Author Topic: Campagnolo component compatibility  (Read 620 times)

Campagnolo component compatibility
« on: February 21, 2020, 05:47:20 pm »
A friend has recently purchased a bike from e-bay.

The bike has a Daytona 10 speed groupset with a 13 - 25 cassette fitted. The rear mech. looks like it might be a short cage one.

I've been asked to try and lower the gear range to enable easier climbing of hills.

The owner of the bike also has an Athena 11 speed rear mech, which has the same length cage as the Daytona 10 speed.

Is a Veloce 13 -29 cassette likely to work with the Daytona mech. and levers? Will the mech be able to handle a 29 tooth sprocket?

Also, as the Athena rear mech. is in better condition visually than the Daytona, would using it be possible?

Any input would be gratefully received
I don't want to grow old gracefully. I want to grow old disgracefully.

guidon

  • formerly known as cyclone
Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2020, 05:50:20 pm »
I'm pretty sure you'll be okay - the cable pull is the critical feature and you're not changing that (the indexing is not at the rear mech end so the two derailleurs should be interchangeable...)

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2020, 08:37:05 pm »
IIRC Daytona 10s was only made for one year, 2001. This means that if the shifters are the correct 2001 Daytona shifters they will be the sort with G springs inside them and they have better compatibility than with later shifters.

Later 10s shifters use a different (vastly inferior) internal mechanism and although the shift ratio is the same, you may only use matching RDs with these shifters, because the springs inside other RDs are a bit stronger.  These shifters don't last that long anyway but once you dial a stronger RD spring into the mix, they are doomed to premature failure.

   A 2001 10s shifter does not have these problems and any 11s mech should work OK in an otherwise 10s system (but the cables will need to be perfect if it is a PS type RD with the weaker spring). You can check the largest sprocket size allowable provided you can identify the RD exactly, but IIRC all 11s mechs will handle at least 29T

cheers

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2020, 02:27:30 pm »
Pretty sure that all 10sp Campag mechs are OK up to a 29t sprocket, and have the capacity to handle the range with either a standard or compact double.

I did think that the pull ratio had changed with 11sp, but it's likely I've confused myself with the spring tension incompatibilities.

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2020, 04:20:17 pm »
Many thanks for all your input, with the information provided I can proceed with a lot more confidence than I had previously.  :thumbsup:
I don't want to grow old gracefully. I want to grow old disgracefully.

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2020, 05:38:19 pm »
Am pretty sure the older style 10-speed short cage mechs are only rated up to a 26T sprocket in capacity, at least if using a 50/34 compact, though may only be an issue in small-to-small and/or large-to-large - I discussed this a while back with Graeme from Velotech, I ended up using an older style medium cage 10 speed Chorus derailleur to avoid such issues when running a 12-27 cassette and a 50/34 compact.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2020, 06:21:20 pm »
Update.

After adding a couple of extra links to the chain, I fitted my 13 -29 wheel into my friends frame just to see if the gears would work.

The gear mech worked fine in accessing the 29 tooth sprocket.

However, when running big -big the chain was quite taut and when running small - small the chain sagged at the bottom, with the cage fully wrapped round.

Explained the situation to my friend and explained what was needed to solve the problem.

Bought a Veloce 13- 29 cassette, a Xenon medium cage mech and a new chain. Everything now fitted and working just as they wanted it. :thumbsup:
I don't want to grow old gracefully. I want to grow old disgracefully.

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2020, 08:35:57 pm »
Sounds about right, a medium cage should be fine running 13-29 and a compact or standard double, though I think a long cage is recommended if running a cassette over 26T with a triple. I went for the Centaur 12-27 cassette over the 13-29 because wanted a higher top gear over the 13T for club rides with my road bike, where the 12T does actually see some use, and 27T is fine for most hills round here on an unladen road bike with a compact.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2020, 08:47:56 pm »
I went for the Centaur 12-27 cassette
Where do you get your 12-27 cassettes from?

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2020, 09:15:13 pm »
I had a quick look and I found Centaur 10s 12-27 in stock at Merlin. Cost is about £80.

Wiggle have the cheaper Veloce 10s cassette (in most ratios but not 12-27) for £37.   

IIRC 12-25 and 12-27 only differ in the largest two sprockets, so if these are not used much and don't wear quickly, you might be able to convert a 12-25 to 12-27 by re-using some of your old sprockets.

cheers

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2020, 09:40:31 pm »
I had a quick look and I found Centaur 10s 12-27 in stock at Merlin. Cost is about £80.

Wiggle have the cheaper Veloce 10s cassette (in most ratios but not 12-27) for £37.   

IIRC 12-25 and 12-27 only differ in the largest two sprockets, so if these are not used much and don't wear quickly, you might be able to convert a 12-25 to 12-27 by re-using some of your old sprockets.

I bought 3 Centaur 12-27 cassettes (one for the bike, two spares) from various places, think the most I paid was £69. They're getting a bit hard to find now, though, as I think they may have recently been discontinued.

These are the 10-speed Campagnolo cassette ratios I'm aware of:

 Campagnolo Centaur Cassette Ratios

• 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23
• 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25
• 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25
• 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-27
• 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30 (30T is apparently too large for older derailleurs, though)

Campagnolo Veloce Cassette Ratios

• 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25
• 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
• 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25
• 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26
• 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29

The Centaur cassettes are a bit nicer quality, they're a bit lighter, have a different surface finish and the last three (I think) sprockets are on a carrier and less likely to gouge the freehub (though that's harder to do on Campagnolo than Shimano freehubs anyway)
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2020, 09:43:46 pm »
I had a quick look and I found Centaur 10s 12-27 in stock at Merlin. Cost is about £80.

Wiggle have the cheaper Veloce 10s cassette (in most ratios but not 12-27) for £37.   

IIRC 12-25 and 12-27 only differ in the largest two sprockets, so if these are not used much and don't wear quickly, you might be able to convert a 12-25 to 12-27 by re-using some of your old sprockets.

I bought 3 Centaur 12-27 cassettes (one for the bike, two spares) from various places, think the most I paid was £69. They're getting a bit hard to find now, though, as I think they may have recently been discontinued.

£72 here:
https://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-cassettes-sprockets/campagnolo-centaur-10-speed-ultradrive-cassette-silver/10864642.html

These are the 10-speed Campagnolo cassette ratios I'm aware of:

 Campagnolo Centaur Cassette Ratios

• 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23
• 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25
• 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25
• 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-27
• 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30 (30T is apparently too large for older derailleurs, though)

Campagnolo Veloce Cassette Ratios

• 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25
• 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
• 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25
• 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26
• 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29

The Centaur cassettes are a bit nicer quality, they're a bit lighter, have a different surface finish (matt nickel-chrome) and the last three (I think) sprockets are on a carrier and less likely to gouge the freehub (though that's harder to do on Campagnolo than Shimano freehubs anyway)
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2020, 10:44:25 pm »
This being campag things are unlikely to be simple.  A quick look has revealed at least three different constructions in centaur 10s cassettes.



All separate sprockets, variable thickness spacers, as per illustration above (2009)

11-25
12-23
12-25
13-26
13-29
14-23

Carrier on two largest sprockets, variable spacers (e.g. 2019 catalogue)
11-23
11-25
12-25
13-26
13-29
14-23

Carrier on largest three sprockets (with uniform spacers and special 17T sprocket, e.g. 2019 catalogue)
12-27
12-30

Veloce 10s cassettes do not appear in the 2019 catalogue, or for quite a few years prior to that.  In the 2007 catalogue a Veloce 10s cassette is listed, in the same ratios as the 2009 Centaur, and with the same construction. Possibly the finish is different between the centaur and veloce versions of this cassette.

cheers

Re: Campagnolo component compatibility
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2020, 04:19:28 pm »
Ahh. You're referring to Campag 12-27 cassettes. Despite using Campag 10s ergo levers and mechs, I use Shimano 9s hubs and cassettes.