Author Topic: Shifter front /rear brake orientation?  (Read 1402 times)

Re: Shifter front /rear brake orientation?
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2020, 11:01:23 am »
There’s an idea some people have that touching the front brake will send you straight over the handlebars. Considering the lack of effectiveness of the brakes on most BSOs (and therefore most bikes), I’m not really sure how this myth was born and how it persists.

Aided by some pedestrians I tested that theory going down White Horse Bank.  What actually happens is your rear wheel starts to slide round and take the lead.  The same can happen on a motorbike. 

My best bit of braking was with cantis.  A car driver pulled out in front of me forcing a hard stop.  At some point I realised I had control and ensured that my front wheel stopped about a centimetre before striking the driver's door.  The expression on the driver's face I will never forget ;D
Sic transit and all that..

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Shifter front /rear brake orientation?
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2020, 01:23:53 pm »
Which for you start from is only an issue when you go on a tandem.

Luckily the only two people I've ridden with have used the same for as me, so not been an issue.

Being able to start with either foot is useful here.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Shifter front /rear brake orientation?
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2020, 01:41:41 pm »

Weak brakes on bikes rarely cause problems, especially at low speeds, and with riders who are aware of how their brakes perform.

What does cause crashes and injuries is powerful brakes which lock up a wheel.

V brake levers on children's or utility bikes sometimes have pivots specifically to reduce the effectiveness of the brakes, I presume, for safety reasons.

When I first started commuting here I stopped for a red light, doing so with what I thought was plenty of distance behind me for people to stop. I didn't take into account how shit their brakes were, or that they would be so surprised by me stopping. Got rear ended by a group of 5 people on Dutch BSO's...

Wouldn't have been an issue if I'd had shit brakes like them, as you say, but as I had really good brakes in the form of my Brompton rim brakes... comparatively really good at least...

On the front brake vs rear brake thing. Riding a old Brompton, that doesn't have the frame clip, if I slam the front brake on, the bike folds up, which is scary.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Shifter front /rear brake orientation?
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2020, 01:49:19 pm »
Similar danger with riding recumbents in London: You can inadvertently out-brake the road-warrior commuter sitting in your blind spot (not uncommonly your nearside blind spot) and hoping to jump the red light.

Unless it's an emergency, I tend to ride in city traffic as if I've got someone on a road bike following me (avoiding potholes and hard braking).  It's just safer.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Shifter front /rear brake orientation?
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2020, 02:22:06 pm »
Recumbent brakes can be awesome; if the CoG is in the right place the braking potential is vast and with the right brakes it can be exploited too. A year or so ago I happened upon a recumbent rider on his new tadpole machine.  His previous machine (also with 20" front wheels) had 70mm SA drums, he told me. He'd test ridden discs as well as drums in both 70mm  and 90mm sizes and had settled on the 90mm drums for the new machine.  IME SA drum brakes take a long time to bed in fully and his brakes were not yet bedded in; despite this the brakes were clearly very powerful indeed.

Just for fun he demonstrated the brakes and I used my (pretty average) brakes on my upright. I stopped in a normal distance and didn't quite manage to throw myself over the bars. He stopped in less than 1/3 the distance without any trouble. In fact, even with the brakes not bedded in yet, he had so much power that he could lift the rear wheel and potentially mash the front mast (and his feet) into the tarmac.  Having seen that, I am of the view that on such machines, once bedded in, 70mm SA brakes are probably 'plenty'.  Even with those, few other vehicles would be able to pull up as quickly.

With just a single coaster brake on the rear wheel, yer typical Dutch bike will be lucky to manage a 0.25 or 0.35G stop. Most uprights with a front and rear brake will manage a 0.5G stop, maybe more, up to about 0.75G  if conditions are favourable. On a good recumbent the braking potential is limited only by tyre grip so ~1.25G with half decent tyres is possible. Better yet if the brakes have a) good cold 'bite' and b) the back end comes up slowly enough (for you to react to it), you can slam the brakes on full bore instantly and this really shortens the stopping distance. 

cheers

Re: Shifter front /rear brake orientation?
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2020, 11:15:36 pm »
Japan has been driving on the left since before significant Western contact and many centuries before cars. Indonesia drives on the left for the same reason as Suriname, Mozambique etc. Former colonies maintaining the ways abandoned by the colonisers. Come to that we could investigate the brake-hand customs of pre-WWII bikes in Central Europe.

But Mozambique was portuguese. Which side do they drive on? Is it the same in Angola? (Or do they all really drive in the middle of the road? ??? )

Re: Shifter front /rear brake orientation?
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2020, 10:43:52 am »
Portugal was itself RHD (LH traffic, LHT) until 1928, along with all its colonies. Mozambique stayed LHT presumably because of the land borders with other LHT countries.

There is a good wiki page on this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-_and_right-hand_traffic

which suggests that LHT became institutionalised in Japan because of (British engineered) railways and then trams.

cheers

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Shifter front /rear brake orientation?
« Reply #57 on: May 14, 2020, 11:32:42 am »
Japan has been driving on the left since before significant Western contact and many centuries before cars. Indonesia drives on the left for the same reason as Suriname, Mozambique etc. Former colonies maintaining the ways abandoned by the colonisers. Come to that we could investigate the brake-hand customs of pre-WWII bikes in Central Europe.

But Mozambique was portuguese. Which side do they drive on? Is it the same in Angola? (Or do they all really drive in the middle of the road? ??? )
Portugal drove on the left. As did Spain and Italy – but only some parts. AFAIK it was the whole of Portugal. Just as well France never had these regional variations; I'm trying to imagine what would happen to PBP riders having to remember which side of the road to ride on at 4a.m....
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...