Author Topic: How much are you riding?  (Read 8237 times)

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2020, 06:30:45 am »
I'm sticking to my 15-mile loop of north London (taking in Muswell Hill, Highgate Hill & Swain's Lane) every 2 days.  Managed a PB on Sunday thanks to lack of traffic!  It's not far but I treat it as a TT so pretty knackering.

Alternate days running in Highbury Fields (still open!).
The NHS guidance is that the exercise currently should only be of moderate intensity. They define moderate intensity as at a level where you can talk but not sing.


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While I totally agree that we should not be overdoing it, as a matter of common sense, if you're going to state 'NHS guidance is..' you need to give an NHS reference. I haven't seen one. I do see some unsubstantiated excerpts from a tabloid newspaper of doubtful credibility, which I will not on principle take seriously. Honestly, we need better than that.

Ah - hadn't spotted it was from the Sun!  I refuse to click the link for moral cleanliness reasons!

And this is DaveF who in another thread is doubting the veracity of advice on the BBC website.  Hilarious!
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

Down near the bottom :-

do light exercise at home, or outside once a day – see NHS fitness studio: exercises you can do at home

I am sure last time it looked it said moderate, now it says light.


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How much are you riding?
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2020, 06:45:41 am »
I'm sticking to my 15-mile loop of north London (taking in Muswell Hill, Highgate Hill & Swain's Lane) every 2 days.  Managed a PB on Sunday thanks to lack of traffic!  It's not far but I treat it as a TT so pretty knackering.

Alternate days running in Highbury Fields (still open!).
The NHS guidance is that the exercise currently should only be of moderate intensity. They define moderate intensity as at a level where you can talk but not sing.


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While I totally agree that we should not be overdoing it, as a matter of common sense, if you're going to state 'NHS guidance is..' you need to give an NHS reference. I haven't seen one. I do see some unsubstantiated excerpts from a tabloid newspaper of doubtful credibility, which I will not on principle take seriously. Honestly, we need better than that.

Ah - hadn't spotted it was from the Sun!  I refuse to click the link for moral cleanliness reasons!

And this is DaveF who in another thread is doubting the veracity of advice on the BBC website.  Hilarious!
Here is the equivalent article from the telegraph. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/can-exercise-boost-immune-system-much-do-without-making/

No doubt similar articles will appear on the bbc too.

On the other thread you were saying “stay local” meant do not cycle a long way from your home. The government guidance only uses the words “stay local” with respect to how far you travel by car to get to where you start a walk. As far as I can see the bbc article says exactly the same, but you seem to say it is about how far you should cycle. I believe you said “what part of stay local do you not understand?” and I said that you were using “stay local” out of context.


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Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2020, 07:21:41 am »
Superseded and disputed by 2018 research.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.00648/full

 It’s disputed so make your own choices, which I know you will be doing anyway.
I am not sure “superseded” is the correct word. The mainstream view is still that high intensity exercise causes a short window of reduced immune system function, but exercise, including high intensity, has long term benefits to the immune system. That paper concludes there is not much evidence for the first part and there is more evidence, including new data from the author, for the second part. Most of the couple of dozen citations seems to either be disagreeing with the conclusion about the first part or agreeing with the second part. Science needs mavericks, even ones that for example question climate change, but ultimately it is the consensus we should all listen too.


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S2L

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2020, 07:43:58 am »
Superseded and disputed by 2018 research.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.00648/full

 It’s disputed so make your own choices, which I know you will be doing anyway.
I am not sure “superseded” is the correct word. The mainstream view is still that high intensity exercise causes a short window of reduced immune system function, but exercise, including high intensity, has long term benefits to the immune system. That paper concludes there is not much evidence for the first part and there is more evidence, including new data from the author, for the second part. Most of the couple of dozen citations seems to either be disagreeing with the conclusion about the first part or agreeing with the second part. Science needs mavericks, even ones that for example question climate change, but ultimately it is the consensus we should all listen too.


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So basically, if you do high intensity, then don't go to the supermarket until the day after...  :thumbsup:

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2020, 07:54:10 am »
Superseded and disputed by 2018 research.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2018.00648/full

 It’s disputed so make your own choices, which I know you will be doing anyway.
I am not sure “superseded” is the correct word. The mainstream view is still that high intensity exercise causes a short window of reduced immune system function, but exercise, including high intensity, has long term benefits to the immune system. That paper concludes there is not much evidence for the first part and there is more evidence, including new data from the author, for the second part. Most of the couple of dozen citations seems to either be disagreeing with the conclusion about the first part or agreeing with the second part. Science needs mavericks, even ones that for example question climate change, but ultimately it is the consensus we should all listen too.


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So basically, if you do high intensity, then don't go to the supermarket until the day after...  :thumbsup:
Difficult to know. 3-72hours after but also before. Other reasons against high intensity exercise is accident (cf British cycling) and the increased risk of sudden cardiac arrest. People will ignore it anyway but the general advice is take it easy.


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S2L

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2020, 08:06:01 am »

Difficult to know. 3-72hours after but also before. Other reasons against high intensity exercise is accident (cf British cycling) and the increased risk of sudden cardiac arrest. People will ignore it anyway but the general advice is take it easy.


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My experience of catching airways viruses (the common cold) is that I was keener when doing lots of miles in cold weather, not necessarily high intensity, just lots of hours on the bike before/after mixing with my students. Generally feeling tired, maybe not eating particularly well and overall a bit run down

This year my commute has been a lot shorter and health-wise it has been a lot better.

Which reinforces my belief that too many hours on the bike are not good, especially when it's cold... intensity doesn't seem to be an issue, as long as I keep it short...

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2020, 08:15:52 am »

Difficult to know. 3-72hours after but also before. Other reasons against high intensity exercise is accident (cf British cycling) and the increased risk of sudden cardiac arrest. People will ignore it anyway but the general advice is take it easy.


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My experience of catching airways viruses (the common cold) is that I was keener when doing lots of miles in cold weather, not necessarily high intensity, just lots of hours on the bike before/after mixing with my students. Generally feeling tired, maybe not eating particularly well and overall a bit run down

This year my commute has been a lot shorter and health-wise it has been a lot better.

Which reinforces my belief that too many hours on the bike are not good, especially when it's cold... intensity doesn't seem to be an issue, as long as I keep it short...
Yep, that too. endurance events though at not at high intensity have an even longer window of depressed immunity. So no extremes of intensity or duration for the time being.


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Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2020, 08:30:48 am »
As feeble as I am, It is/was quite common for me to come down with a lurgy the week after doing an Audax.

So much so, that I now carry a 1000mg VitC & Quercetin tablet with me on long rides to pop about 2/3rds in. Probably hokum, but I certainly worry less about "Oh god, what's that?" with every sniff or clearing of my throat.

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2020, 09:39:21 am »
I stopped picking up regular sniffles/colds after exercise when I started having a big dose of protein after finishing.[1] It also helps that it acts as a reward, I've no problem admitting that sometimes the only reason I go out for a scheduled run is because I get to drink some chocolate milk when I get home.

I think there's a few mentions of it in Michael Hutchinson's Faster and the Brownlees were famously fueled by chocolate milk early on in their career.

For Audax I'd finish and try to source something like a Frijj milkshake from a train station or petrol station.

1. This often appears in "exercise myths debunked" lists but that often concerns the immediacy of the protein intake, most places agree that increased protein intake is a good thing. Anyway, it works for me.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2020, 09:46:04 am »
I tend to run on protein during the rides anyway. Carbs/sugars give me big bursts of energy followed by miserable crashes.

A Choc milk and Pork Pie pitstop at a garage is heavenly. 


Phil W

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2020, 11:12:23 am »
I'm sticking to my 15-mile loop of north London (taking in Muswell Hill, Highgate Hill & Swain's Lane) every 2 days.  Managed a PB on Sunday thanks to lack of traffic!  It's not far but I treat it as a TT so pretty knackering.

Alternate days running in Highbury Fields (still open!).
The NHS guidance is that the exercise currently should only be of moderate intensity. They define moderate intensity as at a level where you can talk but not sing.


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While I totally agree that we should not be overdoing it, as a matter of common sense, if you're going to state 'NHS guidance is..' you need to give an NHS reference. I haven't seen one. I do see some unsubstantiated excerpts from a tabloid newspaper of doubtful credibility, which I will not on principle take seriously. Honestly, we need better than that.

Ah - hadn't spotted it was from the Sun!  I refuse to click the link for moral cleanliness reasons!

And this is DaveF who in another thread is doubting the veracity of advice on the BBC website.  Hilarious!
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

Down near the bottom :-

do light exercise at home, or outside once a day – see NHS fitness studio: exercises you can do at home

I am sure last time it looked it said moderate, now it says light.


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We have to remember whom NHS advice is aimed at. A vastly majority population who do not exercise at all.  So light exercise would be advisable for a normally sedentary individual.

TimC

  • Bike (ex)pilot
Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2020, 01:53:55 pm »
I'm sticking to my 15-mile loop of north London (taking in Muswell Hill, Highgate Hill & Swain's Lane) every 2 days.  Managed a PB on Sunday thanks to lack of traffic!  It's not far but I treat it as a TT so pretty knackering.

Alternate days running in Highbury Fields (still open!).
The NHS guidance is that the exercise currently should only be of moderate intensity. They define moderate intensity as at a level where you can talk but not sing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

While I totally agree that we should not be overdoing it, as a matter of common sense, if you're going to state 'NHS guidance is..' you need to give an NHS reference. I haven't seen one. I do see some unsubstantiated excerpts from a tabloid newspaper of doubtful credibility, which I will not on principle take seriously. Honestly, we need better than that.

Ah - hadn't spotted it was from the Sun!  I refuse to click the link for moral cleanliness reasons!

And this is DaveF who in another thread is doubting the veracity of advice on the BBC website.  Hilarious!
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

Down near the bottom :-

do light exercise at home, or outside once a day – see NHS fitness studio: exercises you can do at home

I am sure last time it looked it said moderate, now it says light.


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I note that’s in the ‘advice to everybody’ section, and I read that as advising everyone to do at least light exercise daily, not limit your exercise to only light exercise. I see no limits regulated anywhere, and only one opinion from our political masters (Gove) on what the duration might be. I’m not making a case for riding long distances, or going out and doing intense interval training, I’m simply saying there are no published limits or guidelines, and that we must each make our own decisions as to what’s appropriate. For me, my normal regime works well and is unlikely to raise any eyebrows!

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2020, 03:49:27 pm »
Quarter of the population currently does no exercise rising to half in older people. The normal nhs advice is a weekly minimum of 150 minutes of moderate exercise or 75 minutes of vigorous exercise. The current nhs advice is light exercise. The advice I thought had been published was moderate exercise and avoid intense exercise but I can no longer find it. Remember of course the nhs definition of moderate intensity is being able to hold a conversation and so it self regulates based on fitness. For some people that might be a brisk walk, others a jog. Some I know can hold a conversation at 6 min a mile.


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Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #63 on: April 10, 2020, 07:53:48 am »
I have seen one or two comments referring exercise being restricted to an hour.  This is in fact a myth and something repeated by certain media channels but is not based on fact.   Government has not specified the amount of time permitted for exercise.  Please take time read its guidance or The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England), Regulations 2020 where permitted activities and power of arrest, etc, can be found.   These outline permitted activities in law and not by media or personal opinion.   We should be careful not to perpetuate misinformation.

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #64 on: April 10, 2020, 04:30:31 pm »
The law simply says you must not leave your home unless you have a reasonable excuse and exercise is one example given. Whether exercising by going out to play darts several times a day or going fishing are reasonable is not specified. There is considerable official guidance both written and in response to questions at the daily briefings on what forms of exercise, frequency and duration are reasonable. It is not law but it is likely to influence what the police or a court consider reasonable.


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Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #65 on: April 10, 2020, 05:57:42 pm »
I have seen one or two comments referring exercise being restricted to an hour.  This is in fact a myth and something repeated by certain media channels but is not based on fact.   Government has not specified the amount of time permitted for exercise.  Please take time read its guidance or The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England), Regulations 2020 where permitted activities and power of arrest, etc, can be found.   These outline permitted activities in law and not by media or personal opinion.   We should be careful not to perpetuate misinformation.
There's a twitter posting of a South Yorkshire Policewoman telling a bloke that he can't play/exercise
with his kids in his own front garden.
https://twitter.com/grandad1975/status/1248247686563631104

TimC

  • Bike (ex)pilot
Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #66 on: April 10, 2020, 09:11:00 pm »
The law simply says you must not leave your home unless you have a reasonable excuse and exercise is one example given. Whether exercising by going out to play darts several times a day or going fishing are reasonable is not specified. There is considerable official guidance both written and in response to questions at the daily briefings on what forms of exercise, frequency and duration are reasonable. It is not law but it is likely to influence what the police or a court consider reasonable.

Firstly, opinions are not law. Exercise is not given 'as an example' of why you may leave your home, it is a specifically and legally mandated reason. No legal guidance whatsoever is given about duration, but you may only do it once a day. Cycling for shopping or commuting does not count for that once a day. There is no ambiguity about whether or not you are exercising when you are riding a bicycle, and I can't see anyone getting that interested in whether or not your ride counts as sufficiently close to home as long as you are actually riding your bike, and not carrying it on a motor vehicle. Conclusion: ride your bike if you want to, on your own, away from population, and at an intensity and for a duration that you feel is appropriate. My guess is you'll never be called upon to justify it.

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #67 on: April 10, 2020, 09:16:49 pm »
Just out of interest, has anyone been stopped by the police yet ?

I’ve seen the odd police car, but there has been no interest.

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #68 on: April 10, 2020, 10:36:58 pm »
Just out of interest, has anyone been stopped by the police yet ?.

I thought I was about to be stopped a couple of weeks ago, before the advice was a bit clearer. I was riding from home to the outskirts of Dundee to deliver a birthday present to a friend (well to her doorstep) who is a carer for her mum. It's a round trip of about 60km. Rounding a bend on a lane near Dundee, here comes a polis car towards me... as they slowed right down and gave me a long hard stare, I started to mentally rehearse my defence. Then they flashed their headlights, gave me a big grin and a thumbs up and sped off.  :thumbsup:  8)

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #69 on: April 10, 2020, 10:41:38 pm »
Just out of interest, has anyone been stopped by the police yet ?

i was. there was a tractor installing road blocks and the police kept me stopped until it was safe to proceed.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #70 on: April 10, 2020, 10:44:31 pm »
I'm doing 30 to 40 k local loops every day.

They include the club (cancelled) Evening League TT courses, and I've TTd one of them already, the 10 mile.
I'm doing a solo Not The Evening League.
25 next week, I think.

At the weekend, Mrs F, Junior and I will do local 100k loops.


Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #71 on: April 10, 2020, 10:49:09 pm »
The law simply says you must not leave your home unless you have a reasonable excuse and exercise is one example given. Whether exercising by going out to play darts several times a day or going fishing are reasonable is not specified. There is considerable official guidance both written and in response to questions at the daily briefings on what forms of exercise, frequency and duration are reasonable. It is not law but it is likely to influence what the police or a court consider reasonable.

Firstly, opinions are not law. Exercise is not given 'as an example' of why you may leave your home, it is a specifically and legally mandated reason. No legal guidance whatsoever is given about duration, but you may only do it once a day. Cycling for shopping or commuting does not count for that once a day. There is no ambiguity about whether or not you are exercising when you are riding a bicycle, and I can't see anyone getting that interested in whether or not your ride counts as sufficiently close to home as long as you are actually riding your bike, and not carrying it on a motor vehicle. Conclusion: ride your bike if you want to, on your own, away from population, and at an intensity and for a duration that you feel is appropriate. My guess is you'll never be called upon to justify it.
Why must you do it only once a day ?


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TimC

  • Bike (ex)pilot
Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #72 on: April 10, 2020, 10:54:28 pm »
Read and inwardly digest: Coronaviruus FAQs: What You Can and Can't Do. The important instruction is: one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household.

Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #73 on: April 10, 2020, 11:10:46 pm »
The legislation says “to exercise alone or with members of your household”. It does not specify form, duration or frequency.

The form,duration and frequency is given in guidance both oral and written as to what is reasonable.

You can argue that doing a 600km bike ride or playing darts 6 times a day is a reasonable excuse, as the legislation says reasonable excuses include “exercise alone or with members of your family”. I suspect you would fail in both cases. You could argue that the 600km bike ride is more reasonable than darts because the written guidance says once a day and cycling and the guidance on duration was only given orally in response to a question. I am not sure legally there is a great deal of difference.

I agree it is unlikely this to ever be tested.


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TimC

  • Bike (ex)pilot
Re: How much are you riding?
« Reply #74 on: April 10, 2020, 11:28:49 pm »
Dave, I disagree. There are opinions given by all sorts of people as to what is 'reasonable'. None of that forms part of the law, nor does it constitute official guidance (I will allow an exception for Scotland, where I believe official guidance has been given). In fact, the word 'reasonable' does not appear anywhere in the Government instruction (which is law, not guidance). It does, however, specify 'once a day'.

At the end of the day, it's down to your own judgement and conscience what is acceptable and appropriate. It's not for me or you to attempt to influence anyone towards any particular answer, though it may be ok to suggest factors they might like to bring into consideration while they're making that personal judgement. Nor is it ok to say 'this is what I'm doing; you should not be doing more'. I have my own opinions of what is appropriate, and I will apply that to my own riding. It may be more or less than your judgement, but that's ok. If the law changes, I'll adapt to whatever the new instructions are. If that's a total ban, so be it.