Author Topic: Road designers suck  (Read 3382 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Road designers suck
« on: January 21, 2020, 10:57:32 am »
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FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2020, 11:30:54 am »
Didn't notice until reopening it there that the picture shows the classic "I can't possibly park in the big parking area at the back of my house, so I'll park on the pavement instead" x3.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2020, 11:43:38 am »
I mentioned somewhere else the new development I stumbled across at Christmas. In the middle of nowhere with a single narrow access road opening onto the town bypass. The only access is by vehicle* unless you fancy tackling a couple of miles of muddy public footpath or a stroll down the side of a dual carriageway (I think there may actually be a pavement, though it's not exactly practicable). No idea how it got approved, it seems to have been initially rejected.

Totally inappropriate on any measure, but there it is. Replaced a single farmhouse.

On the other hand, directly opposite a local station is a huge plot of derelict land (where some factory units were pulled down). It's been derelict since we moved to the area. Not that, tbh, we should be encouraging further development, it's all commuters and there's no commitment to improve transport services or provide any local services.

*it's not even that great for vehicles, since you can get there from the southerly lane of the bypass.
!nataS pihsroW

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2020, 12:19:23 pm »
Didn't notice until reopening it there that the picture shows the classic "I can't possibly park in the big parking area at the back of my house, so I'll park on the pavement instead" x3.

Do you want to try again. I think I see 10 examples. Add to this the new development limit on the number of parking spaces and the insistence that the garage is a 'parking space' while building the houses so small that the garage has to be storage for the house. This means most properties only have one designated parking space, yet both husband and wife will commute and have a car each. I dread to think what will happen on my estate when the kids reach driving age and each household gains a 3rd car. There just aren't enough visitors bays to go round.

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2020, 12:20:55 pm »
Another favourite of crap designers is to include two parking spaces in tandem.  They rarely both get used.  One car goes on the road or pavement to avoid blocking the other one in.

A lot of cars won't physically fit through a standard 7' garage door now, at least not unless the door mirrors are folded first.  Then you can't open the door enough to get out inside the garage.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2020, 12:27:39 pm »
Ditto the garages where the second space is invariably in front of the garage.

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2020, 12:27:55 pm »
Altruistically, each town would have a strategic green transport plan, and an approach to ensure each new piece of development contributes towards that plan.

In practice, what might one expect? What joined up thinking is in place against which local developments are approved?

I'm just thinking how one might get involved in understanding at a local level what is in place, and how one might be able to challenge proposed developments that fall foul of sustainable and environmentally aware development. Bringing in an appropriate pressure group is one aspect, but that would depend upon the type of issue arising. That itself depends upon the standards / plans against which a new development can be assessed.


Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2020, 12:28:38 pm »
Ditto the garages where the second space is invariably in front of the garage.
That's less of an issue because the garage will be full of junk anyway!
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2020, 12:35:18 pm »
I'm just thinking how one might get involved in understanding at a local level what is in place, and how one might be able to challenge proposed developments that fall foul of sustainable and environmentally aware development.

People should be made liable for the externalities they impose on others, not just in their neighbourhood but on their commute, and around the world. Basically a 'VED plus' that factors in particulate and rubber health impacts, carbon emissions, wear and tear on roads, etc. It should become a serious tax penalty to operate e.g. a jeep. And it should be HMRC doing the enforcement, not do-nothing councillors.
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Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2020, 12:38:31 pm »
I once tried cutting through one of these new developments to get to a shop* on the road behind. The only way out the other side was to climb over a fence and down a grass bank. No wonder people drive to buy a pint a milk.

(* ironically, a petrol station)


Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2020, 12:42:54 pm »
Quote
And he urged the government to make mandatory its own advisory Manual for Streets, which says: “Streets are not just there to get people from A to B. In reality, streets form vital components of residential areas and greatly affect the overall quality of life for local people.”
Let's hear it for (and maybe even from) the Manual for Streets!
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2020, 12:46:57 pm »
Also:
Quote
Craig Bennett, chief executive of Friends of the Earth, said this was a "big shift in public opinion" which showed the public was "way ahead of politicians on this issue".[/qupte]
Possibly they are now. But:
Quote
People will have to get out of their cars if the UK is to meet its climate change targets, MPs say.

The Science and Technology Select Committee says technology alone cannot solve the problem of greenhouse gas emissions from transport.

It says the government cannot achieve sufficient emissions cuts by swapping existing vehicles for cleaner versions.

The government said it would consider the committee's findings.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49425402

I think select committees are (inevitably) ahead of MPs in general and MPs are sometimes/often ahead of local councillors.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2020, 12:57:32 pm »
I think the current situation can be summed up as "money talks and bullshit walks".  Developers build whatever is easiest and most profitable.  They don't care one iota what it's like to live in; their interest ends as soon as the last plot is sold.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2020, 01:14:21 pm »
Didn't notice until reopening it there that the picture shows the classic "I can't possibly park in the big parking area at the back of my house, so I'll park on the pavement instead" x3.

Do you want to try again. I think I see 10 examples. Add to this the new development limit on the number of parking spaces and the insistence that the garage is a 'parking space' while building the houses so small that the garage has to be storage for the house. This means most properties only have one designated parking space, yet both husband and wife will commute and have a car each. I dread to think what will happen on my estate when the kids reach driving age and each household gains a 3rd car. There just aren't enough visitors bays to go round.

When we were looking at new builds before we plumped for The Asbestos Palace even estates with only half the houses finished were already blighted by pavement parking. Visitor bays are instantly taken for the 3rd or 4th car.

Also, as part of this, developers get to build private streets at a lower standard than a council would accept anyway (I don't think we saw a single development that wasn't entirely private streets), and then leave the residents to sort it out, which includes ongoing parking provision.
!nataS pihsroW

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2020, 01:33:15 pm »
I'm just thinking how one might get involved in understanding at a local level what is in place, and how one might be able to challenge proposed developments that fall foul of sustainable and environmentally aware development.

People should be made liable for the externalities they impose on others, not just in their neighbourhood but on their commute, and around the world. Basically a 'VED plus' that factors in particulate and rubber health impacts, carbon emissions, wear and tear on roads, etc. It should become a serious tax penalty to operate e.g. a jeep. And it should be HMRC doing the enforcement, not do-nothing councillors.

Councillors don't enforce. Officers do.

If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2020, 01:40:17 pm »
Did anyone notice The report was from Professor Matthew Carmona?

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2020, 01:48:15 pm »
I'm just thinking how one might get involved in understanding at a local level what is in place, and how one might be able to challenge proposed developments that fall foul of sustainable and environmentally aware development.

People should be made liable for the externalities they impose on others, not just in their neighbourhood but on their commute, and around the world. Basically a 'VED plus' that factors in particulate and rubber health impacts, carbon emissions, wear and tear on roads, etc. It should become a serious tax penalty to operate e.g. a jeep. And it should be HMRC doing the enforcement, not do-nothing councillors.

Councillors don't enforce. Officers do.
Councillors are surely accountable for the performance of the officers.
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ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2020, 01:56:53 pm »
If as I councillor you want to not to be a councillor, simply propose to restrict someone's parking.
!nataS pihsroW

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2020, 02:02:28 pm »
It's not as if any of these are new observations. I'm almost inclined to believe they trot out the criticisms every couple of years as a sop for lack of action. This one was from August 2018: http://www.transportfornewhomes.org.uk
Quote
New housing in the UK is too often built around car use, with residents having little choice but to drive for almost every journey. What are the specific elements that make up a non-car-dependent housing development? Transport for New Homes has produced a Checklist for new housing developments.
et cetera
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2020, 02:10:32 pm »
It's a political economy problem. We know what the technical solution to problems is for basically everything, from nuclear weapons proliferation to dead cyclists to climate change. The actual problem is the balance of power, who gets to decide what.
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Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2020, 02:26:21 pm »
Councils have an obligation to ensure that they can house people. There are insufficient council houses and "affordable" housing. They also can be over-ruled by Westminster, should they decide to block a development.
All that means that when a developer turns up with a scheme for building houses, the council is concerned primarily about how many affordable homes they can get out of the deal and how they can minimise the objections of the local residents to avoid being kicked out of office. Additional local facilities paid for by the developer would also be nice (and help with point 2). Transport and sustainability and good design and proper neighbourhoods and all those other things that make somewhere worth living are way down the priority list.

If we want to do something about it, then we need central government to mandate national standards can't be undercut. Fat chance of that - it might impact on the profits of the housebuilders. Besides, central gov't have other things to get on with for the next n years now. ::-)

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2020, 04:40:19 pm »
^ mostly this.

Planning regulations are skewed quite heavily in favour of developers.

Developers have significantly more money to fight planning application cases than councils do.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2020, 05:18:56 pm »
'76% of people think that we should reduce the levels of driving....'


...action speaks louder than words.... if that fence down the bank to that petrol station was a navigable path.  How many would *really* walk?


Our next door neighbours when they see us walking to the bus stop (about 5 min walk) *insist* on giving us a lift if they catch us - seriously, they get mortally offended if we try to decline....


It simply doesn't occur to many to not use their car.  I wonder how many of this fabled 76% would actually do something about it personally....

It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2020, 05:21:58 pm »
"Everyone else should drive less"
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Road designers suck
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2020, 05:42:34 pm »
It always amazes me how many people drive round our village. We ended up chatting to a couple in the pub one night. Discovered they lived just round the corner from us, so at the end of the evening suggested we walk home together. They had the car. Apparently they always took the car, then had row about who was driving home. It's less than half a mile. And the parking in the village is so bad, getting a spot near the pub is pretty rare. Sigh.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."