Author Topic: Another free hub question  (Read 378 times)

Another free hub question
« on: May 09, 2020, 04:25:49 pm »
Can someone fill me in regarding Shimano (and compatible) freehubs and cassettes - the normal ones; steel, not alloy, not Dura Ace etc. So;

Are 8,9,10 speed freehubs are basically the same?
So 8 & 9 speed cassettes fit straight on?
10 speed need a 0.5mm spacer?
11 speed won't fit?

11 speed Freehubs are wider than 10 speed so that to fit a 10 speed cassette needs a 1.5mm spacer?
What about 8 & 9 speed cassettes with an 11 speed freehub?

Thanks






I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Another free hub question
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2020, 04:36:38 pm »
I can tell you about Shimano 105 5800 (steel freehub) which I've used personally. And a fine hub it is too.

8 speed (Shimano claris) works fine with a spacer. Its spec sheet says it is 11S compatible.

Shimano tiagra 10 speed and 105 r7000 (11 speed) didn't use a spacer. Can't pass comment on Sora (9).

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/105-5800/FH-5800.html

Afaik 8 speed is the only one that requires a spacer.

Just find the relevant hubs Shimano spec sheet and it should straighten up any queries. Do you have an exact model number of hub you are working on? Should be clearly printed on it.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD



Ban cars.

Re: Another free hub question
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2020, 04:39:39 pm »
I think I can answer one of your questions yoav:-
11 speed hubs are wider but you can put an 11 speed cassette on a 10 speed Shimano (and Hope) hub if you use a 34 tooth big cog on the cassette.
It's what I've done on 2 of my bikes and I quite like the lower gearing for steep hills; I'm running 50/34 and 11/34 on both of them.
FWIW, one is Ultegra 8020 on the Hope hubs and 105 7020 (I think; it's the new hydro disc variant) on old (~10 years ?) Shimano XT hubs.


Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Another free hub question
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2020, 08:20:07 pm »
8 & 9spd cassettes are the same width. 10 is .5mm narrower.

Freehubs for 8,9 & 10 spd are all the same width hence the need for a .5mm spacer.

Freehubs for 11spd need the 1.5mm spacer to run 8,9 or 10.

Unless you have a deep thread on the lockring you can't normally get an 11spd road cassette on the 8/9/10 freehub. I haven't tried an MTB group 11spd casette, it's not something that comes thru the door often...
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Another free hub question
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2020, 09:05:39 pm »
what about a 1.85mm spacer, that is designed to be used with a 10sp cassette on a 11sp freehub?

ime, there might be small differences between cassettes from different manufacturers too, requiring some fine-tuning if you want to swap wheelsets and maintain good shifting.

Re: Another free hub question
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2020, 10:13:58 pm »
Can someone fill me in regarding Shimano (and compatible) freehubs and cassettes - the normal ones; steel, not alloy, not Dura Ace etc. So;

a) Are 8,9,10 speed freehubs are basically the same?
b) So 8 & 9 speed cassettes fit straight on?
c) 10 speed need a 0.5mm spacer?
d) 11 speed won't fit?

e) 11 speed Freehubs are wider than 10 speed so that to fit a 10 speed cassette needs a 1.5mm spacer?
f) What about 8 & 9 speed cassettes with an 11 speed freehub?

a) yes
b) yes
c) sometimes, sort of (**)
d) sometimes (*)
e) sometimes (*)
f) use a spacer as required

(*) Shimano ROAD 11s uses a longer '11s freehub body'. It is 1.85mm longer than the previous 8/9/10s freehub body, so whenever you fit a cassette that is meant for an 8/9/10s freehub body to one of these hubs (with an 11s road freehub body) you have to use a 1.85mm spacer, as indicated on the EV techdoc for all shimano 'road' 11s hubs.  All shimano 11s cassettes which use a bottom sprocket of 32 or smaller are 'road' type and only fit to the longer 11s 'road' freehub body.

However  shimano 11s 'MTB' cassettes use a different offset/overhang on the bottom sprocket and these fit to a standard 8/9/10s freehub body. Any shimano 11s cassette which uses a large sprocket 36T or bigger is a MTB cassette.

The complication in all this is cassettes which use a 34T large sprocket.  Until recently you would expect these to be 'MTB' cassettes because shimano 'road' RDs would only accept 32T bottom sprockets. But they recently changed them so that 11s road RDs can use a 34T bottom sprocket. Currently they make two 11s cassettes (CS-HG700-11 and CS-HG800-11, both in 11-34 11s only) which are nominally part of the 105 and Ultegra groupsets respectively and these are oddball 'road' 11s cassettes because these have the shorter length to fit  8/9/10s freehubs, and indeed come with a 1.85mm spacer so that they can be fitted to the 'road' 11s freehub body.   

This means if you don't want anything different to a 34T bottom cog then you can run 'road' 11s using older shimano hubs with an 8/9/10s freehub body.

(**) some shimano 10s cassettes (eg CS-6600) which use a carrier for the largest sprockets use a different offset on the bottom sprocket and come with a (0.9mm or 1.0mm) spacer. This spacer should be regarded as part of the cassette, because the cassette won't fit to any standard length freehub body without it.  If you try to use a thinner (eg 0.5mm) spacer or no spacer instead, the smallest sprocket can bottom out on the end of the freehub body and the sprockets won't be properly secure: much 'biting' ensues.   Cassettes without a carrier such as CS-4600-10 and CS-HG500-10 do not require a spacer and fit directly to standard 8/9/10s freehub bodies.

NB some aftermarket wheels have never had standard length freehub bodies, e.g. Mavic 10s freehub bodies were longer than the shimano standard and these often accept shimano 'road' 11s cassettes. There are probably other anomalies too.

Just when I'm getting the hang of this shimano and others are changing the freehub bodies again, mostly  it seems so that you can use a 10T sprocket. Well, Mr Shimano, I didn't really feel the need for a 12T sprocket, and most of the 11T sprockets I have ever bought have ended up in the bin having served no useful purpose whatsoever.  So I do not regard this as anything i could describe as 'progress'... ::-)

cheers

Re: Another free hub question
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2020, 10:45:57 pm »
I think the purpose of 10 tooth sprockets is to allow the use of 40 or 42 tooth single chainrings. (Obviously, sorry) 40:10 is the same as 52:13 and 42:10 not dissimilar to 52:12. Given Dr Ferrari’s website is 53x12 I’m not sure who really needs 50 or 52 x 11.

It’s not about being weak either - the road bike has 52/36 rings and I’m happyish climbing North Yorkshire on the bottom end of 11-28. I still don’t need the 11 or 12 really. Losing the the 11 and 12 from a Shimano cassette opens up closer gearing and the ability to add a 32 or 34 if you want.

Re: Another free hub question
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2020, 10:31:20 am »
Thanks for the info. The reason for asking is because I have a bike with a set of wheels with Hope Pro 3 hubs onto which I had fitted a 10 speed Shimano cassette some years ago. I no longer use these wheels on that bike so I was wondering on which of my other bikes of various vintages I could use the wheels. I had read somewhere that these hubs were not compatible with 11 speed cassettes. However, reading the above, I decided to try and fit a 11 speed (11-34) Shimano 105 cassette and to my surprise, it fitted the freehub and the lockring was easy to do up. Haven't tried them on a bike yet but hopefully (no pun intended) it will work.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Re: Another free hub question
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2020, 10:55:28 am »
the only thing to watch out for is that the RH hub flange is a bit closer to the largest sprocket when using an 11s cassette of this sort on a 10s freehub body.  This results in a greater chance of contact between the RD and the spokes.  Indeed I have seen a nice 11s setup of this type on a bike where one spoke did touch the RD with every turn of the wheel; it turned out that a spoke had been replaced without the crossings being braced and this was enough to make a difference.

  If the clearance is small then you really need to keep on top of the RD adjustment; without suitable vigilance the stop screws in the mech tend to wear and allow the RD to move ever further, and of course there is always a chance of the RD getting a knock.

OTOH on a 130mm OLN wheelset with aero spokes the clearance was still relatively generous.  The aero spokes are 'worth' about 1mm more clearance.

cheers