Author Topic: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?  (Read 14878 times)

ian

  • feat. Undead Jess & Finestre, Queen of Hell
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2020, 12:33:57 pm »
That's not really what I'm saying though. Sure, someone can do 70mph in a 20 zone. But limiting speed to 70 mph means they can't do 80 mph.

I'm happy for people to race fast cars, I'm sure it's fun. I just don't want them doing it on a public road.

The technology for designing and constructing speed-limited vehicles exists. Just because vehicles can go fast, doesn't mean they should be allowed to. And that's the statement we should be making. I shouldn't have to tell cyclists that hearing a car speeding from behind, hearing it move up the gears, the increasing growl of rpm, is one of the worst sensations there is.
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2020, 12:52:11 pm »
Then fine, if people want to own racing cars, they can go to a track and race away. I don't want them on public roads. The maximum speed limit on the public highway in the UK is 70mph, so why should cars be able to go faster?
My italic added. Japanese domestic market cars tend to be limited to 112mph (no idea why that number) so it's possible to electronically limit cars to a given speed, and I think it would make sense to do so. It makes sense to build cars to be capable of going significantly faster, because if you want to do 70mph at 3,000rpm (for fuel economy and NVH reasons), but the car is capable of 6,000 rpm, your gearing would take you to 140mph. Hell, even my single gear EV is supposedly capable of 85. Also, fundamentally, the person doing 73 in a 20 zone is clearly more likely to KSI other people than the one doing 119 in a 60 zone. No speed limiter is going to be able to stop that without significant AI.

To be fair, the EU is mandating Intelligent Speed Assistance on new cars.  Yes, the driver can override it, but that only works when the driver in front has done so too.  I expect it will become harder to override as the technology improves (my experience of driving a car so equipped is that it can occasionally be confused by signage on service roads and the like).  I think that's much more useful than a hard limit of top speed, as most of the danger comes from people doing 40 where they should be doing 20.
If the tech works, then that's great. Much like with the emergency brake assist, there is potential for big scary accidents if it gets confused (hypothetical eg sees black bag blowing around on motorway, does emergency stop, likewise 5mph service road). However, around town there is an argument it should be mandatory (maybe if there is no road with a limit > 20mph more within half a mile or something). Then all those people who PCP giant new SUVs can drive around being "held up" by their technology and "holding up" the rest of traffic. :)
If it's EU law though, our lot of useless idiots will probably turn it off on the grounds of FREEDOM.  ::-)
Mr Charly otp has related an incident where automatic emergency braking saved him from crashing into a scooter on a rainy, spray-filled motorway. Possibly saved the scooterist's life, certainly injuries. And that was a car he didn't even know had that technology (it was a hire car or one work gave him or something). I'm sure a search will fail to find it because the search engine is pants but maybe Mr Charly himself will relate it with relevant details.

Anecdote aside, is emergency braking by computer any more likely to cause a crash (I presume we're thinking of rear ending) than emergency braking by human? The following driver will be equally prepared or unprepared in both cases.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2020, 01:17:04 pm »
Holy Hyperbole, Bantam.

Machine guns get you from A-B? Carry shopping and tools and stuff?
Here's a car this is masculine?
No hyperbole here. Motorists kill 1.3 million people a year, and hospitalized or maim many many more. This is approximately triple the world's annual death toll of homicides (including "civil" murder and in warzones) which are approximately 400,000 or so.

All cars are repulsive machines as far as I'm concerned. The living embodiment of one person's entitlement to maraud around neighbourhoods causing a hideous racket, belching toxic fumes and brake particulate while intimidating or maiming/killing someone walking or cycling. They are a menace. I absolutely fucking hate them. Just hearing them roll around outside my home fills me with anger. My mum was hit and run about 5 years ago 20 yards from the front door. When I was growing up I went and visited my dad in hospital with half his face scraped off from "accidents" when he was on a bike.

It particularly upsets me how these people (who are relatively speaking, a privileged minority) frighten others into not using their own roads on a cycle or whatever.

Which reminds me. I need to see about modally filtering the road with big sacks of gravel or something.
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Ban cars.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2020, 01:22:36 pm »
Yes and no round here
Seems people feeling no need to be in a hurry are less pressed to pass dodgily
While people who still want to get somewhere quickly no matter what even if it's just their sofa are still as dickish as ever.

I've noted that own my driving home is considerably more relaxed than driving to work, but then if I got up in time that I wasn't pushing it for getting in at 10...

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2020, 01:27:21 pm »
Holy Hyperbole, Bantam.

Machine guns get you from A-B? Carry shopping and tools and stuff?
Here's a car this is masculine?
No hyperbole here. Motorists kill 1.3 million people a year, and hospitalized or maim many many more. This is approximately triple the world's annual death toll of homicides (including "civil" murder and in warzones) which are approximately 400,000 or so.

All cars are repulsive machines as far as I'm concerned. The living embodiment of one person's entitlement to maraud around neighbourhoods causing a hideous racket, belching toxic fumes and brake particulate while intimidating or maiming/killing someone walking or cycling. They are a menace. I absolutely fucking hate them. Just hearing them roll around outside my home fills me with anger. My mum was hit and run about 5 years ago 20 yards from the front door. When I was growing up I went and visited my dad in hospital with half his face scraped off from "accidents" when he was on a bike.

It particularly upsets me how these people (who are relatively speaking, a privileged minority) frighten others into not using their own roads on a cycle or whatever.

Which reminds me. I need to see about modally filtering the road with big sacks of gravel or something.
Another tale.

I spent a Summer assigned to the shop floor of the Royal Small Arms Factory in Enfield, in the foremen's office.

One lunchtime I (snotty nosed student engineer) asked how they all felt about working in a factory that built killing machines (I may have used a slightly less emotive term than that). To a man (absolutely no women anywhere in sight) they rather heatedly responded that the cars made a few miles down the road in Dagenham killed way more people than the product they were knocking out.
Rust never sleeps

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2020, 01:34:06 pm »
I don't endorse the arms industry either but they weren't wrong.

Academia is full of institutions and research centres about stopping people from shooting and stabbing each other. But you mention the people marauding around in legal vehicles frightening, killing and maiming three times as many (or much more in "developed" countries) it goes awfully quiet.
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Ban cars.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2020, 01:44:16 pm »
Stairs kill people too. 1000s of pensioners a year and nobody gives a fuck.

I get so fucking angry about the fact that my house has some...fitted by a selfish entitled person who just thought they could install this killing machine with no consequences for future inhabitants.

They should be ripped out of all houses by law.


FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2020, 01:52:21 pm »
Another tale.

I spent a Summer assigned to the shop floor of the Royal Small Arms Factory in Enfield, in the foremen's office.

One lunchtime I (snotty nosed student engineer) asked how they all felt about working in a factory that built killing machines (I may have used a slightly less emotive term than that). To a man (absolutely no women anywhere in sight) they rather heatedly responded that the cars made a few miles down the road in Dagenham killed way more people than the product they were knocking out.

Used to work with someone that had once worked for a tobacco company.
Part of their employment routine was to ask you if you had any moral concerns about working in tobacco, obviously anyone who had a problem with it wouldn't be suitable.
Apparently wasn't just about cancer sticks, but also other things nicotine ends up in, like kids breakfast cereals in some places...

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2020, 01:56:56 pm »
Holy Hyperbole, Bantam.

Machine guns get you from A-B? Carry shopping and tools and stuff?
Here's a car this is masculine?
No hyperbole here. Motorists kill 1.3 million people a year, and hospitalized or maim many many more. This is approximately triple the world's annual death toll of homicides (including "civil" murder and in warzones) which are approximately 400,000 or so.

All cars are repulsive machines as far as I'm concerned. The living embodiment of one person's entitlement to maraud around neighbourhoods causing a hideous racket, belching toxic fumes and brake particulate while intimidating or maiming/killing someone walking or cycling. They are a menace. I absolutely fucking hate them. Just hearing them roll around outside my home fills me with anger. My mum was hit and run about 5 years ago 20 yards from the front door. When I was growing up I went and visited my dad in hospital with half his face scraped off from "accidents" when he was on a bike.

It particularly upsets me how these people (who are relatively speaking, a privileged minority) frighten others into not using their own roads on a cycle or whatever.

Which reminds me. I need to see about modally filtering the road with big sacks of gravel or something.

Like I said, hyperbole.  :thumbsup:
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2020, 02:03:29 pm »
Stairs kill people too. 1000s of pensioners a year and nobody gives a fuck.

I get so fucking angry about the fact that my house has some...fitted by a selfish entitled person who just thought they could install this killing machine with no consequences for future inhabitants.

They should be ripped out of all houses by law.
Pensioners should have their homes made safe. E.g. by fitting a stairs lift. Stairs used to kill many more people than they did today, before building codes standardised step heights etc. Still unsafe though. If you've ever studied building management you'll know that all professionals worth their salt will design out repeated stairs use from working patterns.



Whataboutery isn't a valid reason to frighten people with your death cage, causing a horrendous racket, belching out poison and running over the odd toddler or someone getting the groceries on the bike.

Ban cars.
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Ban cars.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2020, 02:15:31 pm »
Stairs are really useful for going...err...upstairs.

Cars are really useful too.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2020, 02:22:35 pm »
Definitely run over odd toddlers.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2020, 02:22:41 pm »
'Really useful' for the driver. Half of Londoners don't have access to a car - even more so in the inner London boroughs. We're the ones who have selfish motorists forcing us to put up with their poison fumes, noise pollution, and threatening to run us over and kill us. Not to mention demanding free, on-street car storage. Bring your ghastly car to my neighbourhood and I'll polish it with a U lock.
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Ban cars.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2020, 02:26:44 pm »
Have you tried riding along with a screwdriver in your hand, just in case any cars get too close? 

Best wear a wig if you do, to avoid being recognised.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2020, 02:27:52 pm »
Locks are much better you can take a wing mirror clean off. Or just smash in a rear light.
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Ban cars.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2020, 02:53:34 pm »
'Really useful' for the driver. Half of Londoners don't have access to a car - even more so in the inner London boroughs. We're the ones who have selfish motorists forcing us to put up with their poison fumes, noise pollution, and threatening to run us over and kill us. Not to mention demanding free, on-street car storage. Bring your ghastly car to my neighbourhood and I'll polish it with a U lock.

There are c130 deaths per year on London's roads, with a population of c8.9m
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2020, 02:58:01 pm »
Yep. And how many more hospitalised, traumatised and maimed? It is unacceptable. Let alone the c. 30,000 early deaths a year from the air pollution.

Ban cars.
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Ban cars.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2020, 03:00:19 pm »
Ban cars in London. Good idea. Possibly workable.

Outside London, nope.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2020, 03:00:42 pm »
Rubbish. Fewer than 20% of people live non-urbanly.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rural-population-and-migration/rural-population-201415

It is imperative that the majority be protected from the pollution and menace of the driving 'elite'. Keep your cars out of our neighbourhoods.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD



Ban cars.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2020, 03:00:59 pm »
Have you tried riding along with a screwdriver in your hand, just in case any cars get too close? 

Best wear a wig if you do, to avoid being recognised.

The frock.
You forgot to mention the frock.
 ;D

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2020, 03:02:24 pm »
Have you tried riding along with a screwdriver in your hand, just in case any cars get too close? 

Best wear a wig if you do, to avoid being recognised.

The frock.
You forgot to mention the frock.
 ;D

I'm still haunted by the frock.

Still, I think we have found the reincarnation of B&W, dont you  ;)

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2020, 03:03:22 pm »
Mr Charly otp has related an incident where automatic emergency braking saved him from crashing into a scooter on a rainy, spray-filled motorway. Possibly saved the scooterist's life, certainly injuries. And that was a car he didn't even know had that technology (it was a hire car or one work gave him or something). I'm sure a search will fail to find it because the search engine is pants but maybe Mr Charly himself will relate it with relevant details.

Anecdote aside, is emergency braking by computer any more likely to cause a crash (I presume we're thinking of rear ending) than emergency braking by human? The following driver will be equally prepared or unprepared in both cases.
Yeah that's a fairly accurate description.

Hire car, tired driver, excellent conditions. Scooter rider riding very slowly on dual carriageway, in centre of lane. Car started slowing before I could see the scooter and set off an alarm. 
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2020, 03:04:49 pm »
Going back to the OP (I'm sure there's a place for discussing whether we hate cars somewhere else on the forum), my anecdotal and generalised  input is that drivers are being a little more tolerant of pedestrians and cyclists but otherwise are behaving much the same as normal and driving as fast as the road conditions (not speed limits) will allow.

There's a notable increase in speed on the A20 near me (at which point it is still a two lane urban road with shops and houses, not the motorway it becomes further out of London), offset only by the reduced traffic. On the 20mph residential streets, typical speeds I'd say are about normal, i.e. 30-35mph, with some spectacular exceptions.

Will it last? I doubt it.
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2020, 03:06:39 pm »
Rubbish. Fewer than 20% of people live non-urbanly.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rural-population-and-migration/rural-population-201415
Not rubbish at all.
I've not needed a car in London since '88.
And no motorbike for the last 11 years.
It's just as quick (if not quicker) to get around London by bicycle or on the robust public transport system.
Outside of London the public transport system is not so good, so there's maybe a reason for using a car.

Re: Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?
« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2020, 03:09:38 pm »
Rubbish. Fewer than 20% of people live non-urbanly.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rural-population-and-migration/rural-population-201415

It is imperative that the majority be protected from the pollution and menace of the driving 'elite'. Keep your cars out of our neighbourhoods.

87% of UK households have a car.  So they arent the 'elite', they are the norm.

The 'elite' are those (in London) who have access to a hugely subsidised and effective public transport system that can render them quickly and cheaply to where they want to go.

Out here? If I want to get to work by public transport I have to take 2 buses and walk 30 minutes. Oh, and I have to set off the night before.

I'll just take the 20 minute car drive, if that is ok with you.