Author Topic: London bridges bike and bus only  (Read 915 times)

London bridges bike and bus only
« on: June 19, 2020, 09:30:00 am »
Seen on Twitter. London Bridge and Westminster Bridge to be bus/cycle and electric taxi only

https://www.london.gov.uk/city-hall-blog/five-sustainable-ways-were-helping-get-london-moving

I welcome Westminster bridge - iti is a nice route.
I am really puzzled by London Bridge and I am not sure I support that - London Bridge is clearly a very ancient route,
and as such is heavily used because it links key points  the route up the A10 north and down south to the Elephant and Castle.
I dont really support closing this bridge.

Me, I much prefer going over Southwark Bridge - nice bridge and going North you drop onto the segregated superhighway west along the Embankment.
It would be even better if you could get up onto the bridge from Park street - the low level street which parallels th eriver between Borough Market at the Tate.





Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2020, 09:50:32 am »
It's Waterloo bridge rather than Westminster, isn't it?

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2020, 09:55:29 am »
Yes. The tweet said Westminster bridge. I cycled over there on Wednesday.

TO be honest again I think closing Waterloo bridge is foolish.
I would much rather it be Westminster.  There is not a hugge colume of motor traffic over Westmisnter,
and int he current layout going north you end up ina one way system round Parliament square.
If Westminster was closed that woudl eb a pleasant bike route. For motor traffic there is a good alternative at Lambeth Bridge.

Sorry to say it - closing London and Waterloo bridges, which are rather brutalist concrete structures is not what I would choose.
The more pleasant Southwark and Westminster bridges - yes.




Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2020, 09:56:10 am »
London Bridge is having major maintenance this year and one side is closed and dug up. It's been bus, bike and putputput coughcoughcough taxi only since before all this began.

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2020, 10:21:03 am »
I think Waterloo bridge has one of the best views and cycling over it will be improved by having fewer motors. It's got that very useful bit at the north end where you can get into Covent Garden, pedestrians allowing, and it will also be easier for more nervous/inexperienced cyclists to get into position to go straight on at that point.

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2020, 10:50:32 am »
Bridge choice aside, I guess the Transport for London plan is to keep as much motor traffic as possible on the ring road round the congestion zone.
So Tower Bridge to the East and I think Vauxhall Bridge to the West.
To the South thats th Elephant and Castle an to the North I think the Euston road.
There is a huge area inside that if you think about it.

I further guess with no real insight, thet the aim is to stop motor traffic crossing this zone - ie . if you have to drive into the zone there are ways,
but the aim is to keep cross traffic out.
Your thoughts please.


citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2020, 10:53:53 am »
Waterloo is a big, wide bridge and connects to major routes at both ends. I can't help thinking that closing it would simply move the problems elsewhere rather than solving them. The junction at the north end of Waterloo Bridge needs work - it has already been improved somewhat in recent years with changed priorities and phasing of the lights to benefit cyclists, but there's still plenty of room for further improvement.

The ones I would close would be Southwark (but keep Blackfriars and London open either side of it), and Tower, which is too narrow and permanently clogged.

Looking at Google Maps, it seems they have already made significant improvements (since I last used it) to CS7 south of the river between Southwark Bridge and E&C, which is good. Closing Southwark Bridge instead of London Bridge would be a further improvement.

I would also reconfigure the north end of Southwark Bridge so it goes over Lower Thames St rather than connecting to it. But that's wishful thinking.

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2020, 10:55:07 am »
By the way, on an unrelated note the segregates cycle track on Jamaice Road is being completed this week.
The section which is opened already is quite pelaseant. Work stopped on it during Covid so we had a mostly complete track with sections cordoned off with barriers.

I DO have one big criticism of this cycle route - which I articulated to TfL at a public consultation.
At the Brunel Roundabout the track turns right and basically ends. To go South you have to cross Lower Road by oghts and get back ont he road.
There is absolutely no decent route to go across the roundabotu and join Albion Street at the Norwegian Church.
Why do you want to do that?  IT is a natural line of desire - Albion street is quiet, and it joins Narional Cycle route 4.
So you could cycle from Tower Bridge, along Jamaica Road then cross the roundabout to join NCN4. All separated from motor traffic.
But Oh No.. you dont wanna do that. The only way is to cross Jamaica road by the lights to the north, then use zebra crossings to get across the Tunnel entrance.
This is idiocy - why no rouet across the roundabout?

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2020, 10:57:08 am »
Waterloo is a big, wide bridge and connects to major routes at both ends.
Agreed with what you say.
However Tower Bridge is the route outside the congestion zone - the zone skirts the bridge, but you can get over outside the zone.

I agree it would be a perfect cycling route - the solution to me would be to move the congestion zoone in to London Bridge though.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2020, 11:01:37 am »
However Tower Bridge is the route outside the congestion zone - the zone skirts the bridge, but you can get over outside the zone.

There's also Rotherhithe, though I've heard they're planning to introduce tolls there and at Blackwall, which would be an interesting move.

Sod 'em - let's do it. I have no qualms about making it more difficult for private car drivers to cross the river without paying.

ETA: I'll be perfectly honest, I've not really thought this through and there may well be all kinds of problems/unintended consequences with my suggestions! I don't cross the river by bike very often these days.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2020, 11:36:09 am »
You've been beaten by the provinces, as usual*. Closure of Bristol Bridge** to private motor vehicles announced a month or so ago.

*Obvious untruth.
**Bristol means 'The bridge over the marshy place' so Bristol Bridge in Bristol gets a bit recursive...
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2020, 12:25:07 pm »
There is absolutely no decent route to go across the roundabotu and join Albion Street at the Norwegian Church.
Why do you want to do that?  IT is a natural line of desire - Albion street is quiet, and it joins Narional Cycle route 4.
So you could cycle from Tower Bridge, along Jamaica Road then cross the roundabout to join NCN4. All separated from motor traffic.

You could take Brunel Road and join Albion Street after the tunnel entrance.

The medium term intention is to continue the segregated route south all the way to Greenwich. The bit after the roundabout was in a separate consultation because of possible redevelopment in Surrey Quays, including undoing the one way system. Not sure what the construction schedule for the Surrey Quays - Greenwich bit is, which has been consulted.

TfL have a scorched earth approach to their cycle network. NCN routes don't exist - unless they decide to take them over. And in this instance the wiggly Thames Path route isn't particularly suitable as a transport route.

(although there are other parts of their network where they have incorporated similar routes they really shouldn't)

cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2020, 12:54:45 pm »
You could take Brunel Road and join Albion Street after the tunnel entrance.

If you ignore the stupid cross-over at Southwark Park Road and use the lovely wide bus lane up to the tunnel you don't have to re-cross Jamaica Rd either.

Southwark Bridge has a direct connection to Upper Thames Street (except for eastbound motor vehicles) and will aleviate some traffic from Tower Bridge, and as Rotherhithe is closed to vans and high vehicles, it puts more traffic on to Tower Bridge.






I Said, I've Got A Big Stick

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2020, 01:15:34 pm »
Southwark Bridge has a direct connection to Upper Thames Street (except for eastbound motor vehicles) and will aleviate some traffic from Tower Bridge, and as Rotherhithe is closed to vans and high vehicles, it puts more traffic on to Tower Bridge.

I was going to say "there's still the ramp down to Upper Thames St from the north end of London Bridge", but apparently there isn't!

Where's the sense in getting rid of that?

(ETA: I suppose it's to stop motor traffic crossing the UTS cycle lane, maybe?)

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2020, 01:22:10 pm »
Where's the sense in getting rid of that?

If you mean the one west of the bridge, that road has been commandeered as a construction compound for the Bank station upgrade works, again long before any of this started.

It has a full signalised crossing with the cycle track, which still has its normal light phasing.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2020, 01:27:23 pm »
If you mean the one west of the bridge, that road has been commandeered as a construction compound for the Bank station upgrade works, again long before any of this started.

Yes, that's the one... so it might be restored after the work is finished? (Is it not finished yet?)

And is Monument Street still open to traffic on the other side?

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2020, 01:38:57 pm »
Yes, that's the one... so it might be restored after the work is finished? (Is it not finished yet?)

It's like a 10 year project to build more-or-less a new set of station tunnels around the existing one, so no.

Quote
And is Monument Street still open to traffic on the other side?

Yes, but is only accessible from the north.

cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2020, 04:40:22 pm »
I forgot about Arthur St it's been closed for so long.

This would explain why when I thought "what about making London Bridge and Tower Bridge one-way for motor vehicles?" I never came up with a decent route connecting the two northern ends.

(I'd let buses run two-way over London Bridge, and put some nice wide cycle lanes over Tower, keep motor vehicles single file)
I Said, I've Got A Big Stick

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2020, 06:23:44 pm »
If the aim is to reduce car/van/lorry use then closing off the busiest bridges, ie London Bridge and Waterloo Bridge, can only be a good thing.


Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2020, 06:54:47 pm »
On the subject of non-car bridges, Richmond council have submitted a bid for government funding for a walking and cycling bridge between Twickenham and Ham.

This is an architect’s website, chosen as I like their images of a possible design. I have no idea if they are the chosen architects or if it has even got that far.

https://www.mcdanielwoolf.co.uk/radnor-bridge/

That would make a commute from Twickers and points south and west of there into town much more agreeable. Straight over the bridge and across to Ham Gate, across the park, and that would bypass all of Richmond and bloody Sheen.





Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2020, 09:02:58 pm »
On the subject of pedestrian/cycling bridges the bridge between Rotherhithe and Canary Wharf has been shelved.
The plan now is a frequent ferry service across the river with some sort of automatic docking and a roll on/roll off system.

Andrij

  • Андрій
  • Ερασιτεχνικός μισάνθρωπος
Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2020, 10:27:49 am »
I've long been in favour of closing Westminster Bridge to motor vehicles on weekends, or at least Sundays.
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2020, 10:40:29 am »
Yes. and if the ridiculous barriers into County Hall would be opened up there would be a lovely route off Westmisnter bridge and along Upper Ground behind the South Bank.
I know you can cycle through there - but the ridiculous barriers are planned to make it seem like you cannot.
There would be a lovely circular route for a Sunday along the banks of the Thames then back along Embankment.

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2020, 01:08:50 pm »
Unfortunately the landowner at County Hall (not the council) won’t allow the barriers to be opened to facilitate cycling.

Re: London bridges bike and bus only
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2020, 07:53:34 am »
Regarding barriers, the development where I live put up staggered gates on the Thames Path. Clearly designed to look like the path was closed off.
I wrote a stroppy complaint to Southwark Council that the gates / barriers were not Equalities Act compliant - not being wide enough to get a wheelchair through them.
That resulted in the Council officer acting and the gates got widened. Sadly not removed.
The ones at County Hall are a bit of a nightmare for wheelchairs too as I recall.