Author Topic: New gps  (Read 1705 times)

New gps
« on: June 20, 2020, 07:33:51 pm »
Hi all, I'm in the market for a decent cycle GPS. Looking at Satmap active 20 but seems to be so many different bundles I'm confused. All other makes considered. I don't need text alarms strava segments. I'll be using it for navigation only. I'm not good with high tech so simplicity a must. Please help. Thanks
Andy

Re: New gps
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2020, 08:12:37 pm »
I’ve not used it, but Garmin Edge Tour would appear to fit the bill?

I’ve got an Edge 1000 that works well, but think the Tour is a bit less expensive.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: New gps
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2020, 10:18:13 pm »
The Edge Touring doesn't exist anymore.  The current version is called the Edge Explore.

Re: New gps
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2020, 10:31:11 pm »
If you have a smartphone you already have one.  If you don't then a low cost smartphone with a big battery and gps is a much better investment than a cycling specific gps.  Its not compulsory to put a sim in a smartphone.  You **CAN** just use it as a small mobile computer.  No one will complain.  And you get much much much better bang for your buck.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: New gps
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2020, 03:39:07 pm »
If you have a smartphone you already have one.  If you don't then a low cost smartphone with a big battery and gps is a much better investment than a cycling specific gps.  Its not compulsory to put a sim in a smartphone.  You **CAN** just use it as a small mobile computer.  No one will complain.  And you get much much much better bang for your buck.

I'd question this if you ever ride in the rain... Or in really bright sunlight... Or want to use some sensors...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: New gps
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2020, 03:43:38 pm »
I think we need to determine what the OP means by 'navigation'.  Drawing a map with a you are here arrow, calculating a route from your current location to a destination and telling you what to do at each junction, or following a pre-planned route for eg. an audax.  Different devices are better at some of these than others.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: New gps
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2020, 03:53:10 pm »
The Garmin Edge Touring was the reason Garmin lost me for good. I’ve been a Wahooligan ever since.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: New gps
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2020, 03:55:24 pm »
The Garmin Edge Touring was the reason Garmin lost me for good. I’ve been a Wahooligan ever since.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

^^ so it's a good thing it doesn't exist anymore.  How about keeping this thread to current models?

Re: New gps
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2020, 04:37:50 pm »
The SatMap 20 runs Ordnance Survey maps. If you want simplicity, that's hard to beat.

It doesn't do routing. You can load a gpx track onto it which you can then follow. It's also possible (but quite tedious) to create a track on the machine (which you can then follow). When following a track there's no clever beeps or indicators letting you know there's a turn coming, you just have to make sure the dot on the map (you) follows the blue line.
Rust never sleeps

Re: New gps
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2020, 06:42:38 pm »
Quote
I'd question this if you ever ride in the rain... Or in really bright sunlight... Or want to use some sensors...

I've been using a smartphone for navigating and other data, including cadence and heart rate, since 2013 when I gave up on my Bryton 50 (That includes one Audax season where I managed a Double Rtty - 2 x 200/300km x 12).  They work.  If its raining I just use a plastic bag over the phone.  A battery pack with replaceable 16850 batteries gives me all the power I need if I'm riding longer than 100km.  Your preferences may differ to mine.

Re: New gps
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2020, 08:47:08 pm »
Thanks for the replies.
I should have been clearer re navigation.
I just want something for following fox for Audax. I usually follow routsheets and get lost occasionally.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: New gps
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2020, 09:18:20 pm »
Yeah we got you the first time.  Your two main players are Wahoo and Garmin.

A lot of people like Wahoo's ease of use when it comes to loading routes onto your device: you can draw or download a route on your laptop/phone and load it straight onto the device, which makes mid-ride route changes easy.  The mapping isn't quite as good as Garmin though, and you'll either have to pay £300 for their latest and greatest model (the Elemnt Roam) or buy an Elemnt Bolt, which has a tiny screen. 

The Garmin Edge 530 is Garmin's latest midrange model, is basically the same as their flagship 830 (but lacks some of the training stuff you don't need) and is £225 on Amazon.  Alternatively the Edge Explore has had a lot of the extra training-based stuff taken off it, it's got a bigger screen and it's cheaper at about £180.  It's touchscreen controlled though as opposed to the 530's buttons, and its battery life is shorter at about 12 hours to the 530's 20 hours. 

Which of those you want, only you can say.  I'd probably go for one of the Garmins if I were you, but  which you prefer will probably come down to how good your eyesight is, whether you like touchscreens and how much battery life you want.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: New gps
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2020, 09:36:06 pm »
Thanks for the replies.
I should have been clearer re navigation.
I just want something for following fox for Audax. I usually follow routsheets and get lost occasionally.

The word 'just' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

Most cycling or outdoor GPSes will allow you to overlay a line (usually a 'track', rarely a 'route' or a 'course') on the map for you to follow, and there are plenty of smartphone apps if you want to go down that route.  If you want turn-by-turn instructions to a destination (or sequence of destinations), many of the same units will do that too.  But turn-by-turn instructions following a pre-set route is surprisingly difficult to achieve, mainly due to a lack of imagination on the part of Garmin's software designers back in the early 2000s.

I'm saying this as expectation management.  It's possible, but it involves a learning curve and varying degrees of fucking around and pre-ride homework.  Success is measured in how often it sends you off route for no obvious reason.

More generally, the units that are good at daylight visibility and battery life tend to be bad at nice big screens and scrolling/zooming the map in a responsive manner.  (If you're set on using OS maps, that sort of thing becomes more important.)  I'll also note that OS maps, while undeniably lovely, aren't actually that good for making sense of complicated road junctions.

Personally, I use an eTrex on the bike for telling me what to do on a pre-planned ride (eg. audax) and recording where I've been, and an OS mapping app on a smartphone/tablet for making it up as I go along when touring or mountain biking.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: New gps
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2020, 09:53:15 pm »
...it involves a learning curve and varying degrees of fucking around and pre-ride homework...

I think this is the thing about GPS devices that people don't get.

Re: New gps
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2020, 10:03:16 pm »
Gulp, looks like a lot of pre ride work on pc  then. My Achilles heel.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: New gps
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2020, 10:19:20 pm »
Not necessarily.  If you're loading a route that an organiser has created for an audax, it's quite simple for modern Wahoos, and only a bit more involved for older Garmins - I haven't used the newer Garmins so can't speak for them, but I believe they're catching up with Wahoo.  For plotting routes it's easy as well as long as you only want the line on a map functionality. 

On my Wahoo, if I'm suddenly taken with the desire to go from place X to place Y, I do this:

1) I've already got free/cheap accounts with RideWithGPS and Komoot, and got one with the Wahoo app when I bought the device.  All these apps are logged into each other.
2) I whip out my phone and draw a route on the app of my choice (if it's a phone that'll be Komoot, or if it's at home it'll be RWGPS).
3) I open my Wahoo app where that route has automagically appeared.  I select to do the route and it appears on my device, complete with turn by turn instructions.

I don't know about the latest Garmin workflow but as I said, I don't think they're far behind.  If I were buying now I'd probably get an Edge 530 as the way they handle you if you go off route is a bit better than Wahoo.  The way I could do everything on a phone with Wahoo and didn't need a PC at alll was a real boon when I was doing a long tour though.

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: New gps
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2020, 10:40:12 pm »
...If you're loading a route that an organiser has created for an audax,...

And this is one of the areas where things can go to shit. Checking other people's routes is one of those learning curve activities  :thumbsup:

Re: New gps
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2020, 10:46:48 pm »
If you have a smartphone you already have one.  If you don't then a low cost smartphone with a big battery and gps is a much better investment than a cycling specific gps.  Its not compulsory to put a sim in a smartphone.  You **CAN** just use it as a small mobile computer.  No one will complain.  And you get much much much better bang for your buck.

I'd question this if you ever ride in the rain... Or in really bright sunlight... Or want to use some sensors...

J
Many of Samsungs smartphones from ~2017 are IP68 rated.  Pairing one of these with Oruxmaps gives you the option to connect with most ANT+ and BT sensors and enjoy the benefit of a highly legible display in all environments with minimal power consumption.  But, you do have to rtfm invest some time in learning how to get the best out of Oruxmaps.
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: New gps
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2020, 11:02:13 pm »
Many of Samsungs smartphones from ~2017 are IP68 rated.  Pairing one of these with Oruxmaps gives you the option to connect with most ANT+ and BT sensors and enjoy the benefit of a highly legible display in all environments with minimal power consumption.  But, you do have to rtfm invest some time in learning how to get the best out of Oruxmaps.

Do they maintain the same IP68 rating with a usb cable plugged in to charge them?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: New gps
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2020, 11:11:27 pm »
Many of Samsungs smartphones from ~2017 are IP68 rated.  Pairing one of these with Oruxmaps gives you the option to connect with most ANT+ and BT sensors and enjoy the benefit of a highly legible display in all environments with minimal power consumption.  But, you do have to rtfm invest some time in learning how to get the best out of Oruxmaps.

Do they maintain the same IP68 rating with a usb cable plugged in to charge them?

J
Of course the charging cable would need to have a similar rating, IP-68 mil-spec charging cables do exist but given the potential of a duty cycle of around 20 hours they shouldn't be needed.
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: New gps
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2020, 11:18:36 pm »
Of course the charging cable would need to have a similar rating, IP-68 mil-spec charging cables do exist but given the potential of a duty cycle of around 20 hours they shouldn't be needed.

A Samsung is waterproof and has 20 hours of battery life in full sun (so extra brightness of the screen) ? Tell me more...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: New gps
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2020, 11:37:49 pm »
Of course the charging cable would need to have a similar rating, IP-68 mil-spec charging cables do exist but given the potential of a duty cycle of around 20 hours they shouldn't be needed.

A Samsung is waterproof and has 20 hours of battery life in full sun (so extra brightness of the screen) ? Tell me more...

J
Using Oruxmaps in "night mode" in conjuction with an OLED display smartphone dramatically reduces battery consumption (thanks to Kim otp).  This provides a display much akin to the Whahoo Elemnt with the the map displayed in greyscale but in a much higher resolution and with the benefit of a bright multi-colour track defining the route and its gradients.  It's simple enough to configure a button on the Oruxmaps display to switch between night and day mode as needs dictate.  With the screen turned up to full brightness I've achieved 20 hours of constant navigation and high resolution track recording on a Samsung A3 set to flight mode with no other apps running except "GPS Status".  As an added bonus the A3s relatively small capacity battery charges very quickly when needed.
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

Re: New gps
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2020, 12:09:45 am »
Do they maintain the same IP68 rating with a usb cable plugged in to charge them?

All iPhones from the 7 onwards are waterproof (IP67 IIRC). My OLED 11 Pro gets 13 hours of battery life without any power saving measures beyond "dark mode" (i.e. white-on-black).

The Lightning port is waterproof (no cover) and if that gets too wet to use (which it can detect) it can charge via Qi. However due to the long battery life and magic of fast charging, I now charge opportunistically rather than continuously.

I can't think of any sensors that don't have a Bluetooth version.

None of this is of interest to the OP.

Re: New gps
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2020, 07:52:29 am »
The IP rating of a phone for cycling use is a bit of a red herring.   My experience is that a plastic bag does the job perfectly well, including charging if needed.

Re: New gps
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2020, 08:13:31 am »
If you do decide to use a smartphone should you have one, Quadlock do a superb range of mounts and cases including a cover to further prevent water ingress.  I use such a case with my Samsing Galaxy S9 phone attached to an armband mount when running.  mllePB has a stem mount on her bike for her phone though I don't think that she has ever used it.  I may be wrong.