Lockdown - has it made driving slower and drivers more courteous?

[TimC]

I've just been into the local market town for my weekly shop at the Co-op. Despite the Co-op being one of only two shops open in town (the other is the Boots pharmacy), traffic in town, and to and from town, was pretty much normal.

Despite my disagreement with Bludger's simplistic 'ban cars' mantra, tonight myself and the committee of my cycling club will be referencing the amended Traffic Management Act 2004 linked above to press the local council to close the High Street to vehicular traffic and consider installing protected cycle lanes and wider footways to enable easier cycling and walking access to the High Street from outside and within the town.

[Hot Flatus]

I think we all want fewer cars, less encroachment on our local spaces, and more responsible driving, don't we?

But we all know we aren't going to get it by shouting, screaming, stampy foot tantrums and ridiculous nay pathetic statements of hatred and accusations of murderous intent directed towards anybody behind a wheel. All that serves to do is put people's backs up, stop them listening, and be less likely to engage. I think most of us learned that soon after potty training, didn't we?

The current discussion of reducing car traffic has been brought about by the conditions of lockdown, the reduced driving and the increase in cycling and is nothing to do with Bludger's psychotic episodes. That kind of shite gets in the way of progress. People need to be brought on board and co-opted into the discussion rather than be alienated by an assault of spittle-flecked rage. I think the reaction of the people in this thread is evidence enough.

[Jurek]

I've just walked 10 minutes to a shop on the South Circular.
Traffic on the South Circ is as Hot Flatus and TimC describe it above.
I can't see this ending well.
Agreed that while most of us probably want to see fewer cars and less traffic, neither is going to happen as the result of any campaign for an outright ban.
Energy expended on that could doubtless, be put to better use elsewhere.

[ian]

Closing our local high street to through traffic would be amazing (and a boon for the town) – sadly there's little will to make it happen. The council and shop owners are in a declining spiral of what if happen if everyone can't drive there – missing the obvious fact that they can now and quite obviously don't. Facilitating people driving through has no benefits, they're all driving somewhere else (there's a bypass that through traffic can use).

Honestly, it's not visionary thinking. It's the simple, obvious stuff again and the willingness to ride out the usual motormouth responses.

[Hot Flatus]

Agreed that while most of us probably want to see fewer cars and less traffic, neither is going to happen as the result of any campaign for an outright ban.
Energy expended on that could doubtless, be put to better use elsewhere.

It is worse than that. Calling for an outright ban whilst labelling motorists with a stream of aggressive invective will just end the discussion. Why? Because the people being labelled are the majority, and the invective is bullshit.

[ian]

To be fair though, if you ban cars, how will disabled peopled with fridges full of tools get about, eh? Eh? Those hippy cyclists have no answer to that.

[bludger]

It takes no energy at all to campaign to ban cars.

"Ban cars."

There. Easy.

[Cudzoziemiec]

"Ban cars" is a war cry. It seeks conflict and belongs on the battlefield. That's never a good place to want to be, especially when you're bound to lose.

[bludger]

I expect the same was said of "stop the child murder."

Oh and by the way we are winning, as of today's news. (The FT headline was "cars banned.,.")

[Jurek]

It takes no energy at all to campaign to ban cars.

"Ban cars."

There. Easy.

Do you not think that your campaign might benefit from expanding a bit beyond 'ban cars'?


On my 10 minute walk along the South Circ, in the space of ~100m I passed eleven shops.
Eight, yes eight, of these are permanently closed.
I can't see the 'derelict high street' situation in Forest Hill changing, whilst the current volume of traffic continues to bisect it.
ETA - That's as an aside from out-of-town shopping and retail sheds.

[bludger]

That sounds like an awful lot of work. I'm sticking with ban cars for the time being that's quite easy.

[Jurek]

That sounds like an awful lot of work. I'm sticking with ban cars for the time being that's quite easy.

Tops! 
Keep at it.
While you are doing that, some of the rest of us, will try to deal with some of the more challenging issues that appear to be an awful lot of work.

[Jaded]

It takes a peculiar approach to come onto a forum that is generally left of centre and pro non motorised transport, and basically piss people off.

If you really mean business go to Pistonheads and the Daily Mail comments section.

[Hot Flatus]

Oh and by the way we are winning, as of today's news. (The FT headline was "cars banned.,.")

That win is nothing to do with you. You are a hindrance.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I expect the same was said of "stop the child murder."

Oh and by the way we are winning, as of today's news. (The FT headline was "cars banned.,.")

"Would you like your children to be able to walk to school?" 99% of parents will say yes. You've begun to gain consensus. Then you explore how they can walk to school, what needs to be done. Step by step create a world where for most people, doing most things, it's easier and more desirable not to use a car. But you won't have done it, people will have done it for themselves because they want to. It takes a long time, but not as long as fighting an unwinnable war (and you live to see it).

[bludger]

Go right ahead and do that. Don't let me stop you.

I won't stop "ban cars" though.

[Hot Flatus]

...like a piss-trousered tramp shouting at passers-by from shop doorways

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Flatus’ contributions are always so classy and restrained.

[sg37409]

Despite my disagreement with Bludger's simplistic 'ban cars' mantra, tonight myself and the committee of my cycling club will be referencing the amended Traffic Management Act 2004 linked above to press the local council to close the High Street to vehicular traffic

So you do want to start banning cars.... Is it the delivery  rather than the message you dont like then ?
 

[Hot Flatus]

He doesnt want to ban cars. He wants to close his high street to vehicular traffic. And no, it isnt the same thing.

[Davef]

One major difference between hanging (or fox hunting) and car ownership is the latter directly affects the voters. You can have a strong opinion about hanging (or fox hunting) but unless you are a convicted murderer (or fox hunter, or fox) it does not affect you directly. You are then more likely to be swayed by more mundane matters.


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[TimC]

He doesnt want to ban cars. He wants to close his high street to vehicular traffic. And no, it isnt the same thing.

Exactly. And to do it in line with the Government’s plea for us to enable active travel as much as possible. I’ve no desire or intent to stop people using their cars in the town (though I’d love them to use them less), but I do want to make the process of getting to the centre of town, and getting about while there, as easy for walkers and cyclists as possible so that they are persuaded not to use their cars in the first place for short-distance journeys. As lots of towns have found, pedestrianised high streets - even if only for the majority of the working day - make the place a lot more pleasant and increase footfall for shops. Add some decent bike parking and cycle routes in and out, and we might make a material difference. We’ll see how it goes.

[bludger]

Good luck with banning the cars from the high street Tim  hasta la victoria!

[S2L]

Re. banning cars...

I thought long and hard about getting rid of our car, but I can see a lot of downsides and situations where the car has been extremely useful and irreplaceable.

I don't know how I would be able to go to the local recycling centre to dispose of stuff that doesn't get collected by the council... wood, rubble, large cardboard boxes, metal, broken electric appliances etc... or go to the garden centre and buy a bag of soil

During lockdown, a car has been extremely useful to go to the supermarket and shop for a full week, as opposed to the two days we were used to shop previously... that might have even kept us alive...

With public transport out of use, I have no idea how else we would be able to travel... even with public transport on, many places you might want to visit are off limits

The ban cars rant is the usual London-centric view of folks that are used to have everything by their door step, live in microscopic flats with no garden and therefore don't need to buy or dispose of large items. They only head out of their neighbourhood for leisure on their bicycle, otherwise they are enclosed in their social bubble. Trains go everywhere from London, so why would you need a car?

[Peat]

^good, rational post.

In response to the OP. No. Far fewer cars around but the frequency of bum clenching overtakes has increased.

I live in a small (but growing quickly) town which the amenities are lagging behind. I'm dreading when McDonalds re-opens in the next town over, because that seems to attract the teenagers in their suped up hatchbacks. The same ones I see skimming my elbows at 100mph and can hear hooning around late into the night. When McD's is back, I fear the roads East of me will immediately return to the dangerous mess they were before.