Author Topic: COVID19 and Audax UK  (Read 22668 times)

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #300 on: August 01, 2020, 08:00:47 am »
...

Where CTT have already done that thinking and drafted rules for how people will stay apart. AUK are only just starting to maybe think about thinking about it. That's the complaint you should be making.
Haha!

You might find that this point was made quite some time ago - both on official channels and the less formal (like this one).
Will you back this complaint?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #301 on: August 01, 2020, 08:08:07 am »
I really do try to not get involved with AUK politics but, as I’ve said before, other branches of cycle sport are working hard towards getting people back out and AUK are actively finding ways to prevent it.

Rob, if you could see the huge amount of work that the board, and in particular Graeme Provan our General Secretary, is doing behind the scenes to ensure we can restart, you might take a different view.

Martin

I was at a social with Graeme for a few hours just over a week ago.  We didn’t discuss anything about this subject, though.

ETA - Just because someone is working really hard does not mean I have to agree with their conclusions.  As an AUK member of nearly 28 years I have a right to challenge what is being presented.
Quite right. And we all have a right to challenge restrictions being put on us by persons who think they know best, without discussion. We elected these people to facilitate cycling long distances - not to make up rules to stop us doing so.

I doubt Graeme would be happy with me following him around the supermarket, office, bathroom and making demands about his social distancing and hygiene measures.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #302 on: August 01, 2020, 08:12:32 am »

In that scenario the insurance was invalid and they broke the law, no pay out and potential immediate cancellation of AUKs insurance with all that entails.
If they hadn't crashed AUK would have been none the wiser.


As I've been saying for several months, this is no different to rides pre-pandemic, and the many bad/silly things that riders might do while AUK is not holding their hands.
Do you have an answer yet?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #303 on: August 01, 2020, 08:25:56 am »
When you say you need to be able to prove that riders didn't congregate at any point round the route, what standard of proof do you need? 

AUK need to set up a scientific commission pronto to investigate the possibility of riders using quantum tunnelling to illicitly meet each other on the ride.

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #304 on: August 01, 2020, 10:13:50 am »
I feel the issue could be resolved by cyclists having number plates, paying road tax and staying on cycle paths.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #305 on: August 01, 2020, 10:53:45 am »
I feel the issue could be resolved by cyclists having number plates, paying road tax and staying on cycle paths.
;D

There are very few problems that wouldn't be cured by road tax for cyclists.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #306 on: August 01, 2020, 12:17:48 pm »
I understood from Chris Crossland's 17th June update to AUK members that we can do DIY from today, but https://www.aukweb.net/forms/entryformdiy.php not yet available - anyone got info?

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #307 on: August 01, 2020, 12:22:41 pm »

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #308 on: August 01, 2020, 01:28:28 pm »

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #309 on: August 01, 2020, 04:41:56 pm »

In that scenario the insurance was invalid and they broke the law, no pay out and potential immediate cancellation of AUKs insurance with all that entails.
If they hadn't crashed AUK would have been none the wiser.


As I've been saying for several months, this is no different to rides pre-pandemic, and the many bad/silly things that riders might do while AUK is not holding their hands.
Do you have an answer yet?

Because if complaints are made by the public about cyclists taking part in cycling events at this time, the government will contact British Cycling (as NGB) and ask "WTF is going on here"

Every time there's hints of an issue with the football restart up here, Jason Leech is quoted as saying "We've looked at what they're doing and I don't see a problem at this time"
That translates to, "What we've agreed with the SFA is being adhered to, if they were not doing so Professional football is off"

It would also kiss AUKs wish to be NGB for long distance cycling and therefore no longer hamstrung by British Cycling's narrow UCI restricted image of cycling goodbye if the cyclists they represent were to be taking the piss and pissing people off at a time of heightened sensitivities.

Also the legal situation is upside down, we're only allowed to do things that the Coronavirus Act allows, and thanks to the (limited) work British Cycling have done, right now it's allowing cycling in small groups. It's not actually allowing any events (because BC don't give a toss about Audax, and DIYs and Perms can be presented as group rides within the bounds of the rules agreed).

I Agree with the people that say there are other ways it could be done to ensure BC's agreements with the governments aren't breached while allowing greater participation.

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #310 on: August 01, 2020, 06:40:08 pm »
You need to log in via the new site:
https://audax.uk/choose-a-ride/do-it-yourself-diy-events/
Interestingly I can also select 300km for diy (but no longer distances).

Decided to play it safe and do a 200. Finished a few hours ago  :thumbsup:

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #311 on: August 01, 2020, 06:42:59 pm »

In that scenario the insurance was invalid and they broke the law, no pay out and potential immediate cancellation of AUKs insurance with all that entails.
If they hadn't crashed AUK would have been none the wiser.


As I've been saying for several months, this is no different to rides pre-pandemic, and the many bad/silly things that riders might do while AUK is not holding their hands.
Do you have an answer yet?

Because if complaints are made by the public about cyclists taking part in cycling events at this time, the government will contact British Cycling (as NGB) and ask "WTF is going on here"

Every time there's hints of an issue with the football restart up here, Jason Leech is quoted as saying "We've looked at what they're doing and I don't see a problem at this time"
That translates to, "What we've agreed with the SFA is being adhered to, if they were not doing so Professional football is off"

It would also kiss AUKs wish to be NGB for long distance cycling and therefore no longer hamstrung by British Cycling's narrow UCI restricted image of cycling goodbye if the cyclists they represent were to be taking the piss and pissing people off at a time of heightened sensitivities.

Also the legal situation is upside down, we're only allowed to do things that the Coronavirus Act allows, and thanks to the (limited) work British Cycling have done, right now it's allowing cycling in small groups. It's not actually allowing any events (because BC don't give a toss about Audax, and DIYs and Perms can be presented as group rides within the bounds of the rules agreed).

I Agree with the people that say there are other ways it could be done to ensure BC's agreements with the governments aren't breached while allowing greater participation.

The first rule of catastrophising: if what you've written can be construed as catastrophising, it's very probably wrong and should automatically be ignored.

Here is some helpful advice about catastrophising.

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #312 on: August 01, 2020, 06:49:35 pm »

In that scenario the insurance was invalid and they broke the law, no pay out and potential immediate cancellation of AUKs insurance with all that entails.
If they hadn't crashed AUK would have been none the wiser.


As I've been saying for several months, this is no different to rides pre-pandemic, and the many bad/silly things that riders might do while AUK is not holding their hands.
Do you have an answer yet?

Because if complaints are made by the public about cyclists taking part in cycling events at this time, the government will contact British Cycling (as NGB) and ask "WTF is going on here"

Every time there's hints of an issue with the football restart up here, Jason Leech is quoted as saying "We've looked at what they're doing and I don't see a problem at this time"
That translates to, "What we've agreed with the SFA is being adhered to, if they were not doing so Professional football is off"

It would also kiss AUKs wish to be NGB for long distance cycling and therefore no longer hamstrung by British Cycling's narrow UCI restricted image of cycling goodbye if the cyclists they represent were to be taking the piss and pissing people off at a time of heightened sensitivities.

Also the legal situation is upside down, we're only allowed to do things that the Coronavirus Act allows, and thanks to the (limited) work British Cycling have done, right now it's allowing cycling in small groups. It's not actually allowing any events (because BC don't give a toss about Audax, and DIYs and Perms can be presented as group rides within the bounds of the rules agreed).

I Agree with the people that say there are other ways it could be done to ensure BC's agreements with the governments aren't breached while allowing greater participation.
BC have been running beginners rides for up to a 100 setting of in groups of 6 since 4th July.  By their rules it was allowed from 18th June, they just were not ready. They have also said club runs are fine as long as you break up into 6s.  AUKs 6 people per 200km seems an unreasonable interpretation of the rules. There is absolutely nothing in BC or govt guidance about restricting the length of rides. If there is a complaint to govt that people are cycling then the govt response will be to take credit saying that the repair voucher scheme is working.

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #313 on: August 01, 2020, 07:03:38 pm »
Also the legal situation is upside down, we're only allowed to do things that the Coronavirus Act allows,
I don’t think this is the case anymore, certainly in England. The original coronavirus act said you must not leave your house apart from for a limited set of reasons. This was indeed unusual in law in that instead of forbidding specific things it banned everything and listed what you could do. The current act works in the normal way, listing the things that are prohibited- such as going to casinos and gathering in groups of more than 6.

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #314 on: August 01, 2020, 09:19:11 pm »
So no using casinos at controls on perms folks. It’d be a bit of a gamble and the stakes are high.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #315 on: August 02, 2020, 08:19:03 am »
Mr  Eejit:
Do you think AUK (and organisers) never received complaints from the public before all this?

You're talking nonsense - worryingly, it seems to be in line with the AUK board approach. It's all just panic! panic! Stay at home under a table! Just in case!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #316 on: August 02, 2020, 09:49:07 am »
AUK are actively finding ways to prevent it.

What utter nonsense.  If anything AUK have been trying hard to get us back riding again while fulfilling the changing requirements from all the constituent governments that make up the "UK" bit of "Audax UK" - and as we see up north those requirements can change overnight.

Anyway, you can ride all you like, AUK are only saying that they wouldn't validate your attempts.

I rode my first Perm yesterday as part of the restart, but I take my responsibilities to myself, my family, my work colleagues, the wider community, and even to you, seriously.  I carried all my food and drink that I would otherwise purchase out on the route, I included hand gel and face mask in my saddle bag, and I chose not to stop at any café, petrol station or shop - where I would have had to queue and lose time anyway.  I had a wonderful ride!  I thank AUK for encouraging me to resume my activities.

I have to tell you that if AUK were to permit Calendar Events from tomorrow, I would not take them up on it.  I'm not yet ready to implement the measures needed to allow mass participation events.  I've got a 600 on the Calendar for mid August and I just shudder to think what it would take to put on such an undertaking at the moment.

You may well be an Event Organiser yourself and be prepared to put on something that did not encourage the spread of what some people might still think of as a trivial disease (surely there can't be such people still around?) but I am not.  AUK are not stopping me, my common sense is.  Perhaps common sense is not so common after all.

Terry2wheelz

  • terry2wheelz
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #317 on: August 02, 2020, 10:00:44 am »
 :thumbsup:
100% agree with D.C's well made point.

Fatter Riders Bounce Better :-) !

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #318 on: August 02, 2020, 10:01:24 am »
You can (and ideally should) use those risk minimisation measures during a 600km DIY by GPS, except that AUK will not validate it. Why not?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #319 on: August 02, 2020, 11:26:20 am »
AUK are actively finding ways to prevent it.


Anyway, you can ride all you like, AUK are only saying that they wouldn't validate your attempts.


Because validation of the ride would contribute to the spread of the virus ?

Since the announcement many weeks ago now that exercise could be unlimited in duration I have been riding long distances. I have been encouraging other cyclists to cycle longer distances. I am however no longer encouraging them to join AUK as there seems little point.

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #320 on: August 02, 2020, 12:58:30 pm »
Over the years I've done 600k DIY's where I've done x2 300k loops with a few hours in my own bed at home, on the ride I've picked up my ATM receipts & had no contact with anyone, I'd have thought this would be allowed as it's no danger to me or anybody else. Since the Lockdown I've been doing Race at your pace rides & received some lovely medals for my efforts, I'm talking short rides accumulating to 200 miles per month & it's given me an incentive to get out & keep healthy, I can recommend it to anyone who feels frustrated being stuck behind the pace car waiting for the flag to drop.

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #321 on: August 02, 2020, 06:07:45 pm »
I have done 2 300k rides and a 400k one in the last couple of weeks.  On today’s perm 200k I visited 2 petrol stations and a coffee shop, wearing a mask and observing the shops rules.

The pubs are open, the beaches are full and people are going on holiday.  Am I being told that my bike ride is selfish and puts others at risk ?  If so, it’s twaddle.

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #322 on: August 02, 2020, 06:09:11 pm »
AUK are actively finding ways to prevent it.


Anyway, you can ride all you like, AUK are only saying that they wouldn't validate your attempts.


Because validation of the ride would contribute to the spread of the virus ?

Since the announcement many weeks ago now that exercise could be unlimited in duration I have been riding long distances. I have been encouraging other cyclists to cycle longer distances. I am however no longer encouraging them to join AUK as there seems little point.

^^^^^^

This

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #323 on: August 04, 2020, 08:32:06 pm »
AUK are actively finding ways to prevent it.

What utter nonsense.  If anything AUK have been trying hard to get us back riding again while fulfilling the changing requirements from all the constituent governments that make up the "UK" bit of "Audax UK" - and as we see up north those requirements can change overnight.

Anyway, you can ride all you like, AUK are only saying that they wouldn't validate your attempts.
I'd say that's pretty close to discouraging riding, even if they aren't exactly preventing it! Seems a long way from the mission statement of "promoting long distance cycling". Seems like "you can ride a long way, but not as part of an AUK event."

Mike, "common sense" says ride according to the laws and the guidelines. I don't know why you think that members wanting to ride validated events have less "common sense" than you; do you have inside knowledge of epidemic management? I rode 199km quite near to you in late July - I was entirely within the law, and used common sense to adhere to COVID guidelines. What makes you think I did not?

Is it "common sense" to ride no more than 220km under AUK conditions? Care to explain why (to us dunces)?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: COVID19 and Audax UK
« Reply #324 on: August 05, 2020, 10:20:15 am »
This is a bit dire!

I'm going to do a long ride in Scotland on my own in a couple of weeks, to salvage something from my season.  I thought I might set it up as a DIY, but I've read the last few pages, and clearly not.  Audax UK appears to have lost the plot!