if an otherwise similar rim that is 50g (or more) heavier is available it would probably  be more suitable for your intended use. You definitely ain't going to notice the 'extra weight' once there is a load on. 

cheers

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2020, 12:36:14 pm »
Thanks. Got at least 3 weeks (probably longer...) before I make a decision. I will query about heavier rims however I definitely want to use tubeless tyres and I think 36h tubeless-ready rims might be scarce.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2020, 01:11:30 pm »
Thanks. Got at least 3 weeks (probably longer...) before I make a decision. I will query about heavier rims however I definitely want to use tubeless tyres and I think 36h tubeless-ready rims might be scarce.

H+son archetype?

I have ryde Andra 321's, but I don't know if they are tubeless ready.

Both very strong. Tho the Andra's are not light!

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2020, 01:30:52 pm »
Looks like it's not TLE... https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rims-tape/ryde-andra-321-700c-622-disc-rim-black-32-hole-seconds48381/

Honestly I think I'm going to end up going for the Halo ones and I trust Cloud 9 to help me out if/when they don't perform, their customer service is second to none in my experience. I had a chat with one of my colleagues who remarks that the Halo rims are well-regarded among his contacts. Further, I'll be a fair bit bodily lighter within a year or so.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD


Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2020, 05:13:58 pm »
Halo rims are usually Kinlin rims with a different sticker and price increase.

Archetypes aren't tubeless rims. I know they'll go up, but I wouldn't.

How wide do you need internal width to be? They're not a cheap option, but I've built up several sets of wheels with DT Swiss RR511 and they are strong and stiff rims and build well - 18mm internal. Kinlin 31T are a very good alternative that are a bit less expensive, a little bit lighter (490g) and slightly wider at 19mm internal.

Both are available in disc versions without machined braketracks. Kinlin also offer the 22T and 26T, plus assymetric rears. Unless you need wider these are hard to beat.

I've also got a few Ambrosio P20 rims waiting to be built up - not tried yet - that 20mm wide internally and 27mm deep. They are currently remaindered, but are sourced from one of the Taiwanese factories and seem nice at first glance. Rim brake wheels, but the brake track is black, so would work in a disc build.

Mike

Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2020, 05:16:29 pm »
Oh, and the Hunt wheels are largely Kinlin rims, often 31T.

It's a good rim and you can get them easily in the UK now (Spa and CycleClinic plus Halo and other rebadged...).

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Disc wheelset reccomendations
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2020, 05:28:24 pm »
Mike for internal width all I'm fussed is that they'll take 28mm 700c tyres, and anything bigger than that is a plus. Shouldn't ever have to go wider than 45mm at the widest.

Interesting on your point about Kinlin - I've browsed the cycle clinic page, having nothing better to do, and found this https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collections/rims/products/kinlin-tl-21-mtb-gravel-touring-rim-disc-brake which does look very much like it.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD