Author Topic: Coronavirus and Audax  (Read 32608 times)

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #600 on: March 24, 2020, 08:45:46 am »

What works in one country might not in another.


Why not?

I guess it's not so much that the methods don't work but that there isn't the political will/competence to implement them effectively.
It is not just political will. Here we are on the web openly criticising the government strategy. Our posts are appearing and we are not fearing a knock on the door from the police and a gentle beating.


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Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #601 on: March 24, 2020, 08:50:23 am »

What works in one country might not in another.


Why not?

I guess it's not so much that the methods don't work but that there isn't the political will/competence to implement them effectively.
It is not just political will. Here we are on the web openly criticising the government strategy. Our posts are appearing and we are not fearing a knock on the door from the police and a gentle beating.

That would not, in itself, prevent a testing strategy from taking place or being effective....ask the Chinese. 

Very similar strategy in Germany. Free press, no beatings.



What works in one country might not in another.


Why not?

Behavioural differences
Demographic differences
Geographical differences
Differences in living situations (e.g. places with grandparents living with families vs those that tend not to)
Differences in healthcare capacity
Differences in stock / availability of PPE

Lots of other reasons too I'm sure

Yes to the bolded, although it isnt really a question of testing strategies not working, rather that resources do not allow.

I'm not sure how the other factors you cite would impede a given testing regimen.

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #602 on: March 24, 2020, 09:00:34 am »

What works in one country might not in another.


Why not?

I guess it's not so much that the methods don't work but that there isn't the political will/competence to implement them effectively.
It is not just political will. Here we are on the web openly criticising the government strategy. Our posts are appearing and we are not fearing a knock on the door from the police and a gentle beating.

That would not, in itself, prevent a testing strategy from taking place or being effective....ask the Chinese. 

Very similar strategy in Germany. Free press, no beatings.



What works in one country might not in another.


Why not?

Behavioural differences
Demographic differences
Geographical differences
Differences in living situations (e.g. places with grandparents living with families vs those that tend not to)
Differences in healthcare capacity
Differences in stock / availability of PPE

Lots of other reasons too I'm sure

Yes to the bolded, although it isnt really a question of testing strategies not working, rather that resources do not allow.

I'm not sure how the other factors you cite would impede a given testing regimen.

Dave's post was also about reducing spread and containment of cases, which they would affect.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #603 on: March 24, 2020, 09:01:27 am »
Behavioural differences
Demographic differences
Geographical differences
Differences in living situations (e.g. places with grandparents living with families vs those that tend not to)
Differences in healthcare capacity
Differences in stock / availability of PPE
Lots of other reasons too I'm sure

Those aren't reasons, they're excuses.

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #604 on: March 24, 2020, 09:08:12 am »
The South Korean model of contact tracing predominately through smart phone tracking would not work well in say Nigeria where only 1 in 7 has a smartphone.


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Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #605 on: March 24, 2020, 09:08:39 am »
Behavioural differences
Demographic differences
Geographical differences
Differences in living situations (e.g. places with grandparents living with families vs those that tend not to)
Differences in healthcare capacity
Differences in stock / availability of PPE
Lots of other reasons too I'm sure
Those aren't reasons, they're excuses.

No they're reasons that the strategy different countries take might be different.

Excuses would be to say oh well we can't contain it because of x.

Martin

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #606 on: March 24, 2020, 09:19:23 am »

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #607 on: March 24, 2020, 09:51:51 am »
No they're reasons that the strategy different countries take might be different.

And none of them are necessary or inevitable.

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #608 on: March 24, 2020, 09:56:03 am »
I suppose in comes down to an epidemiological simulation that models the entire country with population density data down to the individual household, or my mate down the pub who thinks we should go for a 4-3-3 formation.


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caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #609 on: March 24, 2020, 10:08:23 am »
The South Korean model of contact tracing predominately through smart phone tracking would not work well in say Nigeria where only 1 in 7 has a smartphone.


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Would kind of, have worked here with the right decision made at the right time though huh?
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
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Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #610 on: March 24, 2020, 10:27:10 am »
The South Korean model of contact tracing predominately through smart phone tracking would not work well in say Nigeria where only 1 in 7 has a smartphone.


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Would kind of, have worked here with the right decision made at the right time though huh?

We don't have enough people watching the dots.  Other countries have rather larger internal intelligence services to do this sort of thing.

And GDPR.
RRTY #7 done.  Need something else to do ... ah, welcome #8 8)

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #611 on: March 24, 2020, 10:27:47 am »
The South Korean model of contact tracing predominately through smart phone tracking would not work well in say Nigeria where only 1 in 7 has a smartphone.


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Would kind of, have worked here with the right decision made at the right time though huh?
I was giving an example of what works in one country might not work in another. Specifically mobile phone tracking here, the experts felt it could not be achieved legally in the timeframe. It is being discussed for the next wave. We have sufficient numbers of smart phones though as a bigger country less 3G coverage. Different populations behave in different ways - South Korea for example has the lowest birth rate of any country in the world which is probably completely irrelevant but interesting.


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Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #612 on: March 24, 2020, 11:53:29 am »
The South Korean model of contact tracing predominately through smart phone tracking would not work well in say Nigeria where only 1 in 7 has a smartphone.


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Would kind of, have worked here with the right decision made at the right time though huh?

We don't have enough people watching the dots.  Other countries have rather larger internal intelligence services to do this sort of thing.

And GDPR.

Laws can be changed...

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #613 on: March 24, 2020, 11:56:58 am »
And GDPR allows pretty much anything to be done if the need is justifiable.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #614 on: March 24, 2020, 03:01:09 pm »
France introduce stricter controls on exercise:-

https://twitter.com/JusticeRules4/status/1242460633955807234

"
France from today:
- 1500 euro fine if out without permit or valid reason
- any visit for health reasons backed by medical certificate.
- 1 hour per day exercise no further than 1 km from home
- Local curfews soon to be decided by mayor & prefectures
Au revoir la liberté.
"

I predict we'll have similar in the UK within two weeks.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #615 on: March 24, 2020, 03:04:10 pm »
Which would you prefer - liberty or DEATH?

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #616 on: March 24, 2020, 03:08:18 pm »
Once upon a time the choice was cake. I liked that much better.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Martin

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #617 on: March 24, 2020, 03:25:34 pm »
probably one for someone living in France but what sort of jobs are peeps still going out to do that they can't do remotely?

Getting very frustrated by remote working, peeps in London can't believe that we live in an area that can't get fibre broadband. Plus going through hoops to actually get to be in front of my work PC with all its programmes I need rather than just glorified chat rooms

caerau

  • SR x 3 - PBP fail but 1090 km - hey - not too bad
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #618 on: March 24, 2020, 04:17:13 pm »
Which would you prefer - liberty or DEATH?


It’s just the flu :demon:


(Yeah I know, just hadn’t heard that for a while ;) )
It's a reverse Elvis thing.

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #619 on: March 24, 2020, 04:36:29 pm »
probably one for someone living in France but what sort of jobs are peeps still going out to do that they can't do remotely?

Getting very frustrated by remote working, peeps in London can't believe that we live in an area that can't get fibre broadband. Plus going through hoops to actually get to be in front of my work PC with all its programmes I need rather than just glorified chat rooms

Gardening, garage services for two. I would also say removals but those are a grey area because they are being actively discouraged. With all the tightening of restrictions some things have eased as well. I am going back to work tomorrow doing gardening jobs for retired old ladies. The only difficult bit will be going into the office to get the necessary authorisation. The boss could have mailed it to me but didn't want to for some reason (probably forgotten how to attach a document to a mail  :facepalm: ). The removals, flat clearances and bed lice elimination is all on hold for the time being.

There are in fact quite a lot of jobs that can't be done over the net. On the other hand there are also those who are simply ill-equipped; my daughter is still walking up to her office in Dourdan because the server can't permit WFH, even though it's all computer based. She's an asthma sufferer so potentially at risk as well. Ile de France seems to have a different attitude to personal security compared to us in Limousin - could be why they are the centre of the epidemy in France (and spreading it to other areas).

edit 18h21: I've received the mail with the authorisations (two of them). Will still have to have the originals from the office tomorrow but at least I'm covered. Sorry Boss :facepalm:

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #620 on: March 24, 2020, 05:21:30 pm »
I would also say removals but those are a grey area because they are being actively discouraged.

If you've exchanged then you're legally obliged to move otherwise you could forego the deposit (usually 10% of the house price) although these should be extenuating circumstances to push the completion date back.

The builders doing some garden work (patio and fencing) were in the garden doing work for the upstairs flat (and finishing off the fence between their garden and ours). I read something on the BBC to say that this kind of stuff was allowed as long as social distancing is taken into consideration. I've loaned one of the builders a bike for the rest of the week so that he doesn't have to use public transport (the others arrive by van).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #621 on: March 24, 2020, 05:32:20 pm »
I would also say removals but those are a grey area because they are being actively discouraged.

If you've exchanged then you're legally obliged to move otherwise you could forego the deposit (usually 10% of the house price) although these should be extenuating circumstances to push the completion date back.

The builders doing some garden work (patio and fencing) were in the garden doing work for the upstairs flat (and finishing off the fence between their garden and ours). I read something on the BBC to say that this kind of stuff was allowed as long as social distancing is taken into consideration. I've loaned one of the builders a bike for the rest of the week so that he doesn't have to use public transport (the others arrive by van).

I was referring to France where there have been measures put in place to allow delays in moving temporarily without too much penalty (on rented accomodation which probably accounts for the majority of removals over here). My daughter is in this situation, new lease signed, notice given to existing landlord. I think she has a deadline date in may so she may be ok but she'll need family help to move, which is the complication with movement restricted (and us 350kms away) I can't say how it affects house sales not entirely understanding how the legalese pans out for them. The problems are caused by movement restrictions!

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #622 on: March 24, 2020, 07:17:21 pm »
I would also say removals but those are a grey area because they are being actively discouraged.

If you've exchanged then you're legally obliged to move otherwise you could forego the deposit (usually 10% of the house price) although these should be extenuating circumstances to push the completion date back.

The builders doing some garden work (patio and fencing) were in the garden doing work for the upstairs flat (and finishing off the fence between their garden and ours). I read something on the BBC to say that this kind of stuff was allowed as long as social distancing is taken into consideration. I've loaned one of the builders a bike for the rest of the week so that he doesn't have to use public transport (the others arrive by van).
Once you have both agreed a contract choosing not to complete could lose some or all of the deposit. However late completion would normally just result in  costs such as loan interest falling on the delaying party. However neither party is at fault if the govt has forbidden the move.


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Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #623 on: March 25, 2020, 08:56:02 am »
I was chatting to someone the other day who is planning to move (UK) in a few weeks time.  She said that they had had a clause inserted in the contract to provide for a delay if either party had to self-isolate.

I wonder if house moves might be delayed, en masse, though?  Hard for removal men to self-isolate.

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #624 on: March 25, 2020, 09:07:04 am »
My downstairs neighbour runs a removal company and he's effectively shuttered it, 95% of the work has disappeared, he's honouring the last of his bookings and not taking on any new work (not that there is any).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."